Luka Magotta AKA Eric Newman Trial, Week Nov 20, 2014 - Trial Thread #4

[Rayemonde]

Thanks for the info about the Vancouver connection.

Questions:

1. Why send the body part s to SCHOOLS? Prestigious or not?

2. The Mount Pleasant area of Toronto is quite elite. How did he afford to live there?

:thinking:

One newspaper article theorised that he chose schools because he'd been bullied badly when he went to school himself, and because he never got the chance to go to a prestigious school - jealousy I guess. But myself, now that I've read that he had some connections to Vancouver I'm wondering if he had a personal reason to choose those schools.
IIRC one of the notes he sent said "DIE B****! SOON!" and the other said "Roses are red, violets are blue, the police will need dental records to identify you b****. Which apparently was from a movie called Valentine.
Also, the fingers on one of the hands he sent had been cut as if to remove the fingerprints, the other hand hadn't been cut in that manner. I'm not sure which hand it was, or if it matters.

I just checked the timeline, and I'm not sure when he lived in Mt Pleasant but he was moving around a lot in 2005 and 2006. He was living with his dad for a while, at one point apparently he had a roomate called Nader Eid and Barbie Swallows said she lived with him briefly in 2006 in his apartment Toronto. In Winter 2006 his psychiatrist wrote that he had been moving around a lot and was currently in Peterborough.

So he can only have lived in Mt Pleasant for a few months at most, and when he moved out he still owed $2,500 in rent. In other words, he couldn't afford it I wonder if part of the reason he was moving a lot was to escape paying back-rent.

 

[andreww]

So it's not just me then. No one in that courtroom seemed to understand why LeClair presented that evidence.

I wasn't aware that LM had claimed he and JL made those calls. And I think we know that JL was likely dead at that time. So he was once again making up stories to cover the discovery. There was no other evidence from anyone who knew JL that he was planning a trip to Vancouver. He was still in contact with his "ex" right up to the day he died and never said a word about it to him.

So what was his purpose in calling hotels in Vancouver? And what happened to the information about a plane ticket in JL's name?

Was he going to attempt to travel within Canada as JL (no passport required) to make it look like JL had flown to Vancouver?

Did he really think that no one would figure out who the body parts belonged to? Didn't he try to eliminate finger tips? For someone who follows so much crime and gore he must know about DNA?

And where was JL's phone found? Or was it found at all?

:gaah:

MOO

My guess is that at the time he thought that if he called Vancouver hotels with JLs phone, anyone looking for him would assume that he just disappeared to Vancouver. Of course this was before his foolproof plan for disposing of the body parts fell apart. But lets assume that the garbage had been picked up on schedule that day. It would likely be some time before the remains he mailed would be linked to some missing Asian student who had likely drifted off to Vancouver. Te fact that JL was alone in Canada likely was a contributing factor in LM selecting him. He didn't want to risk a parent, girlfriend or boyfriend coming and looking for him the next day because his victim didn't come home that night. Maybe thats why the unidentified guy from the week before made it out alive.

 

[Rayemonde]

Creepy! Here's the trailer for "Valentine":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XI3kcfH4I9U

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

THANKS to all of you for your replies regarding Vancouver!

Quoted from Rayemonde:

But myself, now that I've read that he had some connections to Vancouver I'm wondering if he had a personal reason to choose those schools.

Yes, my thoughts as well. Heck, I was bullied for wearing glasses and braces on my teeth. I also did not go to "prestigious" schools. Another excuse!!:jail:

 

[Rayemonde]

That movie Valentine is about a kid who was bullied at school growing up to eventually murder the people who had bullied him. Maybe LM wanted people to think that the sender of the parcel had been a pupil at that school? A red herring?

The right foot was sent to St. George's School and the right hand to False Creek Elementary School in Vancouver.
All five fingers of the LEFT hand were cut as though “someone wanted to get rid of fingerprints.”
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news...Luka+Magnotta+trial+hears/10277439/story.html

A severed human foot was discovered in False Creek, Vancouver, on August 30, 2011. There was speculation at the time that a serial killer was responsible. People were wondering - all these feet, where are the rest of the body parts?
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...g-up-on-shore-in-british-columbia-canada.html

So, anyway, there was speculation at the time that LM had sent the hand to False Creek in the hope of making people think that he had also been responsible for the feet had had been found washing up along the coast.

 

[Rayemonde]

Ottawa Bureau Chief Robert Fife reported late Wednesday that the note with the foot, which arrived at Tory headquarters Tuesday morning, said six body parts had been distributed. Police found a severed hand in a parcel addressed to Liberal Party headquarters in Ottawa later Tuesday.

"Canada Post and the police are now working, trying to find those four other missing body parts," Fife said.
"And that note also said that the suspect indicated he would kill again, and that is why the police are trying to find him, and fast. Police say there is no political motivation behind this, this was the work of a madman."

Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/note-with-severed-foot-warned-of-more-killings-1.833410#ixzz3JkEo2acV

I just found this old article :waitasec: Nothing like this has been mentioned at the trial, has it? A note saying he would kill again?

 

[BorgQueen]

Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/note-with-severed-foot-warned-of-more-killings-1.833410#ixzz3JkEo2acV

I just found this old article :waitasec: Nothing like this has been mentioned at the trial, has it? A note saying he would kill again?

That article, at least the quote posted, is filled with inaccuracies. Only 4 parts were mailed. And we have seen the notes that were sent with the packages.
Keep in mind that at first, MSM *AND* LE were reporting that Magnotta DID have a connection to Homolka. LE quickly backpedalled though.


ETA: How many boxes did he purchase, in total? 5 or 6 was it? Perhaps that is where this error came from? Not sure about the note thing though, but it is inaccurate.

 

[Rayemonde]

Think you're right, it was just the media making stuff up

I've just found out that at the time of the snake video LM was very friendly with a woman he met on a KH forum called - ROBERTA not Rebecca. Username Kattzpaw

 

[BorgQueen]

They may not have been making stuff up for the sake of making stuff up. It is possible they were just reporting various rumours. If it sounds good, print it. They weren't fact checking.

 

[matou]

That movie Valentine is about a kid who was bullied at school growing up to eventually murder the people who had bullied him. Maybe LM wanted people to think that the sender of the parcel had been a pupil at that school? A red herring?

The right foot was sent to St. George's School and the right hand to False Creek Elementary School in Vancouver.
All five fingers of the LEFT hand were cut as though “someone wanted to get rid of fingerprints.”
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news...Luka+Magnotta+trial+hears/10277439/story.html

A severed human foot was discovered in False Creek, Vancouver, on August 30, 2011. There was speculation at the time that a serial killer was responsible. People were wondering - all these feet, where are the rest of the body parts?
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...g-up-on-shore-in-british-columbia-canada.html

So, anyway, there was speculation at the time that LM had sent the hand to False Creek in the hope of making people think that he had also been responsible for the feet had had been found washing up along the coast.

Very interesting! Did he put a heart on the message with the package he sent to the school? Does the person in this movie do that too?

 

[Kamille]

Bankruptcy debt in Vancouver suburb:
Magnotta's list of debts of about $17,000 includes his largest outstanding debt being $6,882 owed to an auto-leasing company in Burnaby.
According to PostMedia News, Magnotta's other debts included the following:
* $800 to the City of Toronto for parking tickets.
* $500 owed to Bally's Total Fitness in Scarborough.
* $200 for unpaid toll charges on Highway 407.
* $1,400 in cellphone bills from Rogers and Bell Mobility.
* $2,500 on back rent for an apartment in Toronto's Mount Pleasant area.

Well there you go. I think I have the answer to my question about his excuse for constantly moving and constantly changing phones. He just didn't pay for things. He lived in Montreal for less than a year and moved twice? So he lived in 3 different places. Do we think he paid all his rent? He changed phones often. Do we think he ever paid for them?

Prior to the bankruptcy was his charge for fraud to three large department stores. He used a real person's ID which is how he got caught. Do you think he was using fake ID after that for things? Did he have credit cards? Did he owe anything on them? Did he get cards in various names? Does Kirk Trammel have any debts? Nathan? All the other identities he was using online? Oh wait, he still owed on a credit card for the almost $2000 that he paid to get to Paris. Do we think that was paid?

Do we really believe that after the fraud and then after the bankruptcy that he started paying all his bills on time? And that he only moved and got new phones because he was paranoid that he was being followed?

I know I don't.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

I thought he lived in BC for a while? I thought that's where he did the *advertiser censored*?

MOO

ETA: I see Rayemonde has posted that information. So he does have ties to Vancouver as he likely lived there for a while. How long would it take to rack up $6900 in leasing fees? I wonder what kind of vehicle he leased?

MOO

 

[BorgQueen]

Well there you go. I think I have the answer to my question about his excuse for constantly moving and constantly changing phones. He just didn't pay for things. He lived in Montreal for less than a year and moved twice? So he lived in 3 different places. Do we think he paid all his rent? He changed phones often. Do we think he ever paid for them?

Prior to the bankruptcy was his charge for fraud to three large department stores. He used a real person's ID which is how he got caught. Do you think he was using fake ID after that for things? Did he have credit cards? Did he owe anything on them? Did he get cards in various names? Does Kirk Trammel have any debts? Nathan? All the other identities he was using online? Oh wait, he still owed on a credit card for the almost $2000 that he paid to get to Paris. Do we think that was paid?

Do we really believe that after the fraud and then after the bankruptcy that he started paying all his bills on time? And that he only moved and got new phones because he was paranoid that he was being followed?

I know I don't.

MOO

BBM.
Ya, he was being "followed". By collection agencies. He wasn't "paranoid". He KNEW he was wanted because he OWED a LOT of money to a LOT of companies (and probably people, too). He is a con artist. A criminal. A murderer. AND A LIAR.

(moo :moo: )

 

[Rayemonde]

I thought he lived in BC for a while? I thought that's where he did the *advertiser censored*?

MOO

ETA: I see Rayemonde has posted that information. So he does have ties to Vancouver as he likely lived there for a while. How long would it take to rack up $6900 in leasing fees? I wonder what kind of vehicle he leased?

MOO

Barbi Swallows said he would hire a limo to take her on dates. The next year he was declared bankrupt.

 

[Rayemonde]

Luka with Barbi


The building where Barbi says she lived with Luka.

 

[Rayemonde]

I"m pretty sure now that Katzzpaw had NOTHING to do with the snake video. Katzzpaw was a member of a forum called Watching Karla Homolka, which LM infiltrated under different names, harassing and stalking members and turning them against each other.
That forum is probably where he got KH's sister's address from.

 

[Dane]

One thing I have been curious about, in order to move to Paris, I would assume you would need to apply for the correct visas. Was LM planning on moving there illegally?

Well, I am not French, so I don't know exactly about the French immigration rules. But France is one of the founding states of the EU, and Denmark has been a member since 1972. Both our countries are among the oldest civilized countries in Europe, with excellent infrastructure and health care systems. Since we in the EU are all somewhat governed from the EU parliament, all EU countries must adhere to the common set of EU rules, and if any member country strays too far from these in their local legislation, the EU can and will impose sanctions on the country in question. So we, as EU members, cannot be so different in that respect. France is a very large country with a huge influx of immigrants and/or refugees. Denmark is a (very) small country, with a disproportionate influx of immigrants and/or refugees, when compared to our size and native population. Here in Denmark we have very tight immigration legislation for the same reason. I don't think France is any more lax with regards to their immigration legislation.
A visa will only be valid for three months - a so called "tourist visa". If not renewed, you will be flagged/arrested by the police all over the EU, and if you cannot renew it on valid grounds, you will be extradited. Promptly. Here in Denmark that process is quite efficient, and I would trust it to be no less efficient in France.

For an illegal immigrant though, France (AND Germany), when seen by its sheer size, would be far easier to go hide in than many other European countries. And once here in Europe, due to the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement , it is much easier to move around in Europe, be it legally or not.

LM managed just fine to get to Europe since he left before he was even a suspect, and very easily further on to Germany using a false passport (since he was "only" taking a bus there... so their control was inefficient).
I am in no doubt what so ever he will have researched these matters thoroughly, well ahead of his departure. I mean... he COULD have just gone to Russia with his supposedly many Russian mob contacts *ahem*. But then he would have found himself in a country without even the most basic health care system, and with an infra structure not guaranteeing Internet access regardless of location.

The horror!

MOO of course!

 

[Kamille]

Robin Edgar ‏@RobinEdgar · Nov 22
Friday morning's hors jury discussion between Justice Cournoyer & #Magnotta trial lawyers suggests that Monday could be quite interesting...


Hmmm....:thinking:

 

[Rayemonde]

I don't know what he was planning on doing if he hadn't been caught. He wouldn't be able to claim benefits, he had no job skills and he would find it more difficult to get "escort" work as he got older. Maybe he would have ended up just moving from place to place and stealing from people. An escort must have plenty of opportunity to steal.

 

[Kamille]

I don't know what he was planning on doing if he hadn't been caught. He wouldn't be able to claim benefits, he had no job skills and he would find it more difficult to get "escort" work as he got older. Maybe he would have ended up just moving from place to place and stealing from people. An escort must have plenty of opportunity to steal.

I don't know...he had a young face and slim build and the couple of gentlemen that I've read about who were clients were in their 60's and 70's so I think he had lots of escort time left in him to keep him busy in Europe. And perhaps he was considering the possibility of latching onto a long term "relationship" with an older gentleman who would "keep" him. Perhaps that's what he was hoping for in Frank Rubert, who was in his 50's.

But I have no doubt he would have figured out a way to survive if he was able to integrate into Europe under a different name and not get caught by Interpol. Stealing, hooking, begging...whatever.

Those damn cheekbones. :floorlaugh:

MOO