MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #2

[Charlot123]

I just watched the Chris Albert testimony. The difference in his body language and demeanor when is son is introduced into the questioning is palpable and telling. In my opinion he's clearly protecting his son (as any parent might do) for SOMETHING. Not necessarily anything nefarious...it might be something completely innocent and innocuous. But his body language absolutely changes.

Respectfully shortened for brevity. You may be right, but the opposite scenario can be true as well. Imagine that CA spent the evening in a bar, went home, not totally sober, fell asleep and in the morning, heard that KR hit JO with her car. Then KR is arrested, and her defense pulls the usual SODDI trick, only SODDI is CA’s own son. Of whose moral character I know little, but if CA didn’t hear much about JO from his son, and now the situation is inflated for defense purposes, I can imagine him feeling angry. We really don’t know what happened there: it is possible that there was bad blood between CA and JO; likewise, it is not implausible that CA, being young, didn’t think twice of the older dude. If the latter is true, CA as the father has the right to feel angry.

 

[Charlot123]

I don’t think you’re a weirdo. I just think JM comes off as a mean girl, who likes to have her tentacles everywhere. Her name pops up in the most crucial moments of this investigation.
I think her and other wives had some envy of Karen.
You can almost see the hierarchy among the mean girls, but I think they all secretly wished they were as successful and independent like K.
Mean girls’ identities seems to be to be attached to their husbands’.
Jmo

And, it might have been that, or something very different. KR was JO’s GF of two years. It is quite likely that he was not alone before, and it could simply be so that the residents of Canton preferred his other friends over KR. In fact, this was the first thing that came to my mind.

 

[k-mac]

OCCAM RAZOR.

I hit him.

just can't see the hoops and loops ..volume of people needed to participate in a conspiracy to set up woman....who the accepted facts include but are not limited to below.

drunk as a skunk...caught on video driving recklessly hitting random things in her inebriated state....was at the scene of the crime inthe window necessary.... texts confirming the volatility of this relationship at that moment...multiple people unconnected witnessing her unsolicited confession....her ring camera footage mysteriously vanishes through the night.

its a lot to move past occam razor on the information I seen so far when you are prepared to remove the white noise and simply look at Karen's identifiable actions alone.

I think she will be convicted.

moo

 

[maamager]

OCCAM RAZOR.

I hit him.

just can't see the hoops and loops ..volume of people needed to participate in a conspiracy to set up woman....who the accepted facts include but are not limited to below.

drunk as a skunk...caught on video driving recklessly hitting random things in her inebriated state....was at the scene of the crime inthe window necessary.... texts confirming the volatility of this relationship at that moment...multiple people unconnected witnessing her unsolicited confession....her ring camera footage mysteriously vanishes through the night.

its a lot to move past occam razor on the information I seen so far when you are prepared to remove the white noise and simply look at Karen's identifiable actions alone.

I think she will be convicted.

moo

Respectively giving some pushback here.

You are conflating the Ring video from O'Keefe's garage camera with the camera from the Canton officer that lived across the street from Brian Albert. Again, example of the shoddy police work being done because LE never subpoenaed that video. They took him on his word that there wasn't anything on that video.

That's why the Prosecutor has John O'Keefe's Ring video - his iphone was the only device paired.

When there are so many inconsistent testimonies from key players, deviation from investigative best practices, and clear consistent biases, I tend to think things leave room for coincidence.

 

[k-mac]

Respectively giving some pushback here.

You are conflating the Ring video from O'Keefe's garage camera with the camera from the Canton officer that lived across the street from Brian Albert. Again, example of the shoddy police work being done because LE never subpoenaed that video. They took him on his word that there wasn't anything on that video.

That's why the Prosecutor has John O'Keefe's Ring video - his iphone was the only device paired.

When there are so many inconsistent testimonies from key players, deviation from investigative best practices, and clear consistent biases, I tend to think things leave room for coincidence.

rbbm
The problem with drunks, they all have their own cognitive malfunctions at unfortunately a really important time.

 

[maamager]

rbbm
The problem with drunks, they all have their own cognitive malfunctions at unfortunately a really important time.

Dare I say due to the alcohol or not, it seems many of them have selective amnesia or downright different ideas of what actually happened when, with who, and where.

 

[rrsafety]

Objectively, I am against the defense strategy of recruiting a wife-beater and a witness-intimidator as their main supporter. The subjective factor has to do with the screen, but i yet have to pinpoint what it is.

Could you expound on this?

 

[rrsafety]

Dare I say due to the alcohol or not, it seems many of them have selective amnesia or downright different ideas of what actually happened when, with who, and where.

The PROSECUTION’S witnesses all deny KR appeared drunk.

 

[ch_13]

OCCAM RAZOR.

I hit him.

just can't see the hoops and loops ..volume of people needed to participate in a conspiracy to set up woman....who the accepted facts include but are not limited to below.

drunk as a skunk...caught on video driving recklessly hitting random things in her inebriated state....was at the scene of the crime inthe window necessary.... texts confirming the volatility of this relationship at that moment...multiple people unconnected witnessing her unsolicited confession....her ring camera footage mysteriously vanishes through the night.

its a lot to move past occam razor on the information I seen so far when you are prepared to remove the white noise and simply look at Karen's identifiable actions alone.

I think she will be convicted.

moo

Two points.

First, Occam's Razor only applies after giving both sides a fair hearing. Until you've heard all the trial testimony, then it's inappropriate to use it.

Second, Occam's Razor is not the appropriate standard for a criminal trial. The proper standard is "guilt beyond a reasonable doubt". If at the end of the day all the jury has is the principle of parsimony, then they have to find Karen Read not guilty, as the state has not established their case.


Edit - Reading through your post again, I just wanted to add that I think you have most of the facts incorrect, at least insomuch as they have been testified to at trial.

 

[jepop]

Apparently the medical examiner never took tissue samples from John's wounds. So we'll never know, I guess.

How dodgy and unprofessional. A real wtf situ...moo

 

[ch_13]

Respectfully shortened for brevity. You may be right, but the opposite scenario can be true as well. Imagine that CA spent the evening in a bar, went home, not totally sober, fell asleep and in the morning, heard that KR hit JO with her car. Then KR is arrested, and her defense pulls the usual SODDI trick, only SODDI is CA’s own son. Of whose moral character I know little, but if CA didn’t hear much about JO from his son, and now the situation is inflated for defense purposes, I can imagine him feeling angry. We really don’t know what happened there: it is possible that there was bad blood between CA and JO; likewise, it is not implausible that CA, being young, didn’t think twice of the older dude. If the latter is true, CA as the father has the right to feel angry.

Did you notice how the Albert clan was intent on protecting Colin? Both of his parents testified that he was definitely home by 12:20, long before John O'Keefe got to 34 Fairview. And his aunt never told police that he was there that night.

We now know that their timeline was off, and it's possible he crossed paths with O'Keefe.

Now the fact that Alberts have been circling the wagons doesn't necessarily mean Colin's guilty of anything. The family may just want to protect their children. However, I do know that we'll hear more about the family's attempts to keep Colin out of the investigation, including telling at least one of Colin's friends to keep their mouth shut.

 

[Universecalling]

OCCAM RAZOR.

I hit him.

just can't see the hoops and loops ..volume of people needed to participate in a conspiracy to set up woman....who the accepted facts include but are not limited to below.

drunk as a skunk...caught on video driving recklessly hitting random things in her inebriated state....was at the scene of the crime inthe window necessary.... texts confirming the volatility of this relationship at that moment...multiple people unconnected witnessing her unsolicited confession....her ring camera footage mysteriously vanishes through the night.

its a lot to move past occam razor on the information I seen so far when you are prepared to remove the white noise and simply look at Karen's identifiable actions alone.

I think she will be convicted.

moo

Your statement could have some legs if we go with an improbability of a “set up” by the sheer volume of people involved.

I don’t get the feeling that majority of people here or the defense team are taking the “set up” literally or planned from the start.
It is more along the lines of “a close friend or a family member got in the fight w JO, they kicked him out (or left him out if the fight was outside). In the morning JM is summoned by KR,she tells her family, they realize “oh s*** he died” and the damage control starts there. If Karen said she hit him, even in a question form, that gave them some boost that it could work to help them distance everyone from it. Then it snowballed bc they didn’t have enough proper evidence so they kept improvising to make it fit better.”

The sheer lack of care for the proper investigation, the fact that 2 hrs later there was no sign anything had gone on there when JA brings the donuts is astounding.

Just recently in my neighborhood, a person was found on an easement barely breathing (appeared to be a hit and run) and the cops were there for hours measuring. Multi agencies involved. Lots of cars. When it was done, there was a LE car that stayed parked almost all day.
The person was exercising in the morning and got hit; they didn’t pass away until weeks later.

 

[Universecalling]

And, it might have been that, or something very different. KR was JO’s GF of two years. It is quite likely that he was not alone before, and it could simply be so that the residents of Canton preferred his other friends over KR. In fact, this was the first thing that came to my mind.

I have yet to see a witness from the Albert web that stated they were friends with either JO or KR.
As a matter of fact, most said they didn’t even know KR, and only knew JO in passing, if that.
Camerota’s (sp?) where the only ones that were close with them.

 

[waldojabba]

Let me respectfully disagree. I think it is “TV factor in action”, if you will. It has little to do with the woman’s achievements/mishaps. After certain events eight years ago, a book was published; its title started with “Unlikable:”. I was shocked with what many people projected on the persona-in-question (and that I absolutely failed to see). But, this is how people, sadly, make the choice in situations far more important than answering who killed a cop in a tiny snowed in hamlet. Even in the situations important for all of us, the decision is often based on looks, or who the person reminds you of, or even pure recognition factor.

The real question: why some people are “instantly likable” and some, not, is very interesting from the sociology perspective. My opinion of KR is not jealousy-based: I am interested in overachieving women, as there is a lot to learn from them.

Objectively, I am against the defense strategy of recruiting a wife-beater and a witness-intimidator as their main supporter. The subjective factor has to do with the screen, but i yet have to pinpoint what it is.

There’s a lot to unpack here -
- wondering in what context or on what basis you characterize KR as an “ overachieving” woman ?
- as far as the blogger / I look at him as a bit of a distraction - I had never heard of him before but he seemed effective in spreading a message early on and doggedly looking for facts and connections that many may have preferred to remain hidden. Right now I think he is struggling to be relevant.
Is he a bully and a bit unhinged - probably but many of the witnesses seem to present also along those lines also.
Maybe it takes a local to get under the skin / of the other locals. I think he understands and can work the environment.
JO and KR were not locals. JO grew up in Braintree and iirc lived in Boston a bit before
2013 ish when he moved to Canton to take care of his sisters kids who were 3 and 6 at the time. Neither were inside what i like to call the “circle of trust” in this crowd. This stuff is important around here.
And to me that is glaring.
The Albert’s did not go out to take care of JO bc he really was not one of their own. Not even a blanket. Cold cold cold. Chloe’s behavior after 7 yrs in that home was unsurprising to me. The behavior may have even been rewarded.
If you have ever moved somewhere or worked somewhere where you were perceived as “other” or an outsider - for really no reason but perhaps just perceived differences in socio economic/education /background etc. You will know what I mean. The undercurrent will work overtime behind the scene to “take you out”.
JMO

 

[Universecalling]

There’s a lot to unpack here -
- wondering in what context or on what basis you characterize KR as an “ overachieving” woman ?
- as far as the blogger / I look at him as a bit of a distraction - I had never heard of him before but he seemed effective in spreading a message early on and doggedly looking for facts and connections that many may have preferred to remain hidden. Right now I think he is struggling to be relevant.
Is he a bully and a bit unhinged - probably but many of the witnesses seem to present also along those lines also.
Maybe it takes a local to get under the skin / of the other locals. I think he understands and can work the environment.
JO and KR were not locals. JO grew up in Braintree and iirc lived in Boston a bit before
2013 ish when he moved to Canton to take care of his sisters kids who were 3 and 6 at the time. Neither were inside what i like to call the “circle of trust” in this crowd. This stuff is important around here.
And to me that is glaring.
The Albert’s did not go out to take care of JO bc he really was not one of their own. Not even a blanket. Cold cold cold. Chloe’s behavior after 7 yrs in that home was unsurprising to me. The behavior may have even been rewarded.
If you have ever moved somewhere or worked somewhere where you were perceived as “other” or an outsider - for really no reason but perhaps just perceived differences in socio economic/education /background etc. You will know what I mean. The undercurrent will work overtime behind the scene to “take you out”.
JMO

I’m quoting your post because it needs to be emphasized.
100%!!!!

 

[housewife]

if that phone data is accurate, it's pretty damning evidence as far as a timeline and really puts the defense in a pickle.

good luck with many of whatabout theories - i guess they're trying to say he was confronted in the yard by someone else (Colin?). but, unless Apple is participating in a cover up, he never made it from the car into the house or anything like that and was mortally wounded and not moving by 12:32 AM.

and let me help with the "running" assertion... 1) my guess is that data might be tied to the car pulling up and slowing down/parking or milling around outside the car before he was hit. i feel like apple health data used to be confused by stuff (various vehicle movement) like that, a bit... but a technical expert would certainly be a smart person for the prosecution to have on the stand. HOWEVER... 2) if that data is correct... and it is being asserted that this shows "running" - have you considered that what it shows is JO moved 287 feet over 3 minutes and 12 seconds?

There are 5280 feet in a mile.
5280 feet/287 feet = 18.4.
18.4 * 3 minutes and 12 seconds = 58 minutes and 42 seconds to cover a mile.

ChatGPT tells me that creatures that move at this pace include: garden snails, sloths, tortoises, and sea anemones. Anecdotally, I can state that I walk at a pace of about 16 or 17 minutes per mile.

I was going back to figure out what I missed this morning. I think I stopped reading your post at the "good luck with many of whatabout theories" so I didn't see the rest.

You are right! JO was moving at roughly 1mph for 3 minutes around his arrival at BA's house. My math sucks.
I was wrong to assume he was running during that time.

 

[Wishbone]

I have yet to see a witness from the Albert web that stated they were friends with either JO or KR.
As a matter of fact, most said they didn’t even know KR, and only knew JO in passing, if that.
Camerota’s (sp?) where the only ones that were close with them.

It's hard for me to accept that JO was lured to the Albert house with the intention of harming him. But the more I hear about the night of the party, the more questions I have.The whole way the invitation came about for JO struck me as strange.Central to the strangeness is JM being an active player throughout the entire episode. Then KR's questioning if they really were actually welcome at the Albert after party, which she never got an answer to. In addition these particular people didn't seem to socially mingle much,so why now? And had something happened between KR and BH as has been alluded to? The defense seems to point the finger at BH as it accuses him of coercing JO to the party. I have more questions than answers so I will be waiting to hear how the defense puts this all together.

Higgins, an ATF agent, “coaxed”O’Keefe to the Albert house and later destroyed his phone, Read’s defense team has alleged.

Owners of home where John O’Keefe was found dead testify in Karen Read trial

Friday marked Day 9 of the high-profile Karen Read murder trial and the homeowners where John O’Keefe was found dead took the stand.

www.boston25news.com

 

[shotgun09]

The anticipated cross of big Brian A on Monday should prove interesting. Defense job is to discredit any state witness who lays guilt on their client. Big Brian hasn't really said 'boo' about KR in his direct exam, however the CW opened many doors for cross with their questioning.

I like Yanettis' style. He's quick. He's sharp. Hopefully, he will go deep into BA's 'spa-hhing' history. His MMA history.
Let's talk about you 'fooling around' in the bah.
The friendship history and scene timing with Higgins ought to go somewhere. On Chloe??? This should be epic ! The Albert family and the CW were totally complicit in NOT giving the requested 're-homing' information (evidence) to the defense. Ms Little was able to get a few questions in regarding the lack of cooperation with Nicole Albert regarding the dog. The 'cover-up' is clear. I believe Yanetti will attempt to expand on that with Big Brian. And it won't be lost on the jury.
Also, the protective cloud of invisibility over Colin Albert that seems to emanate from every member of the Albert family ( and Proctor) will come into focus.
The jurors will be tasting cover-up and corruption after big Brian. IMO

Looking forward to it.

 

[keek]

It's hard for me to accept that JO was lured to the Albert house with the intention of harming him. But the more I hear about the night of the party, the more questions I have.The whole way the invitation came about for JO struck me as strange.Central to the strangeness is JM being an active player throughout the entire episode. Then KR's questioning if they really were actually welcome at the Albert after party, which she never got an answer to. In addition these particular people didn't seem to socially mingle much,so why now? And had something happened between KR and BH as has been alluded to? The defense seems to point the finger at BH as it accuses him of coercing JO to the party. I have more questions than answers so I will be waiting to hear how the defense puts this all together.

Higgins, an ATF agent, “coaxed”O’Keefe to the Albert house and later destroyed his phone, Read’s defense team has alleged.

Owners of home where John O’Keefe was found dead testify in Karen Read trial

Friday marked Day 9 of the high-profile Karen Read murder trial and the homeowners where John O’Keefe was found dead took the stand.

www.boston25news.com

Wasn't it said 'somewhere' that KR had some sort of something with BH? This reminded me as I haven't seen that it was BH that coaxed JO, but JM.
In the beginning of the information about this case, my impression, reading at the time was that JO was lured to that house too. It seemed that it was KR that wanted to go and JO went along, but now it's that KR was not 'in' with them really at all. I just had had that feeling then.
It was late, storm to come, already had been out partying, why not just go home unless that feeling of wanting to just keep it going due to both of them being 'buzzed' still.

WHY BOTHER??? What was the draw? I haven't read or have seen the defense's info on the BH thing though, his phone destroyed, also KR suddenly just not attending, but JO got out, was he already out of the car when she changed her mind?

 

[Wishbone]

Wasn't it said 'somewhere' that KR had some sort of something with BH? This reminded me as I haven't seen that it was BH that coaxed JO, but JM.
In the beginning of the information about this case, my impression, reading at the time was that JO was lured to that house too. It seemed that it was KR that wanted to go and JO went along, but now it's that KR was not 'in' with them really at all. I just had had that feeling then.
It was late, storm to come, already had been out partying, why not just go home unless that feeling of wanting to just keep it going due to both of them being 'buzzed' still.

WHY BOTHER??? What was the draw? I haven't read or have seen the defense's info on the BH thing though, his phone destroyed, also KR suddenly just not attending, but JO got out, was he already out of the car when she changed her mind?

Found a little about KR and BH but not sure of any of it at this point. But contrary to what BH says, a kiss on the lips could be considered sexual IMO

O’Keefe wasn’t the only one accused of being unfaithful. Prosecutors reportedly recovered texts that were“romantic in nature” between Read and one of O’Keefe’s friends. She also allegedly tried to kiss a friend of O’Keefe’s named Brian Higgins, saying she knew where all the cameras in his house were so they could smooch undetected.
ttps://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/karen-read-trial-peeling-back-the-layers-of-a-complicated-case-as-jury-selection-begins/

According to court documents, Higgins told investigators Read “surprised him with a kiss on the lips” a few weeks earlier, when he went over to O’Keefe’s house to watch a New England Patriots game. Prosecutors said Higgins and Read exchanged romantic text messages in the weeks before O’Keefe died,but their relationship reportedly wasn’t sexual.

Karen Read case: A guide to who’s who in this high-profile murder investigation

Karen Read’s sensational murder case heads to trial later this month. These are the key players you need to know.

www.boston.com