Meredith Kercher murdered - Amanda Knox convicted, now appeals #7

[otto]

The prosecutor didn't need a PR firm. He had a lurid story to tell, misinformation to divulge, diaries to secretly release, etc. The parents were left to combat a barrage of pre-trial publicity in a foreign country and often in a language they didn't speak.

So you enjoyed the movie? I think there were some errors, but the facts of the case came through. The Knox PR firm did a pretty good job of keeping most evidence under their hats, but that's all over now.

 

[otto]

Because I share a TV with two other family members, I couldn't watch or tape the movie last night. (I'm taping a rebroadcast later in the week.)

But I did see about 15 minutes of it between 9:45 and 10 p.m., and I have a question.

The film shows RS calmly telling a single, very gentle interrogator that AK left his apartment at 9pm and didn't return until 1am.

We've all heard that RS said he couldn't be sure of AK's whereabouts all night, but this is the first I've heard of him giving a precise timeframe during which she was away. If this actually happened, I can't believe otto, dgfred and flourish wouldn't have mentioned it.

Does anyone have any idea where the filmmakers got this alleged testimony?

I have mentioned several times that Raffaele has not given Amanda an alibi, and he has said that he cannot be sure that Amanda was with him through the night, but she was there in the morning when he woke up. Cell phone records place Knox away from Raffaele's apt at about 8:45, and that has been discussed here.

 

[Nova]

:seeya:I'm not an expert on this case or even all the way off the fence yet...I caught bits of the movie but haven't watched the whole thing yet. I don't know whether or not that piece was accurate. And, LOL, otto, dgfred, and I aren't some sort of conglomerate, we just tend to agree with each other a lot

I'm so sorry, flourish! I did not mean to suggest you three had achieved some sort of mind meld and were all speaking as one.

I meant that all three of you have extensive knowledge of the case and I was surprised none of you had mentioned (during the time I've been reading here) such a damning accusation. Now that I think back, you all probably did mention it and I just didn't realize that RS had ever been so specific.

My reference to the three of you was supposed to be high praise and I screwed it up with bad wording.

Again, I apologize.

 

[Nova]

1- We were together all night surfing the computer. (initial alibi)
2- Not sure if AK left or not. (confusion)
3- AK left and returned about 1am. (threw AK under the bus, which caused her to accuse Patrick)
4- Back to the 'we were together all night'.
5- Maybe there is something on the computer that shows we were there all night... so that is what we did. (Reverse back to the original alibi)

*Just pick one, IMO that is what his defense has been doing. :innocent:

Thank you very much, fred.

So the basic trajectory of RS' statements more or less matches that of AK's statements:

1. Rock solid alibi.
2. Bends to pressure of interrogation.
3. Accuses someone else.
4. Returns to alibi.

As with AK, the sequence is entirely consistent with someone dealing poorly with the pressure of interrogation.

Perhaps it's also consistent with a guilty suspect lying badly, but it's harder for me to follow the train of thinking if that was the case.

 

[Nova]

So you enjoyed the movie? I think there were some errors, but the facts of the case came through. The Knox PR firm did a pretty good job of keeping most evidence under their hats, but that's all over now.

Sorry I wasn't clear. I haven't seen the movie except for about 10 minutes halfway through. My DVR is set to tape a re-broadcast later in the week.

 

[Nova]

I have mentioned several times that Raffaele has not given Amanda an alibi, and he has said that he cannot be sure that Amanda was with him through the night, but she was there in the morning when he woke up. Cell phone records place Knox away from Raffaele's apt at about 8:45, and that has been discussed here.

Yes, I knew RS had retracted (at least temporarily) his alibi for AK. I just didn't realize he had given such specific times.

And I do remember the discussions about the cell phone records at 8:45, but I'm not sure whether this is one of those cases where the cell phone tower evidence is contested.

 

[otto]

Thank you very much, fred.

So the basic trajectory of RS' statements more or less matches that of AK's statements:

1. Rock solid alibi.
2. Bends to pressure of interrogation.
3. Accuses someone else.
4. Returns to alibi.

As with AK, the sequence is entirely consistent with someone dealing poorly with the pressure of interrogation.

Perhaps it's also consistent with a guilty suspect lying badly, but it's harder for me to follow the train of thinking if that was the case.

Raffaele actually says that he lied because Amanda asked him to lie, but that he didn't think of the inconsistencies at the time.

 

[otto]

Yes, I knew RS had retracted (at least temporarily) his alibi for AK. I just didn't realize he had given such specific times.

And I do remember the discussions about the cell phone records at 8:45, but I'm not sure whether this is one of those cases where the cell phone tower evidence is contested.

It is not contested.

 

[missyjane77]

How reliable is cell phone pinging?

 

[Allusonz]

How reliable is cell phone pinging?

Cell phones ping off of towers in the area. If there are 2 cell phone towers they determine the length of time it takes for that towers cell phone ping to reach the phone which can determine a middle point but that middle area can be quite a long distance

If there are 3 cell phone towers they can triangulate to give a pretty specific gps location it is called triangulation and actually was done in the Zahra Baker case

Sometimes though people think the cell tower ping itself is the cell phone ping which is obviously very different

Why do you ask?

 

[Malkmus]

How reliable is cell phone pinging?

Not very. IIRC, according to Frank from Perugia Shock and who attended the trial, the expert who testified about "pinging" had a hard time explaining it and said it wasn't an exact science or something along those lines. But more importantly, we all know that Patrik's cell phone pinging placed him near the cottage when he was actually at work.

 

[otto]

How reliable is cell phone pinging?

Is it considered reliable in a US court?

 

[Nova]

Raffaele actually says that he lied because Amanda asked him to lie, but that he didn't think of the inconsistencies at the time.

Does that mean he stands by the 9 to 1 absence?

 

[Nova]

Not very. IIRC, according to Frank from Perugia Shock and who attended the trial, the expert who testified about "pinging" had a hard time explaining it and said it wasn't an exact science or something along those lines. But more importantly, we all know that Patrik's cell phone pinging placed him near the cottage when he was actually at work.

That's what I thought: that in this very case we have an example where the cell phone pinging is a bad indicator of the phone's location. Thanks for the reminder.

This is partly why I have trouble believing that AK was gone from the cottage at 8:45 when her phone received the text from PL. There seems to be no reason for her to lie about this.

 

[Allusonz]

Not very. IIRC, according to Frank from Perugia Shock and who attended the trial, the expert who testified about "pinging" had a hard time explaining it and said it wasn't an exact science or something along those lines. But more importantly, we all know that Patrik's cell phone pinging placed him near the cottage when he was actually at work.

yup it is a too lfor LE but not an exact science as again there can be many variables

it is not unusual in some places in some states for example to ping off of a tower in Mexico even if you are in the states

 

[otto]

Does that mean he stands by the 9 to 1 absence?

What it means is that Raffaele has not provided an alibi for Amanda since way back at the time of the arrest.

 

[otto]

That's what I thought: that in this very case we have an example where the cell phone pinging is a bad indicator of the phone's location. Thanks for the reminder.

This is partly why I have trouble believing that AK was gone from the cottage at 8:45 when her phone received the text from PL. There seems to be no reason for her to lie about this.

Is GPS and cell phone tracking reliable in the US?

 

[Malkmus]

What it means is that Raffaele has not provided an alibi for Amanda since way back at the time of the arrest.

From Raf's diary entry dated November 12th:

reconstructing [the events] I realize that it is actually very likely that Amanda was with
me all night long, never going out. And I will certainly not be the one to lie in order to help the investigation and get everyone into trouble for no reason [gratuitamente].

 

[Nova]

What it means is that Raffaele has not provided an alibi for Amanda since way back at the time of the arrest.

But what does that mean, otto?

It's one thing to claim you slept through the night and can't say for sure what your guest did. It's quite another to say, "Amanda left the apartment at 9 and returned at 1."

Did RS testify at the trial? What did he say then (if you recall)?

 

[Nova]

Is GPS and cell phone tracking reliable in the US?

I honestly don't know, otto. Perhaps Allusonz will weigh in. She seems to understand these things better than I.