Discussion in '2010's Missing' started by bakerlady, Sep 9, 2014.
:bump: Is the hearing still tomorrow, Sept. 15th?
[h=1]Mom of Missing Kids Indicted for Murder: Sources[/h]A Maryland mother has been indicted for the murders of her two children who have been missing in Montgomery County since 2014, sources familiar with the investigation tell News4.
Catherine Hoggle has an appearance in Montgomery County Circuit Court on Friday and she has been indicted on two counts of murder, according to the sources.
Source: Mom of Missing Kids Indicted for Murder: Sources - NBC4 Washington http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...icted-for-Murder-444570423.html#ixzz4siO45Snn
I think this was the right decision by LE and I hope it leads to the recovery of Sarah and Jacob. Their mom has been gaming the system for far too long, refusing to aid in the effort for her to become competent because she knew she could drag this out and avoid jail.
Too bad they can't secretly record her words and daily actions to prove that she is in fact quite competent.
[h=1]Catherine Hoggle due in court after being indicted in murder of children[/h]
Does this change anything though? She is still going to play the system and pretend she isn't competent because she knows she is going to jail. She will still do anything to avoid being found competent to defend herself, so is she ever going to have to go to trial?
I think she will HAVE to reveal what happened to the children if she hopes to plea bargain. I think that being confined to a mental facility is much more to her liking than prison life. She must know that, at this point, those are her only options. (IMO)
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[h=1]Hoggle ordered held without bond on murder charges[/h]
I just heard about these kids today in Charley Project's updates I've looked over the last few pages in this thread (there's almost 60 of them).
Catherine is technically and legally is "crazy" due to being locked up for mental health reasons. But I haven't seen anything (unless there's something in the pages of this thread that I skipped over that would suggest it) that she is a violent person. I didn't see anything to suggest that she would hurt (as in kill) her kids. She may have abandoned them somewhere, which would be neglect, but she doesn't sound like she would have murdered her children as she is now charged.
Does anybody know more about her that would suggest her somehow killing her kids?
Many of the same thoughts I've been having. From what I have read, the biggest piece of evidence the prosecution has in this case is the fact that the kids are simply nowhere to be found; thus, murder. This case will be tried as a "no-body homicide." These cases are usually trickier, but that does not mean that they are impossible to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. The prosecution just has their work cut out for them.
I created a thread awhile back on a "missing" Maryland woman, Lisa Lau, whose longtime domestic partner Gregory Tu was charged and convicted of her murder, and is still behind bars to this day (and may be for years to come - this happened in late '80s by the way). In this particular case, Lisa's remains were never found, but traces of her blood in the car and on the floor indicated that a homicide had taken place. Mr. Tu never actually pled guilty or accepted any kind of plea bargain. In doing this, he refused to give Lisa's family any closure by admitting guilt or revealing what he did with the body. Yet, he's in prison (up for parole in a few years, though).
So, it is very much possible for an individual to be successfully convicted of homicide without a body in the state of Maryland. Naturally, I hope against hope that Sarah and Jacob were not harmed by their mother. Having followed this story in the news for so long, I feel like I would have come across some tidbit of information that would have provided me with an inkling of what this woman was capable of. Instead, the narrative seems to be that she was by all accounts a devoted and attentive mother who, by the time her third child Jacob was born, began to descend into erratic behavior.
I read with interest Dan Morse's compassionate account of her behavior leading up to Sarah and Jacob's disappearance (Washington Post). The portrait he paints is that of a woman who was plagued by paranoid visions, doing things like accusing Troy's sister of stealing her kids' clothes and toys. She and Troy lived together for several years, had 3 kids and were a family but remember, they were never legally married. I guess she started getting all paranoid on him as well, and that's when he called the cops the first time. If I'm remembering the article correctly, she was committed twice, involuntarily. I didn't get any sense of her being a danger to anyone, just that she was being delusional and thought that their family was being spied on, that someone was trying to perform an exorcism on her, et cetera. Weird stuff, but no signs of aggression or mistreatment/neglect of the kids or anyone else. If she lashed out violently towards anyone, it sure wasn't mentioned in any article I read. Now, there is a DUI on her record, which is public knowledge. And, she got hit with driving while her license was suspended. That's a red flag, obviously, but it doesn't exactly mean she was capable of killing her children.
I'm glad we have due process in this country because it's starting to get pretty ugly on social media. Literally people calling for the woman's head before the trial has even begun, and making wild speculations about other family members possibly being involved. It's shameful. But if her family members are called to the stand to testify (and they no doubt will be providing testimony), there could indeed be some insights into whether she was capable of hurting the children. Right now, there's just no tangible evidence and anything could be true, or untrue...
I came to this case through a BrainScratch Searchlight (really great show) review on youtube and reading through the comments there I too was bit aghast by the way everyone assumed that this lady, who as you say didn't seem to have a history of abuse against her children, suddenly decided to just up and murder them? The bond between the vast majority of parents and their children is so strong and I can't see why this conclusion would be reached with no apparent evidence at all?
I should say I have a personal viewpoint as I grew up with my mother who developed severe depression and then paranoid schizophrenia, with several relapses due to her stopping her medication. I am also former nurse and have worked with many schizophrenic patients, again very few have been violent and then mostly because they are trying to defend themselves whilst hallucinating or whatever.
My own thoughts were that Catherine felt extremely anxious and became paranoid (yes, that's why she is diagnosed!) as apparently her husband admits that he wanted to separate from her and that without him she might well lose custody/access to her children. Incidentally, maybe she wasn't being paranoid, there is still huge prejudice against people with a psychiatric illness. They may need more support with children but again to draw the conclusion that oh, she's schizophrenic, she must be a murderer of her own kids, seems to me a very wild assumption. So I would hope she has taken them to a trusted friend or in the underground fostering network that I have heard exists for parents in bitter custody disputes.
I totally appreciate that it's agony for the father and rest of the family (and awful for the missing children) but trust me, if you back someone with this disorder into a corner they will stick to their course of action and can be unbelievably immovable, because all they will see is an enemy trying to attack them. I find it hard to understand that the husband/grandparents don't recognize this pattern, they must have seen it before many, many times. Why did no-one try to reassure this lady (once she'd been stabilized with medication) that she would not lose her rights to her children, supervised visitation if necessary and take the heat out of this situation years ago? Too many police and lawyers here, not enough common sense.
Also, I would have a "little chat"with the nurses at this hospital, with such a long stay patient, they will have a good idea of what's going on with this lady. Of course they can't break confidentiality but I am sure if they found anything out that would help the children's well-being, if please God they are still alive, that information would have found its way out. Fingers crossed for these little ones.
Update: [FONT=Open Sans, Arial, sans-serif]Hoggle’s trial is scheduled to begin Feb. 12, 2018.[/FONT]
[FONT=Open Sans, Arial, sans-serif]Key word here being 'scheduled.' Still needs to be found competent, at the same facility (Clifton T. Perkins) she was before these new charges were brought. If they couldn't find her competent before, I'm not sure how anything is going to radically change now. If anything, the homicide indictment will only make her retreat further and not want to work with the doctors to become well again. So, not exactly sure how they're hoping to suddenly get her competent at this place, when they couldn't before - especially with the trial date coming up so soon.[/FONT]
I don't know of any history of violence, but I think that most women who kill their children due to mental illness have no history of violence. They're not violent people, but their illness made them think that killing their children was the right thing to do. In their mind, it was the only way to save or protect their children. JMO.
Catherine Hoggle again found not competent to stand trial
Can we post links from Facebook pages? I am not sure if it is a confirmed source or not, but the Facebook page for Jacob and Sarah released a status/statement today.
[h=1]Father of Kids Missing for Three Years Shares His Anguish: ‘There’s No Easy Days’[/h]
Read More: http://people.com/crime/troy-turner-speaks-missing-kids-sarah-jacob-hoggle/
they also have a new fb page.
On the front cover of People next to Prince Harry's wedding headline... Great exposure for the kids.