Lori's Occupations

[FiveFelines]

I considered this as well when I read about it and looked at her site. As I scrolled down her website, it seemed she was always looking for females in certain age groups for things. I am not familiar with this mystery shopper stuff, and although I realize most shoppers are women, I just thought that there could be something nefarious about that, particularly, when many posts indicated that they had to provide their addresses and phone numbers. Her past is so unknown and mysterious that this could have been a conduit for anything from spam, to fraud, to human trafficking.

Here's another nefarious thing that has crossed my mind that has no basis in fact whatsoever. However, all the discussions about her age and ability or inability to have a baby, etc.. have gotten me thinking.... Well, I see so many cases on the news where women fake that they are pregnant. Not all of those cases end in tragedy, but there have been some pretty bad ones where babies of other women are taken after the nine months is about up for the faker. Sometimes, pregnant women have been killed for their babies, or babies are just snatched. This whole case is just so weird that I am just very curious as to how much is known about the circumstances surrounding the pregnancy and delivery of the baby and whether the baby was born at home. Now, I can't remember if there were any postings looking for pregnant women for any studies she was advertising and I don't have time to look back right now, but it is interesting.

Maybe this is a strange thing to think, but this case is just so weird that nothing would surprise me, particularly where there may have been some mental illness involved. I pray that baby was born in the hospital to this woman and that my imagination is way out of whack.

And just so you all don't think I'm totally nuts, I live in Ohio where we had a similar thing happen like the following bizarre story from New Mexico, and I've seen other stories like this too: http://crime.about.com/od/women/a/Darcie_Pierce.htm


And regarding the post that LEK looks very different in the picture holding the baby than all the other ones, I agree. The eyes are very different in addition to the teeth. I've also been looking at all the ears in the pictures. Her ears don't show in that one, but I'm not sure the ears are all the same in the others either. I think the ceramic piece that someone noted may be due to a "plate" I believe someone said she has. Perhaps not all her front teeth are real. If so... poor dental care throughout life? or, were they knocked out somehow? Just can't explain why her nose looks so different from time to time or why her eyes do in that one picture. I did read that with Marfan's, it affects vision and I do recall someone stating that she had vision problems. But would it make her eyes look so big in that picture with the baby, and more sunken?

Wait, you saw her website? I can't get on it. I was thinking more of the money laundering/theft type of scams, but I suspect she probably wouldn't have been so public with those businesswomen meetings then. Why go through all the trouble to create this new identity, only to risk it by running scams? Still, the message board comment about the spam made me wonder.

I also have considered that she wasn't actually ever pregnant. With what little we know about her husband, it seems like she totally could have fooled him. I assume he was present for all the IVF appointments and the delivery, but you never know...

I had also had the (admittedly crazy) notion that she used to be a man, but even if she was never pregnant, that would have showed up in DNA.

ETA: The calls for women in certain age groups were probably for focus groups.

 

[bdobbs]

Another far-fetched lead, but the jolkay identity that was re-posting jobs online for LEK was a woman names Jolene who had listed Celtic music in her interests, hobbies. I don't know where she was getting the originals for the job postings from LEK, but the music may have been a common interest. This stood out to me when I read that Eric A. was an Irish immigrant. Jolkay/Jolene was apparently very active on yahoo groups at one time, so that may be their connection. Would be hard to trace, probably....

The Jolkay thing was a mistake. That person is alive and posting currently.
It was/is extremely common to re-post opportunities across the communities.

 

[bdobbs]

QHOTE:
Apologies in advance if this was already discussed, but have people considered that LEKR's mystery shopping business was a scam? I'm assuming if LE looked at her computer, they would have checked this, or there would have been complaints about her. (All I can find is a message board posting from 2004 where someone complains that "An Eye For Detail" appears to be a vanity site and just produces spam.)

I suspect LEK was legit in this sense, but imagine if she was up to stuff like this?

http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0053-mystery-shopper-scams

I ask because I've always thought her new identity was just a way out of an old life (even if that old life had a criminal element)... but maybe she was running other scams than just her ID.

******
I considered this as well when I read about it and looked at her site. As I scrolled down her website, it seemed she was always looking for females in certain age groups for things. I am not familiar with this mystery shopper stuff, and although I realize most shoppers are women, I just thought that there could be something nefarious about that, particularly, when many posts indicated that they had to provide their addresses and phone numbers. Her past is so unknown and mysterious that this could have been a conduit for anything from spam, to fraud, to human trafficking.

Here's another nefarious thing that has crossed my mind that has no basis in fact whatsoever. However, all the discussions about her age and ability or inability to have a baby, etc.. have gotten me thinking.... Well, I see so many cases on the news where women fake that they are pregnant. Not all of those cases end in tragedy, but there have been some pretty bad ones where babies of other women are taken after the nine months is about up for the faker. Sometimes, pregnant women have been killed for their babies, or babies are just snatched. This whole case is just so weird that I am just very curious as to how much is known about the circumstances surrounding the pregnancy and delivery of the baby and whether the baby was born at home. Now, I can't remember if there were any postings looking for pregnant women for any studies she was advertising and I don't have time to look back right now, but it is interesting.

Maybe this is a strange thing to think, but this case is just so weird that nothing would surprise me, particularly where there may have been some mental illness involved. I pray that baby was born in the hospital to this woman and that my imagination is way out of whack.

And just so you all don't think I'm totally nuts, I live in Ohio where we had a similar thing happen like the following bizarre story from New Mexico, and I've seen other stories like this too: http://crime.about.com/od/women/a/Darcie_Pierce.htm


And regarding the post that LEK looks very different in the picture holding the baby than all the other ones, I agree. The eyes are very different in addition to the teeth. I've also been looking at all the ears in the pictures. Her ears don't show in that one, but I'm not sure the ears are all the same in the others either. I think the ceramic piece that someone noted may be due to a "plate" I believe someone said she has. Perhaps not all her front teeth are real. If so... poor dental care throughout life? or, were they knocked out somehow? Just can't explain why her nose looks so different from time to time or why her eyes do in that one picture. I did read that with Marfan's, it affects vision and I do recall someone stating that she had vision problems. But would it make her eyes look so big in that picture with the baby, and more sunken?

It wasn't a scam business, but in my eyes it had some dodgy practice regarding spam. There were a number of complaints about spam practices occurring after people signed up to her database. This was during a time when spam practices were not well defined, so Lori could easily have felt she was just leveraging her assets.

The database was nothing out of the ordinary. Remember, it wasn't just mystery shopping. Some of the contracts required specific genders, ages, ethnicities, education. She would send out notifications to people who fit the criteria for a given assignment.

 

[epiphaknee]

This is such a fascinating case to me , maybe because I was sort of living a parallel life for a while , I ...even lived on the same street as LEK at one time (Melody Lane, Dallas).

LEK did not secure her driver's license for several months once in Dallas. Because you were living on Melody Lane, was it easy to get around town without having a car and being able to drive? Her job at Kelly Services was pretty close but it gets really hot in Dallas. I wonder how she got around during those months. After getting my ID card, name change and by SSA number (all within months) I would get my driver's license as soon as possible. Of course some Gentlemen's Clubs have vans to and from work in Texas to avoid patrons following the dancers...

 

[AstroKitty]

This is such a fascinating case to me , maybe because I was sort of living a parallel life for a while , I ...even lived on the same street as LEK at one time (Melody Lane, Dallas).

LEK did not secure her driver's license for several months once in Dallas. Because you were living on Melody Lane, was it easy to get around town without having a car and being able to drive? Her job at Kelly Services was pretty close but it gets really hot in Dallas. I wonder how she got around during those months. After getting my ID card, name change and by SSA number (all within months) I would get my driver's license as soon as possible. Of course some Gentlemen's Clubs have vans to and from work in Texas to avoid patrons following the dancers...

What? I have never in my life heard of this and have danced for a very long time, including in Dallas.

Kelly services is or was a temp agency all over the US (Not sure if everyone knew that)

Dallas has public transportation and many people use the bus. There's also cabs.

 

[neesaki]

Apologies in advance if this was already discussed, but have people considered that LEKR's mystery shopping business was a scam? I'm assuming if LE looked at her computer, they would have checked this, or there would have been complaints about her. (All I can find is a message board posting from 2004 where someone complains that "An Eye For Detail" appears to be a vanity site and just produces spam.)

I suspect LEK was legit in this sense, but imagine if she was up to stuff like this?

http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0053-mystery-shopper-scams

I ask because I've always thought her new identity was just a way out of an old life (even if that old life had a criminal element)... but maybe she was running other scams than just her ID.

I had this same thought when I first started following this case and learned what her business was. The reason being, that I tried this mystery shopping thing years ago, and what a total waste of my time. Paid nothing to speak of, and they didn't even pay for the item I purchased at the store. All I got out of a review of a movie theater, was the tickets to the movie. That's it.

Also, they lived in a very small town, so mystery shopping opportunities would be rare and far between. And if she was recruiting others to do this, well, all I can say is imo, it's such a rip off it couldn't have made her any new friends. I wonder now if there had been any complaints filed against her with the BBB.

I would like to find out how much income, if any, she was actually bringing in, and where it really came from. :twocents:

 

[granola]

I don't post much and I'm going to be "mustarding" here, but..

I think the case for her being from a cult like The Children of God is fairly strong. I've read a lot about them. Now, I doubt her being born overseas because if she was born in the early to mid 60s, I don't think she would have been of the right age to have been born overseas as a missionary for a cult. They wouldn't have come quite into fashion yet in their overseas missions.

I think it's possible she was born around 1965-66 and around the age of 6-8, something traumatic (joining the cult and being cut off from her friends and the world she knew?) happened. She wanted an easy bake oven as an adult, and I think this was probably one childish example of many; I think the tea rooms/tea parties and the name chosen for her daughter are all examples from the period during which this traumatic incidence may have occurred, since she seemed to be stuck in that mindset. The Children of God and other cults (but especially Children of God/Family Intl.) were very strongly pushing child sexual abuse and molestation. Add in the strong protective feelings of her daughter and it seems quite likely that something bad happened in her childhood. As a side note, children were taken from parents in the Children of God cult, and given to the community to raise. The comment "we don't do that" in relation to the newspaper announcement is also a hint towards her past - the cult did not look favorably upon any media coverage.

Then we have the fact that she was a dancer in clubs in the early 90s and possibly before. Assuming she left the cult in the mid to late 80s, that's about the time that overseas "missions" were being pushed heavily, and prostitution and stripping almost doubly so, as a way of making money from the now unemployed members of the group. It may have been the only thing she'd ever done other than possibly attend some school (she was smart but it doesn't seem like she was exceptionally smart?) if she was a member of the cult, and would have been likely that she knew it would be easy to make money to change her name and her life.

As far as how she did it, I'm convinced she must have known someone to get either the book on how to leave or an identity broker of some sort. 2 months was fairly exceptional planning to completely steal an identity and turn around and get a new one on top of it. I'm not convinced she was ever in a cemetary in Puyallup, necessarily.

That's JMO but the fact that she seemed stuck on her childhood while being overprotective seems to be the biggest clue to her past. Something bad happened in her youth.

 

[granola]

The point about the inlaws is a good one; if I didn't get along with my in-laws, I certainly wouldn't want them talking for me after my death. I guess them running off to get married kind of points to this, too; she didn't want to do things the in-laws' way.

Her former boyfriend did point out that she had a "lot of problems" when he knew her. I don't know that it could be as simple as in-laws causing all the trouble if she didn't know them then.

I wonder if anyone who knew her in her dancer life, even as Lori, would come forward if this was published in Dallas and talk a little more about her when they knew her.

 

[Tripmap]

My theory. If she had been an exotic dancer or stripper, she may have met up with some bad people in that business who she needed to get away from, or owed someone money. Also may just not want to be remembered by anyone who may have know her as a stripper who had known her real original name. I don't see where the stripping possibly was in the timelines, so I apologize if the stripping was after the name change.

She may also have been a runaway who didn't have any of her documents and didn't want to be found, so she created an identity. She could also have been a victim of parental abduction and been hidden from one of her parents by the other until adulthood, living under a false identity given to her by her parent to stay in hiding (like the Faye Yager underground). She then didn't have her birth certificate or anything and/or may not have even known her original name or that she had another parent looking for her (many are told their other parent died). This last is a bit far-fetched, yet not impossible, there are hundreds of cases like this. The Faye Yager people could even have helped her create a new 2nd or 3rd identity.

 

[FiveFelines]

Another thought about the stripping. We only know that she *said* she danced, right? Could be a total red herring to throw people off--few people would think a former FLDS member would be an exotic dancer, as Delorean pointed out. For all we know, she never stripped. Although I do think she spent time or had an interest in CA, if we go by her notes.

 

[branwynbreeze]

Another thought about the stripping. We only know that she *said* she danced, right? Could be a total red herring to throw people off--few people would think a former FLDS member would be an exotic dancer, as Delorean pointed out. For all we know, she never stripped. Although I do think she spent time or had an interest in CA, if we go by her notes.

I believe it was in ST article that a former boyfriend said she danced.

 

[CaseCracka]

Another thought about the stripping. We only know that she *said* she danced, right? Could be a total red herring to throw people off--few people would think a former FLDS member would be an exotic dancer, as Delorean pointed out. For all we know, she never stripped. Although I do think she spent time or had an interest in CA, if we go by her notes.

No, I don't believe she said she did, I believe an ex boyfriend said she did. There's also a gap in employment from the time she arrived in Dallas until she got her GED. She had to be doing something to get money between July of 88 and the Spring of 90. Very hard to get a job without a high school diploma let alone a GED. Not to mention she had a boob job which is something many dancers do to get better tips.

 

[ClaireNC]

Hi everyone - I'm yet another person inspired to join by the Seattle Times story. I was sucked in and wound up reading the whole thread.

My own observations:

- Whoever LEK was before the BST/LEK reinvention, she knew what she was doing when she took on her new identity. I actually owned the Loompanics catalog, which I bought at a bookstore on Haight Street in San Francisco. It could also be found at the Anarchist's Book Fair. Zines, BBS's - they all had "How to disappear" instructions. If LEK didn't hire a broker, she had some way to get hold of this kind of information (which, again, could be as easy as going to the Anarchist Book Fair or walking into a leftie bookstore) and the sophistication to use it effectively. Which leads me to:

- Her age. Others in the thread have mentioned it, the detective on the case mentioned it, and I agree, that LEK was older than she claimed. She may have just aged poorly and rapidly towards the end of her life, but I have a surmise (snipped) that she was born around 1963. A very famous Kennedy event - the JFK assassination - occurred then. Also, the name "Lori" with that spelling reached its peak of popularity in 1963 (it was #8). It had lost considerable ground by 1968/9. The website behindthename.com allows you to search names by popularity.

- Regardless of whether "Lori" was close to her real name, she would have wanted a name that wasn't too unique, I would think. It might have been chosen for its generic-ness, shortness and ease of spelling. For all I know, "Lori Kennedy" might have been made up out of popular first name in peer group + notable event in birth year (and thus easy to remember?)

- Cuban food. I was reading that and thought that would be an unusual food preference for someone not from New York or Miami. But then I remembered the Versailles chain of Cuban restaurants that opened up in the LA area in the 1980's. (snipped)
Could this be a connection with Los Angeles? LEK liked Cuban food because she ate at the Versailles restaurants? If the "Cuban food" isn't a red herring, then this might be a place she developed a taste for it; Cuban food isn't that popular on the West coast compared to Mexican food or food from Central or South American countries.

- Her hands and feet. Someone noted way back in the thread that her hands might be the most likely way to track her. You can get plastic surgery on your face and body, you can cut/dye/perm your hair but you can't really do anything about your hands and feet. To judge from the Texas Women in Business pics, LEK had notably large hands and feet. She'd be the kind of person who would have a lot of trouble finding shoes to fit her in the pre-online-shopping era. She'd be complaining to her friends about finding shoes, and probably wouldn't be able to borrow or share shoes with her friends or fellow dancers. In her case, I would want to know if there was a long-missing woman who might have had unusual difficulty finding shoes to fit!

Welcome AlayneStone! :welcome:

Great first post! I think she might have been just a bit older, possibly born as early as 1959. Good point about the popularity of the name Lori in 1963! I haven't seen that mentioned here before. The other aspect of the name, IMO, is that she might have been used to being called "Lori". Her name might have been Lorraine or Laura, or some other variation, or her middle name might have been a variation, but it could very well be a name she was used to being called. Imagine changing your identity and running into somebody that calls you by your "old" name. How would you react? From the other side, if my name was always Jane, but I suddenly changed it to, Lori, if somebody said "Lori come here"...I would not react. I would not immediately realize that they were speaking to me. (I hope that makes sense). Just saying that I have a strong belief that the name Lori could very well be attached to her true identity.

As for your comments about the trouble finding shoes. She probably did not complain to her friends as she did not want to draw attention to the fact that she had big feet. In that era, big feet were just simply considered unfeminine.

 

[AstroKitty]

The Seattle Times article said, "Everywhere, there was paper filled with Lori’s scrawls. When she ran out of space, she wrote over top of whatever she had just jotted down." And... "Denny suggested Lori come to counseling at the church where he serves as pastor. She brought in notebooks in which she rambled about “what was wrong with her and how she could get him back,” he said."

So, I totally agree with you Claire.

Im so going to out myself for some stupid behavior post bad breakup 4 years ago. I literally LOST it my ever loving mind. I had no friends (he claimed them), I lived in one of the US's largest cities.. so I was all "alone". I would write for hours n' hours and when I ran out of paper, I wrote on the walls near my bed. I was not in a good place and I did try to end my life. I can't explain what the trigger was (I left him!) but something burst inside me and writing was cathartic. I think became obsessed in "changing". If I had had a gun, I wouldn't be here today. Because I didn't have access to a way out - I went to get help.

I dont' have any diagnosis other than Borderline Personality disorder and ADHD. I take nothing for either as both aren't an issue currently, but my BPD allowed me to fracture off and suffer from psychosis. something to think about. I'm totally ashamed I admitted this to strangers, but I wanted to express that sometimes - things just go wrong.

And it wouldn't shock me at all to find out she had BPD. We have the ability (when we aren't "trained" by therapy) to fracture off. Self harm (ED's, Cutting, Drugs) are HUUUUUGGEEE issues. It's all or nothing mentality no grey areas unless you slow down and think things through, which again takes patience (something we arne't known for) and desire to go against what we perceive. What if she does have BPD and that is what it easy to become other people? Being a dancer is easy when you have BPD because you just fracture off.

 

[HerStory]

Im so going to out myself for some stupid behavior post bad breakup 4 years ago. I literally LOST it my ever loving mind. I had no friends (he claimed them), I lived in one of the US's largest cities.. so I was all "alone". I would write for hours n' hours and when I ran out of paper, I wrote on the walls near my bed. I was not in a good place and I did try to end my life. I can't explain what the trigger was (I left him!) but something burst inside me and writing was cathartic. I think became obsessed in "changing". If I had had a gun, I wouldn't be here today. Because I didn't have access to a way out - I went to get help.

I dont' have any diagnosis other than Borderline Personality disorder and ADHD. I take nothing for either as both aren't an issue currently, but my BPD allowed me to fracture off and suffer from psychosis. something to think about. I'm totally ashamed I admitted this to strangers, but I wanted to express that sometimes - things just go wrong.

And it wouldn't shock me at all to find out she had BPD. We have the ability (when we aren't "trained" by therapy) to fracture off. Self harm (ED's, Cutting, Drugs) are HUUUUUGGEEE issues. It's all or nothing mentality no grey areas unless you slow down and think things through, which again takes patience (something we arne't known for) and desire to go against what we perceive. What if she does have BPD and that is what it easy to become other people? Being a dancer is easy when you have BPD because you just fracture off.

Thank you for sharing, AstroKitty. It takes a lot to confide...but more often than not, it is that bravery that helps others to face and conquer what you described.:seeya:

 

[ceecee30]

Im so going to out myself for some stupid behavior post bad breakup 4 years ago. I literally LOST it my ever loving mind. I had no friends (he claimed them), I lived in one of the US's largest cities.. so I was all "alone". I would write for hours n' hours and when I ran out of paper, I wrote on the walls near my bed. I was not in a good place and I did try to end my life. I can't explain what the trigger was (I left him!) but something burst inside me and writing was cathartic. I think became obsessed in "changing". If I had had a gun, I wouldn't be here today. Because I didn't have access to a way out - I went to get help.

I dont' have any diagnosis other than Borderline Personality disorder and ADHD. I take nothing for either as both aren't an issue currently, but my BPD allowed me to fracture off and suffer from psychosis. something to think about. I'm totally ashamed I admitted this to strangers, but I wanted to express that sometimes - things just go wrong.

And it wouldn't shock me at all to find out she had BPD. We have the ability (when we aren't "trained" by therapy) to fracture off. Self harm (ED's, Cutting, Drugs) are HUUUUUGGEEE issues. It's all or nothing mentality no grey areas unless you slow down and think things through, which again takes patience (something we arne't known for) and desire to go against what we perceive. What if she does have BPD and that is what it easy to become other people? Being a dancer is easy when you have BPD because you just fracture off.

The BPD could also tie into the way house was kept if she was having a rough patch, I know myself with my BPD if things are getting too much I just sit on my *advertiser censored* and do pretty much nothing.. That lack of motivation can be awful.

The BPD could also explain the pastor session where she's trying to get BR back to the point of all the notebooks etc. we do suffer abandonment issues.

It could also very well explain her reluctance to advertise the marriage etc. I know with me I couldn't give a rats *advertiser censored* about celebrating stuff (unless its for my kids) to the point I refused to celebrate my 30th recently

BPD could explain some of her weird behaviors for sure! And it certainly could help with the stripping having BPD because of our wonderful ability to disassociate from things..

 

[AlayneStone]

Just looking at the Women in Business pictures of LEK, I think she has to have been at least 5'10, maybe even 5'11 as her passport said. Note that in the one picture - standing next to the African-American guy - she is as tall as he is and taller than all the other women. Then in the pic with the old guy in front and LEK in the back row, notice how she's standing with her feet apart and legs slightly bent in order to look shorter (and fit in the picture). And finally, she towers over the other woman in the photo that also shows how big her hands were. Seeing that picture reminds me of me standing next to a friend who is 5'11 to my 5'2.

FLEK was clearly notably tall, not just "on the tall side of average" as 5'6 would be, but tall enough to stand out in a group of women. I don't know if strippers and dancers regularly borrow one another's clothes and/or share fashion tips, but someone with her height and foot size would stand out as someone it would be hard to share clothes with. I mention this as it might be something memorable about JD/LEK that might trigger recollections, especially from people who may have danced at the same place(s) she did.

 

[AlayneStone]

Just looking at the Women in Business pictures of LEK, I think she has to have been at least 5'10, maybe even 5'11 as her passport said. Note that in the one picture - standing next to the African-American guy - she is as tall as he is and taller than all the other women. Then in the pic with the old guy in front and LEK in the back row, notice how she's standing with her feet apart and legs slightly bent in order to look shorter (and fit in the picture). And finally, she towers over the other woman in the photo that also shows how big her hands were. Seeing that picture reminds me of me standing next to a friend who is 5'11 to my 5'2.

FLEK was clearly notably tall, not just "on the tall side of average" as 5'6 would be, but tall enough to stand out in a group of women. I don't know if strippers and dancers regularly borrow one another's clothes and/or share fashion tips, but someone with her height and foot size would stand out as someone it would be hard to share clothes with. I mention this as it might be something memorable about JD/LEK that might trigger recollections, especially from people who may have danced at the same place(s) she did.

 

[martie82]

I don't think we even know the extent of what LEKR did. Personally I lean towards occasional dancing, maybe stripping. We only see head shots for the early years. Nobody knows how marvelous she really was as a dancer. Maybe she had the look that was needed when she was younger. I really don't know.

I also don't think this thread would be what it is without Astro. I don't want to get into the comparative thing of saying, well LEKR was a mess, a disaster, didn't know what she was doing, whereas Astro really seems self aware, and so on and so on. I'd just reiterate that the thread wouldn't be what it is without Astro.

 

[ClaireNC]

From dancer/stripper to market research consultant and computer science engineer, here is a place to talk about Lori's various occupations.