Found Deceased MA - Zachary Marr, 22, Boston, 13 Feb 2016 #2

[carbuff]

Actually, Massachusetts is pretty strict on establishments who over-serve customers. Not only does the establishment get in trouble but the server or bartender can get fines and even jail time for over serving a patron who then goes on to drive. Even if they aren't driving, the establishment is responsible for them because if they are drunk they could fall and break their leg, or in this case go for a walk and end up in the water. If a patron enters and establishment and is already drunk, you are not allowed to serve them, but you are responsible for their safety. You have to do your best to keep them there and wait for them to sober up, call someone for them and if they refuse and try to drive, call the police. If the bar really wouldn't let him in to get his coat and people he was with, they are liable for this. If it is found that he was very intoxicated (not sure how they will be able to tell) but they will be liable in that case as well. I don't have a source for all of this but I am a bartender in Massachusetts which is how I know. I had to get TIP certified in the past which is where I originally learned how strict the state of Massachusetts is with this.

Wow. I did not know that.

That is...

...I mean, seriously. Bird in Hand holds like 1200 people. They're expected to know the inebriation state of all of them and call cabs to get them home?

Why are there any bars even operating in Boston?

I guess I will have to take back what I said about expecting people to have some responsibility for themselves...

 

[Eileen730]

So you're saying that the bars in Boston are personally responsible for seeing that roughly 10,000 students in varying degrees of drunkeness get home safely no matter what?

Well....Yes!
You don't let ppl drive drunk.
they shouldn't toss them out on the street either!
JMO

 

[queenb3577]

Wow. I did not know that.

That is...

...I mean, seriously. Bird in Hand holds like 1200 people. They're expected to know the inebriation state of all of them and call cabs to get them home?

Why are there any bars even operating in Boston?

I guess I will have to take back what I said about expecting people to have some responsibility for themselves...

Oh I know, it's like personal responsibility doesn't exist. Just, as bartenders, you have to pay attention, there are plenty of signs that someone is intoxicated and you need to know them and know when to stop serving them. I'm sure that place has servers as well and they should know the same. Definitely do not have to call cabs for everyone but if someone is clearly very drunk then yes figure out who they are with, call them a cab, do what you have to do. We don't know how much he drank or if the bar really wouldn't let him in or not. I tend to believe that if they did tell him he couldn't come in, they should have had someone escort him to get his coat and inform the people he was with. The Bell in Hand has some reviews on their Facebook page which can shed some light on how their bouncers and managers act which leads me to believe he was on his way for a cigarette and was thrown out by a bouncer or really did try to get in and was told he could not. JMO

 

[CARIIS]

So you're saying that the bars in Boston are personally responsible for seeing that roughly 10,000 students in varying degrees of drunkeness get home safely no matter what?

Can bars and clubs legally be held liable for the actions of their patrons once they leave?


In short, the answer in many states is “yes.”

......case law in 38 states which makes a business which sells alcoholic drinks or a host who serves liquor to a drinker who is obviously intoxicated or close to it, strictly liable to anyone injured by the drunken patron or guest.

• Many states hold commercial vendors of alcohol, such as bars, taverns and package stores responsible for injury caused by drunk patrons
• Laws in most states require the injured person suing a commercial alcohol vendor to prove that the serving of alcohol was a "proximate cause" of the injury
• Commercial vendors are liable for injuries caused by an intoxicated customer if they serve liquor to him after he was visibly intoxicated
• An employer throwing an office party is liable for any bad misconduct or harassment on the part of an employee if the employee was acting within the scope of his employment and the employer failed to take reasonable preventative steps

victim of a drunk driver who went bar-hopping before driving intoxicated? Were you assaulted as a bystander by a drunk patron in a bar fight or a brawl outside a tavern? You may have a right to sue the bar under what are called "dram shop

• The vendor was reckless in serving or should have realized the extent of the patron's intoxication

"clear danger to himself and others."


should have been "foreseeable" to a bar employee serving him or her that the person was already "visibly intoxicated" and shouldn't be served any more alcohol.


I think they use "wrongful death" from that one that sued for 2.5 mill

Read more: http://dictionary.law.com/default.aspx?selected=584#ixzz41IWfmghx
http://dictionary.law.com/default.aspx?selected=584
http://business-law.lawyers.com/business-litigation/bar-liability-for-alcohol-injuries.html

 

[frisson]

Originally posted by frisson
For me, if folks are being put out in freezing (and below) temperatures without their belongings which are in the establishment, - hat, coat, wallet, keys, phone or any combination of above, then one person ending up dead is one too many.

I agree with the mention above, call the cops if they need to; call a cab; but don't leave a person outside.... especially someone who has been drinking and we can presume that people drink at a bar. Even if someone were drinking plain 7Up, they don't need to be denied re entry in minus 9 degree weather imo.

So you're saying that the bars in Boston are personally responsible for seeing that roughly 10,000 students in varying degrees of drunkeness get home safely no matter what?

I do think that a person is entitled to retrieve their own property that is inside. What if someone's keys are in their coat that is checked? Or a wallet. Even the coat alone is helpful on a cold night. Going out for a smoke shouldn't ban someone from their own possessions. imo. Of course most adults can see themselves home, but they need their coat and keys or should be able to wait inside if it is minus 9 degrees particularly if they are planning to leave/ride with other patrons of the bar - which was the case here it seems.

If there is room for him to be in the bar to purchase drinks, then there is room to let him back in to get his things and wait for or rejoin his party with whom he plans to leave. ..... to leave safely with his family - with whom he arrived.
Wow.

 

[Eileen730]

So you're saying that the bars in Boston are personally responsible for seeing that roughly 10,000 students in varying degrees of drunkeness get home safely no matter what?

They can be held responsible! Especially if they are drunk!
the bars can loose their lic.

 

[frisson]

Actually, Massachusetts is pretty strict on establishments who over-serve customers. Not only does the establishment get in trouble but the server or bartender can get fines and even jail time for over serving a patron who then goes on to drive. Even if they aren't driving, the establishment is responsible for them because if they are drunk they could fall and break their leg, or in this case go for a walk and end up in the water. If a patron enters and establishment and is already drunk, you are not allowed to serve them, but you are responsible for their safety. You have to do your best to keep them there and wait for them to sober up, call someone for them and if they refuse and try to drive, call the police. If the bar really wouldn't let him in to get his coat and people he was with, they are liable for this. If it is found that he was very intoxicated (not sure how they will be able to tell) but they will be liable in that case as well. I don't have a source for all of this but I am a bartender in Massachusetts which is how I know. I had to get TIP certified in the past which is where I originally learned how strict the state of Massachusetts is with this.

Thank you for this post.

 

[CARIIS]

An Austell sports bar has agreed to pay $1 million to the widow

lawsuit was filed against a bar a $10,650,000


bar owner can be held responsible .............

[h=1]$275,000 Awarded in Bar ......[/h]
New Jersey woman recently settled... $750,000



http://www.tremontsheldon.com/News-...75-000-Awarded-in-Bar-Over-Serving-Case.shtml
http://www.burunsuzyanlaw.com/blog/...lity-does-a-bar-have-to-injured-patrons.shtml

http://www.jenningslawoffice.com/Verdicts-and-settlements.shtml

http://www.alertdriving.com/home/fl...ches-1-million-settlement-wrongful-death-suit

 

[CARIIS]

They can be held responsible! Especially if they are drunk!
the bars can loose their lic.

And lots of cash - this one has been relativily covered in local open there....there is just a cruelty feeling to it

They are in heap of trouble -- IMO if they find the pweon responsible I think he/ she can be personally charged IMO

 

[CARIIS]

Thank you for this post.

I, also thank you for this post! I have been surprised at the controversial flavor this part of the story had had. Of ourse they are in huge legal problem!

At some point he would die of hypothermaia.

I think BIH will be up for sale soon!

 

[CARIIS]

re: expecting people to have some responsibility for themselves...

I hear ya - however we all know alcohol impairs judgement so that is kinda like two edged sword!

 

[frisson]

The text messages from him outside to his cousin inside say it all for me., "Stuck outside." "let's leave. " There's his intent right there. (imo).

 

[Esse]

HAs the family said anything ? The only thing I remember is in the very beginning?

A little bit here:

http://www.harvardpress.com/News/News-Articles/ID/15343/Harvard-family-awaits-news-of-missing-son

 

[Vail]

hi folks

The notion that the bridge is suppossed to have gapping holes in it is bizairre. IWhy in the picture shown are 9 men filling it in with plywood right aftert this?

This bridge is not intended for foot traffic.

 

[wendybtn]

Well....Yes!
You don't let ppl drive drunk.
they shouldn't toss them out on the street either!
JMO

Once people go out the door drunk, how does the bar staff know whether they will be driving or not? Ubering? Taxi? Train? Passenger in a car with a drunk driver?

 

[wendybtn]

Actually, Massachusetts is pretty strict on establishments who over-serve customers. Not only does the establishment get in trouble but the server or bartender can get fines and even jail time for over serving a patron who then goes on to drive. Even if they aren't driving, the establishment is responsible for them because if they are drunk they could fall and break their leg, or in this case go for a walk and end up in the water. If a patron enters and establishment and is already drunk, you are not allowed to serve them, but you are responsible for their safety. You have to do your best to keep them there and wait for them to sober up, call someone for them and if they refuse and try to drive, call the police. If the bar really wouldn't let him in to get his coat and people he was with, they are liable for this. If it is found that he was very intoxicated (not sure how they will be able to tell) but they will be liable in that case as well. I don't have a source for all of this but I am a bartender in Massachusetts which is how I know. I had to get TIP certified in the past which is where I originally learned how strict the state of Massachusetts is with this.

About how many customers a night would you have to warn off and watch get home in a club with 500 people in it? How often would you or other bartenders get arrested on misdemeanor charges?

 

[jggordo]

I co-owned a restaurant and dance club in Kansas City for almost 15 years. We had a 3 AM liquor license. Not many clubs have them and 2 AM is the norm. The most crucial time in a club is the last hour of being open, IMO. The time frames have to be followed due to liquor laws of each given state. Last call at 30 minutes before legal closing time. Front door locked and no new entrance into club. At this time all security splits up and goes to exit doors. The entrance door is no longer manned. ALL security, managers and bartenders are in closing the club mode at this time forward. Clearing 500-1000 people from the club within 45 minutes is not as easy as it seems, especially with 2 levels.

These times are pretty universal no matter what state. We and most other clubs maintain a log book communicating any incidents that take place during shifts. Video all over the place as well. Customers are very aware of these times, also the music STOPS and the LIGHTS GO UP 15 minutes prior to legal closing at the LATEST.

The knee jerk reaction to a tragedy like this is to find and place blame. Blaming the club at this point IMO is premature at least. Even if he DID go to the door does not mean he was turned away. There probably wasn't anyone staffed there to unlock the door at that time.

I am not blaming the victim in the least, yet I believe it was a decision or two that turned out to be fatal. IMO he had several options before him that did not involve him even walking across the tracks

Not a popular opinion for sure, but mine at any rate.

 

[Esse]

I had been wondering if dogs were used. This article states that they are searching today in one of two areas pointed to by a search dog.

http://www.universalhub.com/2016/divers-return-charles-near-north-station-search

 

[TMAN2014]

I co-owned a restaurant and dance club in Kansas City for almost 15 years. We had a 3 AM liquor license. Not many clubs have them and 2 AM is the norm. The most crucial time in a club is the last hour of being open, IMO. The time frames have to be followed due to liquor laws of each given state. Last call at 30 minutes before legal closing time. Front door locked and no new entrance into club. At this time all security splits up and goes to exit doors. The entrance door is no longer manned. ALL security, managers and bartenders are in closing the club mode at this time forward. Clearing 500-1000 people from the club within 45 minutes is not as easy as it seems, especially with 2 levels.

These times are pretty universal no matter what state. We and most other clubs maintain a log book communicating any incidents that take place during shifts. Video all over the place as well. Customers are very aware of these times, also the music STOPS and the LIGHTS GO UP 15 minutes prior to legal closing at the LATEST.

The knee jerk reaction to a tragedy like this is to find and place blame. Blaming the club at this point IMO is premature at least. Even if he DID go to the door does not mean he was turned away. There probably wasn't anyone staffed there to unlock the door at that time.

I am not blaming the victim in the least, yet I believe it was a decision or two that turned out to be fatal. IMO he had several options before him that did not involve him even walking across the tracks

Not a popular opinion for sure, but mine at any rate.

Good post. I was going to post something similar, but held off. Sometimes in life, we are our own worst enemy by making poor decisions. I certainly made many of them. At the end of the day, we have to be responsible for the decisions we make.

 

[sun16]

Boats/Divers/Dogs found nothing again today, right?