Lion Air Flight JT610 plane crashes in Indonesia, 29 Oct 2018 *lawyer Tom Girardi charged in 2023 with defrauding victims*

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Justice101 said:
But if they did request permission to come back, I am guessing it was mechanical/electrical/fire/windshield related than an active deliberate fight in the cockpit.,
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I am still thinking the auto pilot is a possibility. Maybe….

Crew and auto pilot interact in a way crew is not used to. The crew cant quickly identify the problem. As a result, they get rattled and request permission to return. The crew then starts fighting the auto pilot and maybe each other over control of the plane.
 
MsFacetious said:
I think this will likely end up being another Air France 447 all over again. That one shows this can happen even without it being a low cost airline with an under trained crew. At least this one was quicker and found immediately. That is something for the families.

The Tragic Crash of Flight AF447 Shows the Unlikely but Catastrophic Consequences of Automation
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Good point about Air France. Even the best trained pilots can make fatal mistakes or be slow to react after automation starts to do contradictory things.

As a side note, Boeing's design philosophy is to force the pilots to more actively fly the plane. This does not mean that crew - auto pilot fights cannot occur. A crash in Russia involved such a fight and a new plane. But, Boeing feels that the increased risk of routine pilot error is worth the risk of too much reliance on automation.

Meanwhile Airbus is the opposite. Pilots are less actively involved and monitor systems more. Lower chance of routine pilot error, but higher chance of too much reliance on automation / cant react in time type crashes.
 
Cryptic said:
I am still thinking the auto pilot is a possibility. Maybe….

Crew and auto pilot interact in a way crew is not used to. The crew cant quickly identify the problem. As a result, they get rattled and request permission to return. The crew then starts fighting the auto pilot and maybe each other over control of the plane.
Click to expand...

Just like Air France. :eek:
 
LION Air flight JT 610 was only meant to take one hour from Jakarta to Pangkal Pinang.
Here’s how it unfolded yesterday. All times are in Jakarta local time:

6.20am: JT 610 takes off from Jakarta’s Soekarno-Hatta International Airport. Its arrival at Pangkal Pingang airport is scheduled for 7.20am.
6.23am: Pilot Bhavye Suneja asks air traffic control for permission to turn around and return to Jakarta airport. His request is approved.
6.33am: The aircraft loses contact with air traffic control at an altitude of only 1580 metres and plunges into coastal waters less than 35m deep in the Java Sea.
6.45am: The crew of a tugboat report to maritime authorities they have seen a downed plane, suspected to be a Lion Air plane, in the water. Vessels are dispatched to the area.
9.18am: Lion Air confirms it has lost contact with flight JT 610, The Associated Press reports. “We can confirm that one of our flights has lost contact,” Lion Air spokesman Danang Mandala Prihantoro says. “Its position cannot be ascertained yet.”

More on the following link:
The 13 minutes before tragedy struck Lion Air flight
 
MsFacetious said:
A technical log obtained by the BBC from the plane's previous flight suggests that the airspeed reading on the captain's instrument was unreliable, and the altitude readings differed on the captain's and first officer's instruments.

Crashed jet 'had prior instrument error'

Total deja vu. Unbelievable.
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My hubby belongs to a professional pilot's group and that's been the conversation. So far nobody knows anything but there is a lot of scuttlebutt about Lion Air. That's all I can say for now without an msm link.

The government of Australia has stopped their dignitaries from flying on that airline FWIW.
Lion Air plane crash: Indonesian search and rescue officials fear there are no survivors - CNN
 
Not sure about culpability issues here as the plane was leased.

Lion Air crash: Tragic find shocks distraught families

The 737 Max 8 was leased from China Minsheng Investment Group Leasing Holdings Ltd., according to the official China News Service.
Malindo Air, a Malaysian subsidiary of Lion Air, was the first airline to begin using the 737 Max 8 last year.
The Max 8 replaced the similar 800 in the Chicago-based plane maker’s product line.

Lion Air president-director Edward Sirait said the plane had a “technical problem” on its previous flight from Bali to Jakarta but it had been fully remedied.
He didn’t know the specifics of the problem when asked in a TV interview.
“Indeed there were reports about a technical problem, and the technical problem has been resolved in accordance with the procedures released by the plane manufacturer,” Mr Sirait said. “I did not know exactly but let it be investigated by the authorities.”
 
The remains of a baby were among those recovered from the site of a crashed Lion Air plane that plunged into the sea with 189 people aboard on Monday, national deputy police chief Ari Dono Sukmanto said on Tuesday (Oct 30).
Read more at

Remains of baby among bodies recovered from Lion Air crash site

Absolutely heartbreaking. I really hope they find the other little ones and all passengers.
 
My daughter was flying to Ireland from I think the US. Being young, she wanted to use Aeroflot (Russia). We said NO.

Air carriers are run differently.

One thing is for certain in my mind, technological improvements to aircraft along with the NTSB have made HUGE IMPROVEMENTS in flying safety. This is one of the governmental organizations that has a great track record for success.
 
gregjrichards said:
If it was like this the day before why on earth was it flying again the next day?
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It depends on the fault. Needless to say, aircraft are very complex. An aircraft can accumulate a lot of faults in routine operation.

I believe there can be many types of aircraft faults. Faults that the plane can still fly with, faults that must be corrected before any future flight, and faults in which the plane can still be flown if a back up system is confirmed to be operating or if the flight crew is fully aware of the fault and can compensate for it.

Then it gets more complex as there maybe issues as to whether the ground crew correctly identified the fault, and whether or not the crew was fully aware of a fault, whether or not a repair was made etc.
 
Cryptic said:
It depends on the fault. Needless to say, aircraft are very complex. An aircraft can accumulate a lot of faults in routine operation.

I believe there can be many types of aircraft faults. Faults that the plane can still fly with, faults that must be corrected before any future flight, and faults in which the plane can still be flown if a back up system is confirmed to be operating or if the flight crew is fully aware of the fault and can compensate for it.

Then it gets more complex as there maybe issues as to whether the ground crew correctly identified the fault, and whether or not the crew was fully aware of a fault, whether or not a repair was made etc.
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I hope the aircraft was fixed properly and not put back in the air when it should not have been due to the airlines negligence and greed.
 
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