runsdeep
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i heard on HLN was slight cold.
Lisa Irwin Disappearance - Thoughts and Theories ONLY!
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i heard on HLN was slight cold.
It's a bad idea, sure. You can go blind, actually, from Bartonella exposure (though that's on the extreme end of the spectrum) and almost all kittens are contagious for a period. There's always rabies, too. And fleas, and mites, and ticks and toxoplasmosis and ....
But I doubt she would know that. She's not very experienced and probably not, at 25, a lot clued into verterinary isses. I see it as a clueless but well-meaning adoption. Probbly didn't think much more than "YOU'RE A KITTY"
You've seen the graph: http://xkcd.com/231/
Paige SC
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I am very interested in DB's mental health history, as well as the physical health of baby Lisa. I'm curious about the man-friend and how long they have been ''pals''. I'm curious about lots... but I suspect something is terribly wrong with that mother.
gitana1
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Not to mention Danielle Van Dam, Elizabeth Smart and Riley Fox, to name a few more.
Paige SC
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I wonder if she was trying to delete previous entries, texts, etc? Does anyone know how long it takes LE to get phone records? Should they have them by now?
norest4thewicked
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But just because we haven't heard it doesn't mean it hasn't happened. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of things we haven't heard yet.
vlpate
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Paige SC
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The main difference I see is the age of the victim in this case opposed to the victims mentioned above.
vlpate
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This isn't really the kind of attention they look for. They need the pity all to themselves and there is usually, almost always, a sick child being cared for and interraction with a Dr.
norest4thewicked
True Crime Writer
Jessica Lundsford...
norest4thewicked
True Crime Writer
That was my point. We just don't know yet if Lisa was chronically "sick" or not.
She looks like a happy healthy baby in all the photos I have seen.
In the past 5 years, I've probably flown about 6 times with a lap child. I bought all of my tickets from the American Airlines website and not once has anyone ever asked to see the ID of any of my children. I always have their birth certificates with me just in case but nobody has ever asked. About 3 years ago, I had a 2 year old and an infant with me. The toddler had her own seat but they still didn't ask to see any ID for her. Of course, I was obviously stressed already so they probably didn't want to add to it. :crazy:
That would be a pretty bold move though to take a kidnapped baby to the airport. Of course, if it was a kidnapping, we're dealing with someone who left all the lights on in the house... :waitasec:
runsdeep
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[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWrLpng7xsM"]Jeffrey MacDonald on Dick Cavett - YouTube[/ame]
this one didnt boo hoo
uvamerica
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OK, I've been thinking a/b this for few days now. It goes back to when Haleigh Cummings went missing. I was watching Nancy Grace and my son (he knows I follow these cases, an had watched some of NG on the Anthony case) came in and said said, "what another missing kid ? Are these pple just getting rid of their kids to get on TV ?" Now I've been following Aliayah's case and Lisa's case, and he asked me almost the same question, except he added on, "what are these parents doing, getting rid of their kids for attention, a trip to New York to be on TV and start a "foundation" like the Anthony's did ? The 1st time he said it, I paid no attention, now I'm thinking it's very possible, (not saying its true) but a red flag for me in this case was Debra's "deal" with national media and how this case has played out so far. Could or would someone be willing to risk it all, lose their baby, and a possible life sentence for what they think is fame an fortune ? Just a thought.
Just-a-Guy
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Does there have to be a separate thread for everything? Makes it kinda hard to actually follow things.... Just my opinion.
curiositycat
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This must be at the grandparents house. Doesn't look like the baby's home
flipflop
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Does there have to be a separate thread for everything? Makes it kinda hard to actually follow things.... Just my opinion.
I couldn;t agree with you more!!!! I have followed a few cases on WS, this one is difficult with so many threads. I have commented on a few and cannot find which ones I commented on as there are so many.
belimom
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(OT: I agree to a certain extent - it's one of the downsides of getting a forum dedicated to one case. OTOH, it doesn't move so quickly as one long thread does, and it allows folks to concentrate on the areas that interest them and also puts the info altogether per topic - easier to find in the long run)
lag28wa
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Long time reader, first time poster here! Figured this is as good a place as any to jump in.
I'm really on the fence as to this case. Everything is so strange!
I agree that statistically and with the circumstances that we are aware of, a stranger abduction seems unlikely. It would seem that it would have to be someone who is somewhat familiar with the family and the home in the very least.
DB does seem very genuine with her emotions, but I could also see them being attributed to guilt in addition to grief. It of course makes no sense to try and cover up and accidental death, but I don't think people are thinking clearly in the heat of the moment and perhaps there is some reason that she believed if she told the truth no one would believe her anyways and she'd get away with this whole kidnapping ruse.
I can't decide what JI's role is in all of this, I agree that his demeanor is very strange, but I can't tell if it's just the way he is, or if it is due to some sort of emotional distance from DB or if he had an active part in some possible cover up.
It does seem brazen that an intruder would leave all the lights on and the doors open and unlocked and things like that but I maintain that a good portion of people who commit crimes aren't firing on all cylinders and logical, critical thinking might not be their strong suit. Casey Anthony, for one, seemed to even have sociopathic tendencies to me...
And here's just some random bits of my brain matter to throw onto the heap of ideas:
While there are no formulations of cold medicine on the shelves for children under the age of 4, there are still people who give it, just not as the label directs. Lots of people go with the "my mother did it and my mother's mother did it and we all turned out fine" mentality. I'm a parent myself and parents are weird about their certain things.
Also wanted to add that I just read that all over the counter infant acetaminophen (Tylenol) is changing the concentration that it's sold in. Currently you can buy infant acetaminophen which is very concentrated so that the dosage is very small, because it's always been thought that it would be easier give a very small amount to a baby. The children's formulation is much more diluted, so the amount given to a child is larger. Think dropper (baby) vs syringe or cup (child). Manufacturers are moving to selling only the weaker concentration (children's) with different dosage information for infants. The reasoning behind this is because people have gotten the two concentrations mixed up and accidentally overdosed their children. If DB had more than one formulation in the house and used the syringe for the children's Tylenol, but in the bottle of infants Tylenol she'd be giving almost 5 times the recommended dose. It probably doesn't amount to much, but it's something to think about. Of course we'll never know if DB gave Lisa any medication at all unless Lisa (or her remains
) are found or DB tells us.
I think I saw someone touch on this in one of the general discussion threads before the new forum was made, but just the other night National Geographic had a special on about memory. It was super fascinating, they used the classic scenario of a crime (like a robbery) occurring in public and then seeing what details some bystanders could immediately recall. Then they also did memory exercises hours and even days later. One of the things that researchers and neurologists have found out is that every time we recall a memory, the biochemistry of it in our brain actually changes, basically stating that you will no remember a memory absolutely 100% the same way each time you recall it. The differences may be non-essential or minute, but there are always differences. Then they also said that as time passes and memory fades, memories and their physical make-up in the brain is more susceptible to alteration. Alterations being things like one memory kind of getting glommed onto another memory, some outside influence or "suggestion" changing the memory. In the show they used the example of the bystanders to the crime, a few days after it occurred discussing what they saw as if they were witnesses getting ready to testify. As they were trying to sort out the details a "fake" planted witness used the word "red" in reference to something during the crime and several people then began to swear up and down that one of the people involved had a red coat. They were willing to testify under oath to it, when it was in fact an incorrect memory. A former detective with the NYPD was saying much of this is known in the LE community but eyewitness testimony is still considered the number one most reliable evidence to a jury. Anyways, I only bring that up in reference to all the changes in DB and JI's stories, was the door locked, was it not locked? Who's room with JI go to first, etc. Each time they are trying to recall the details it makes the memory vulnerable to alteration, which is obviously happening here.
I also get the feeling that neither DB or JI is telling the whole truth. Even if they are seemingly inconsequential details, I agree with a previous poster that said if you were nekked and howling at the moon you better tell them about it! Just to give yourself credibility.
Lastly I have to add that every night in the midst of reading these threads I have gone through my house locking my doors and windows, something I wasn't very good at doing before. And I spent an hour on the phone with ADT the other day, getting a system installed! Hubby is set to deploy in the near future and it will be just me and my 17 month old son on our own here for a while, it's time to get monitored!
I'm really on the fence as to this case. Everything is so strange!
I agree that statistically and with the circumstances that we are aware of, a stranger abduction seems unlikely. It would seem that it would have to be someone who is somewhat familiar with the family and the home in the very least.
DB does seem very genuine with her emotions, but I could also see them being attributed to guilt in addition to grief. It of course makes no sense to try and cover up and accidental death, but I don't think people are thinking clearly in the heat of the moment and perhaps there is some reason that she believed if she told the truth no one would believe her anyways and she'd get away with this whole kidnapping ruse.
I can't decide what JI's role is in all of this, I agree that his demeanor is very strange, but I can't tell if it's just the way he is, or if it is due to some sort of emotional distance from DB or if he had an active part in some possible cover up.
It does seem brazen that an intruder would leave all the lights on and the doors open and unlocked and things like that but I maintain that a good portion of people who commit crimes aren't firing on all cylinders and logical, critical thinking might not be their strong suit. Casey Anthony, for one, seemed to even have sociopathic tendencies to me...
And here's just some random bits of my brain matter to throw onto the heap of ideas:
While there are no formulations of cold medicine on the shelves for children under the age of 4, there are still people who give it, just not as the label directs. Lots of people go with the "my mother did it and my mother's mother did it and we all turned out fine" mentality. I'm a parent myself and parents are weird about their certain things.
Also wanted to add that I just read that all over the counter infant acetaminophen (Tylenol) is changing the concentration that it's sold in. Currently you can buy infant acetaminophen which is very concentrated so that the dosage is very small, because it's always been thought that it would be easier give a very small amount to a baby. The children's formulation is much more diluted, so the amount given to a child is larger. Think dropper (baby) vs syringe or cup (child). Manufacturers are moving to selling only the weaker concentration (children's) with different dosage information for infants. The reasoning behind this is because people have gotten the two concentrations mixed up and accidentally overdosed their children. If DB had more than one formulation in the house and used the syringe for the children's Tylenol, but in the bottle of infants Tylenol she'd be giving almost 5 times the recommended dose. It probably doesn't amount to much, but it's something to think about. Of course we'll never know if DB gave Lisa any medication at all unless Lisa (or her remains
) are found or DB tells us.I think I saw someone touch on this in one of the general discussion threads before the new forum was made, but just the other night National Geographic had a special on about memory. It was super fascinating, they used the classic scenario of a crime (like a robbery) occurring in public and then seeing what details some bystanders could immediately recall. Then they also did memory exercises hours and even days later. One of the things that researchers and neurologists have found out is that every time we recall a memory, the biochemistry of it in our brain actually changes, basically stating that you will no remember a memory absolutely 100% the same way each time you recall it. The differences may be non-essential or minute, but there are always differences. Then they also said that as time passes and memory fades, memories and their physical make-up in the brain is more susceptible to alteration. Alterations being things like one memory kind of getting glommed onto another memory, some outside influence or "suggestion" changing the memory. In the show they used the example of the bystanders to the crime, a few days after it occurred discussing what they saw as if they were witnesses getting ready to testify. As they were trying to sort out the details a "fake" planted witness used the word "red" in reference to something during the crime and several people then began to swear up and down that one of the people involved had a red coat. They were willing to testify under oath to it, when it was in fact an incorrect memory. A former detective with the NYPD was saying much of this is known in the LE community but eyewitness testimony is still considered the number one most reliable evidence to a jury. Anyways, I only bring that up in reference to all the changes in DB and JI's stories, was the door locked, was it not locked? Who's room with JI go to first, etc. Each time they are trying to recall the details it makes the memory vulnerable to alteration, which is obviously happening here.
I also get the feeling that neither DB or JI is telling the whole truth. Even if they are seemingly inconsequential details, I agree with a previous poster that said if you were nekked and howling at the moon you better tell them about it! Just to give yourself credibility.
Lastly I have to add that every night in the midst of reading these threads I have gone through my house locking my doors and windows, something I wasn't very good at doing before. And I spent an hour on the phone with ADT the other day, getting a system installed! Hubby is set to deploy in the near future and it will be just me and my 17 month old son on our own here for a while, it's time to get monitored!
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