Meredith Kercher murdered - Amanda Knox convicted, now appeals #7

[otto]

Amanda's first call to her mom was at 12:47 in the afternoon. They spoke for roughly a minute and a half and then Raffaele called his sister to ask her what he should do. A few seconds after their conversation he called 112 to tell them what they found. Apparently the first call to her mom was regarding the open door, blood spots and locked door.

Edda asked Amanda (secretly recorded prison conversation) why she phoned before anything had happened. Apparently whatever Amanda said to her mother in the middle of the night (for mom) was not urgent as nothing had happened ... so mom thought that first phone call was strange as well. Amanda phoned shortly thereafter claiming that there was a foot.

That first phone call has some problems with it ... for mom and police.

 

[otto]

Next time you're in Florence:

It's a restaurant guide. She reviewed the food and establishments.

A Restaurant Guide to Italy, like a travel book. Barbie Nadeau is a travel author who is fluent in Italian.

Who better than to comment on the perils of travel than the travel author?

Dempsey is the food critic for a Seattle paper that is weak in fact-checking.

 

[Malkmus]

(BBM)

10 pm Nov 2 - 5:45 Nov 6, about 92 hours?
54 hours of questioning in total.

92 - 54 = 38 hours.

38 - 8 hours of sleep per night = 38 - 30

That leaves 8 hours (meals, showers, sex, studies, classes, buying underwear, out for pizza, etc.). Was she at the police station all the time except for eating and sleeping?

She was driven straight from the cottage to the police station on November 2nd, so not sure where you get that it started at 10 PM but if you can cite it I'll concede that that is correct.

By my math if she was at the station roughly 12 -14 hours a day (roughly half of each 24-hour day) from November 2 - morning of the 6th, it adds up. And without knowing the exact times I don't see how we can exclude that she was there for that many hours.

 

[Malkmus]

A Restaurant Guide to Italy, like a travel book.

Otto, what are you getting at? Why are you arguing semantics? It doesn't change the content of the books, and frankly, as you know, I don't care what she wrote about just like I don't care that Dempsey also wrote similar stuff. Just you and Steve Moore care. However there is legitimate reason to criticize Nadeau's reporting of this case.

 

[Malkmus]

Edda asked Amanda (secretly recorded prison conversation) why she phoned before anything had happened. Apparently whatever Amanda said to her mother in the middle of the night (for mom) was not urgent as nothing had happened ... so mom thought that first phone call was strange as well. Amanda phoned shortly thereafter claiming that there was a foot.

That first phone call has some problems with it ... for mom and police.

It's almost impossible that "nothing had happened" at the time Amanda called her mom because two minutes after she hung up Raffaele was on the phone with 112 telling them what they had found.

 

[otto]

She was driven straight from the cottage to the police station on November 2nd, so not sure where you get that it started at 10 PM but if you can cite it I'll concede that that is correct.

By my math if she was at the station roughly 12 -14 hours a day (roughly half of each 24-hour day) from November 2 - morning of the 6th, it adds up. And without knowing the exact times I don't see how we can exclude that she was there for that many hours.

Let's move it to 10 AM, as that is when Amanda claims she woke up.

That makes 3 days, 19 hours. That's 24x3+19= 72+19=91 hours.

(91 hours total) - (alleged 54 hours total interrogation) = 38.

Same result.

 

[otto]

Otto, what are you getting at? Why are you arguing semantics? It doesn't change the content of the books, and frankly, as you know, I don't care what she wrote about just like I don't care that Dempsey also wrote similar stuff. Just you and Steve Moore care. However there is legitimate reason to criticize Nadeau's reporting of this case.

I'm not discussing semantics. Barbie Nadeau is a travel author and it appears to be within the realm of travel to write about the experiences of a woman that went sideways during travel, and Candice Dempsey is a food critic. Steve Moore can't distinguish between the two, and that demotes any credibility he had before/after he was fired from his job at the University.

 

[Malkmus]

Let's move it to 10 AM, as that is when Amanda claims she woke up.

That makes 3 days, 19 hours. That's 24x3+19= 72+19=91 hours.

(91 hours total) - (alleged 54 hours total interrogation) = 38.

Same result.

Let me put it this way. (these timings are hypothetical obviously):

November 2nd: 2pm - 3am = 13hrs
November 3rd: 10am - 2am = 16hrs
November 4th: 10am - 3am= 17hrs
November 5th: 10:30am - 6am =7hrs

Which gets me 54 hours. Now I'm totally willing to agree that this total amount of hours probably includes all the waiting around, and meal breaks. So it is highly unlikely that it was all spent being interrogated, yes. Was it still a ****load of time being questioned? Yes. Would it have been exhausting? Sure. But again, we don't know the exact hours and it's certainly possible that the majority of her waking hours were spent at the station.

 

[otto]

It's almost impossible that "nothing had happened" at the time Amanda called her mom because two minutes after she hung up Raffaele was on the phone with 112 telling them what they had found.

The police had unexpectedly arrived at the cottage. Then Filomina and friends arrived. While they were all there trying to figure out what to do, Amanda and Raffaele went into her bedroom and closed the door. That would be when Amanda first phoned mom. Nothing had happened except the Postal Police dropped by on a quiet morning to return a cell phone (awfully polite gesture) and Amanda had told Filomina that something was up at the cottage ... but nothing that would prevent someone from showering and hopping around on the bathmat to the bedroom because there was no towel.

 

[otto]

Let me put it this way. (these timings are hypothetical obviously):

November 2nd: 2pm - 3am = 13hrs
November 3rd: 10am - 2am = 16hrs
November 4th: 10am - 3am= 17hrs
November 5th: 10:30am - 6am =7hrs

Which gets me 54 hours. Now I'm totally willing to agree that this total amount of hours probably includes all the waiting around, and meal breaks. So it is highly unlikely that it was all spent being interrogated, yes. Was it still a ****load of time being questioned? Yes. Would it have been exhausting? Sure. But again, we don't know the exact hours and it's certainly possible that the majority of her waking hours were spent at the station.

If the interrogation was 54 hours, we have to add time if we are to include meals and waiting around. Interrogation is one thing, eating and flipping cartwheels or smooching is not included ... not for Knox.

 

[Malkmus]

I'm not discussing semantics. Barbie Nadeau is a travel author and it appears to be within the realm of travel to write about the experiences of a woman that went sideways during travel, and Candice Dempsey is a food critic. Steve Moore can't distinguish between the two, and that demotes any credibility he had before/after he was fired from his job at the University.

The below description fits Nadeau's book perfectly. I find it silly that this is even being debated. Steve Moore is correct.

The terms food critic, food writer, and restaurant critic can all be used to describe a writer who analyzes food or restaurants and then publishes the results of their findings. While these terms are not strictly synonymous they are often used interchangeably, at least in some circumstances. Those who share their opinions via food columns in newspapers and magazines are known as food columnists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_critic

 

[Malkmus]

The police had unexpectedly arrived at the cottage. Then Filomina and friends arrived. While they were all there trying to figure out what to do, Amanda and Raffaele went into her bedroom and closed the door. That would be when Amanda first phoned mom. Nothing had happened except the Postal Police dropped by on a quiet morning to return a cell phone (awfully polite gesture) and Amanda had told Filomina that something was up at the cottage ... but nothing that would prevent someone from showering and hopping around on the bathmat to the bedroom because there was no towel.

I don't see how this proves your point that "Nothing had happened" when Amanda first called her mom. The phone call to 112 was made before the police or roommates and friends arrived at the cottage.

 

[Malkmus]

If the interrogation was 54 hours, we have to add time if we are to include meals and waiting around. Interrogation is one thing, eating and flipping cartwheels or smooching is not included ... not for Knox.

Agreed, which is what I tried to say.
Anyway, was interesting talking to you tonight... but, I am out for tonight. Goodnight!

 

[otto]

Raffaele called his sister and then called police. Amanda called her mom to say what ??? neither has an answer. Amanda doesn't remember the call, and mom said they talked about so much that it couldn't possibly fit into the call duration. Too bad neither of them can give information about the contents of the phone call.

 

[otto]

Agreed, which is what I tried to say.
Anyway, was interesting talking to you tonight... but, I am out for tonight. Goodnight!

54 hours of interrogation, plus meals, sleep, attending class, having sex, showering, buying lingerie, eating pizza instead of attending the memorial and studying also take a number of hours.

91 - 54 = 37 hours over 4 days. That leaves about 9.5 hours per day for sleep ... and everything else. It doesn't add up for me. They would have spent every hour of every day at the police station between the time of the murder and arrest except for sleep and rushed meals. When was there time for attending class, showering, shopping?

And I do wonder why Amanda and Raffaele, who had planned a trip to Gubbio for the day (discussed with dad), were in no way making preparations for their day. They apparently woke up late, decided to shower at different places, parted ways and Amanda took a couple of bags to do laundry. Then she wandered back to Raffaele's place to get something to eat, apparently unconcerned about things at the cottage (she would have used her cell phone if she were concerned). It was noon before she and Raffaele wandered back to the cottage and things started happening at the cottage ... I suppose they were planning on leaving around 2 for a day trip to a nearby festival?

And what about that call to mom. What was that about? She was at the cottage, was unconcerned, went to Raffaele's after showering to get something to eat, then they both went to the cottage (and don't forget the mop that traveled, or not, for the water spill from the night before). There they were, smooching outside the cottage when the Postal Police arrived. What are we to believe ... suddenly Knox was so frightened that she woke her mother up in the middle of the night to say that nothing had happened?

Then she flipped some cartwheels and then she lied? Then she complained and lied some more? Then she hid the facts (as did her mom) and left a man to rot in jail for two weeks.

 

[Allusonz]

This is a hard one, because this link is not trustworthy. It is not written from an unpredjudiced point of view. Is there a neutral link out there that tells us that Staphani perjuried herself on the stand?

Are there any neutral links out there?

Salem

ETA: Reading your response to Otto, I will go find one of the previous links.

found it

Massei report page 256-257: “With respect to the Luminol-positive traces found in Romanelli’s room, in

Knox’s room and in the corridor, she [Dr Sara Gino] stated that by analysing the SAL cards “we learn, in

contradiction to what was presented in the technical report deposited by the Scientific Police, and also to

what was said in Court, that not only was the Luminol test performed on these traces, but also the generic

diagnosis for the presence of blood, using tetramethylbenzidine, and this test, gave a negative result on

all the items of evidence from which it was possible to obtain a genetic profile” (page 64 hearing Sept.

26, 2009).”

I hope this is neutral enough i have more if you would like it Salem

 

[otto]

Allusonz, the forensic analyst acknowedged using standard and low number count analysis on luminol samples and, when she discovered that samples matched Knox's DNA, she concluded that Knox's DNA was mixed with Meredith's blood (Filomina's bedroom). The luminoled footprint in the hallway was deemed to be haematic (blood) and matching Knox's foot print.

 

[otto]

found it

Massei report page 256-257: “With respect to the Luminol-positive traces found in Romanelli’s room, in

Knox’s room and in the corridor, she [Dr Sara Gino] stated that by analysing the SAL cards “we learn, in

contradiction to what was presented in the technical report deposited by the Scientific Police, and also to

what was said in Court, that not only was the Luminol test performed on these traces, but also the generic

diagnosis for the presence of blood, using tetramethylbenzidine, and this test, gave a negative result on

all the items of evidence from which it was possible to obtain a genetic profile” (page 64 hearing Sept.

26, 2009).”

I hope this is neutral enough i have more if you would like it Salem

She continued to explain that she used low number copy DNA to identify profiles of Knox mixed with Meredith's blood in Filomina's bedroom. If there is a problem with the LNC DNA, we will know that through the appeal.

"With respect to the Luminol-positive traces found in Romanelli's room, in Knox's room and in the corridor, she stated that by analysing the SAL cards "we learn, in contradiction to what was presented in the technical report deposited by the Scientific Police, and also to what was said in Court, that not only was the Luminol test performed on these traces, but also the generic diagnosis for the presence of blood, using tetramethylbenzidine...and this test...gave a negative result on all the items of evidence from which it was possible to obtain a genetic profile" (pages 73 and 74). She thus asked whether it was still possible to interpret these traces as being haematic in nature. Analysing the quantification data, she added, "we see that the quantity of DNA obtained from the major part of these traces is compatible with low copy number DNA; therefore DNA is present in very small quantities; so it is also necessary here to ask oneself whether or not the amplification could be repeated, in order to be able to consider the results obtained as scientifically valid‛ (page 74)."

Motivation Report (pg 257)

 

[claudicici]

I 've missed the movie.
But I've been reading on the site Otto linked to.
I've read the transcripts,the diaries and other things.
After everything I read I have to conclude that I still do not like AK or RS.I don't like them at all.
But I don't think there is enough evidence (there really is no concrete evidence at all) that they were even in the cottage at the time Meredith was murdered.
IMO RG acted alone.

 

[otto]

I 've missed the movie.
But I've been reading on the site Otto linked to.
I've read the transcripts,the diaries and other things.
After everything I read I have to conclude that I still do not like AK or RS.I don't like them at all.
But I don't think there is enough evidence (there really is no concrete evidence at all) that they were even in the cottage at the time Meredith was murdered.
IMO RG acted alone.

What evidence do you see? None? Lawyers and media spent months in a court room and no evidence was presented? What were they doing? Rudy was already convicted .. surely they didn't stand there for months waving their arms claiming that she flipped cartwheels and therefore she was guilty of murder ... for months.

Circumstantial Evidence has a Place:

Amanda acted perfectly normal on the morning that Meredith body was discovered except for walking into a crime scene (open unlocked door, blood on the bath mat, locked bedroom door, no one home, broken window) and acting like everything was normal. That wasn't normal. She eventually called Filomina to the scene, not the police or her mom, and when the postal police unexpectedly arrived along with Filomina, she said that Meredith always locked her bedroom door. When the door was being broken, Police, Filomina and friends were in the hallway while Amanda and Raffaele stood in the kitchen. That always struck me as odd ... that Amanda and Raffaele distanced themselves from Meredith's doorway.