Meredith Kercher murdered - Amanda Knox convicted, now appeals #7

[otto]

Filomina must have immediately suspected Amanda, as did Filomina's friend (they searched their car after giving the pair a ride), for her to take full responsibility for the broken door and insist they break it. Police still refused, but they agreed to stand by while her friend broke the door ... Amanda and Raffaele standing as far away as possible near the front door ... and being ushered out (not in) after the discovery. They saw nothing, yet Amanda knew how Meredith died by the time they arrived at the police station and seemed proud that she was the one to find the body.

 

[otto]

I think in the movie Knox works in a coffee shop serving cake and coffee. Although one backdrop has what appears to be alcohol, it is not stated in the film that Knox worked in a bar in Seattle ... unless Knox said it when she was applying for a bar job. I think she said that she was a server.

 

[sherlockh]

What evidence do you see? None? Lawyers and media spent months in a court room and no evidence was presented? What were they doing? Rudy was already convicted .. surely they didn't stand there for months waving their arms claiming that she flipped cartwheels and therefore she was guilty of murder ... for months.

Snipped. Lol..it is the way you tell them I don't have the energy to continue discussing the evidence points why RG&RS&AK were convicted but I admire that you do. Usually after presenting long lists of evidence there is always someone that again states there is no evidence. It is just silly to continue the discussion. Let the courts decide. JMO.

 

[dgfred]

Thank you very much, fred.

So the basic trajectory of RS' statements more or less matches that of AK's statements:

1. Rock solid alibi.
2. Bends to pressure of interrogation.
3. Accuses someone else.
4. Returns to alibi.

As with AK, the sequence is entirely consistent with someone dealing poorly with the pressure of interrogation.

Perhaps it's also consistent with a guilty suspect lying badly, but it's harder for me to follow the train of thinking if that was the case.

ONLY:
1- they were NOT on the computer. 'Rock Solid' :waitasec: :floorlaugh:
2- told a bunch of 'rubbish' according to HIM.
3- accuses 'AK' basically... because he claims she left.
4- original alibi is NO ALIBI because they were NOT on the computer.

Don't really see how this could be confusing at all, much less to experienced investigators. IMO they saw right through both RS and AK from the beginning.

 

[OldSteve]

The movie addressed the fact that Meredith was moved after she was murdered, which I thought was interesting. This is a fact that is rarely discussed, but the blood pooling was on Meredith's shoulder, indicating she died lying turned slightly to one side. When found, she was prone ... inconsistent with the blood pooling. Because of this, police concluded that someone (Amanda and Raffaele) returned to the scene, staged the break in, cleaned up and locked the bedroom door.

Something I haven't seen mentioned here but was in the Lifetime movie - where Filomena was being questioned and indicated that Amanda said something to her about Meredith's throat being cut .... the prosecutor was very much surprised since, he thought, the only way Amanda would know this would be if she been in Meredith's room before the door was locked. (Anyone recall this?)

Also Amada claiming Meredith kept her door locked, while Filomena says she never locked it.

In the documentary that followed the movie there was mention of Amanda writing a letter while in prison in which she implicated herself... is that true?
They rushed over that point...

Something that confused me - all the other girls were out of the cottage as if they were all away the entire night.... then they all seem to come back just as the crime scene unfolds...

 

[trillian]

She continued to explain that she used low number copy DNA to identify profiles of Knox mixed with Meredith's blood in Filomina's bedroom. If there is a problem with the LNC DNA, we will know that through the appeal.

"With respect to the Luminol-positive traces found in Romanelli's room, in Knox's room and in the corridor, she stated that by analysing the SAL cards "we learn, in contradiction to what was presented in the technical report deposited by the Scientific Police, and also to what was said in Court, that not only was the Luminol test performed on these traces, but also the generic diagnosis for the presence of blood, using tetramethylbenzidine...and this test...gave a negative result on all the items of evidence from which it was possible to obtain a genetic profile" (pages 73 and 74). She thus asked whether it was still possible to interpret these traces as being haematic in nature. Analysing the quantification data, she added, "we see that the quantity of DNA obtained from the major part of these traces is compatible with low copy number DNA; therefore DNA is present in very small quantities; so it is also necessary here to ask oneself whether or not the amplification could be repeated, in order to be able to consider the results obtained as scientifically valid‛ (page 74)."

Motivation Report (pg 257)

I do not see anywhere here where she says anything tested positive for blood or even "haematic in nature". All she says is that the DNA found was in very small quantities. So LCN DNA is found, but not evidence of blood.

Please please, someone tell me where the proof that any barefoot prints (besides the bathmat) were made in blood. I cant find a shred of it anywhere.

I also do not see any positive matches for the footprints to AK or RS. Compatible with? Might be? Could be? That I have heard. But it really could be anyones, even someone from before AK moved in. There is no definitive match.

 

[jjenny]

Something I haven't seen mentioned here but was in the Lifetime movie - where Filomena was being questioned and indicated that Amanda said something to her about Meredith's throat being cut .... the prosecutor was very much surprised since, he thought, the only way Amanda would know this would be if she been in Meredith's room before the door was locked. (Anyone recall this?)

Also Amada claiming Meredith kept her door locked, while Filomena says she never locked it.

In the documentary that followed the movie there was mention of Amanda writing a letter while in prison in which she implicated herself... is that true?
They rushed over that point...

Something that confused me - all the other girls were out of the cottage as if they were all away the entire night.... then they all seem to come back just as the crime scene unfolds...

I believe in real life Amanda Knox did not actually say that Meredith's throat was cut. By the way despite some "artistic license" I am not sure as to why Amanda Knox' family would be so upset over the movie. It does not actually claim Amanda Knox is guilty. Also the actress who played Amanda elicits much more sympathy than Amanda herself, IMO.


"Fact: In that incident, Knox did not mention that Kercher's throat had been cut. Her remark, as told to police by one of Kercher's friends, was, "Of course she suffered. She f...ing bled to death.""
http://abcnews.go.com/US/faction-fiction-amanda-knox-lifetime-movie/story?id=12969134&page=2

 

[UM&AMWfan]

Amanda is GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY!! Come on guys!!

They don't arrest you for MURDER in Italy unless you've done something! Millions of Americans including myself have been to Italy and we don't get arrested for ANYTHING!

I went to Rome and Florence and I don't even recall SEEING a Carabeneri (sp.)!! I mean I saw them on the street in Polizia cars but I don't recall seeing them walking around and they sure as hell never talked to me because I didn't kill anyone!

Amanda and Rafaeli are far too suspicious here and Amanda has given too many conflicting accounts and implicated innocent people!

 

[miley]

A footprint in the hallway is a size 38, or size 6 ... the same as Knox.

That's not right... the print size was somewhere between 36-38,
which means:
female US size - 6, 6.5, 7, 7.5 or 8...
male US size - 3.5, 4, 4.5, 5, 5.5

which means it was "compatible" to just about anyone's print.

source:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,502771,00.html
------------------------------------------------

fyi, size 38 is roughly equal to a US size 6 male - it varies

size 38 male = around 5.5- 6.5
size 38 female = around 7.5, 8 (when i buy shoes this is usually right)

See chart:
http://www.easyunitconverter.com/shoe-size-conversion/shoe-size-converter.aspx

 

[Nova]

One point the movie certainly got right was that Knox called mom before anything happened. Even mom thought there was something wrong with that, and so did police. We know that Knox wasn't all that concerned until police were about to break down the door ... she showered in the cottage even though she found the front door wide open and a bloody foot print on the bath mat. Knox claimed that Meredith routinely locked her bedroom. Why did she call mom before anything happened?

What does "before anything happened" mean?

From another post of yours, I understood that AK called her mother AFTER AK discovered the break-in, but before RS called the police. Is that not correct?

I don't see anything unusual about a 20-year-old being alarmed by an apparent break-in and calling her mother. I know 40-year-olds who would do the same.

 

[Nova]

Amanda's first call to her mom was at 12:47 in the afternoon. They spoke for roughly a minute and a half and then Raffaele called his sister to ask her what he should do. A few seconds after their conversation he called 112 to tell them what they found. Apparently the first call to her mom was regarding the open door, blood spots and locked door.

Thank you, that's what I thought. I see nothing extraordinary about a young woman calling her mother upon discovering her apartment has been burglarized.

 

[Nova]

Filomina must have immediately suspected Amanda, as did Filomina's friend (they searched their car after giving the pair a ride), for her to take full responsibility for the broken door and insist they break it. Police still refused, but they agreed to stand by while her friend broke the door ... Amanda and Raffaele standing as far away as possible near the front door ... and being ushered out (not in) after the discovery. They saw nothing, yet Amanda knew how Meredith died by the time they arrived at the police station and seemed proud that she was the one to find the body.

BBM: ??? How the heck do you get to that conclusion?

There is a break in at a residence. One of the bedroom doors remains locked, so no one knows whether the bedroom is occupied or whether the occupant, if any, has been injured.

The only thing that is surprising is that the police were hesitant to break in. Hardly ILE's finest hour!

 

[Nova]

ONLY:
1- they were NOT on the computer. 'Rock Solid' :waitasec: :floorlaugh:
2- told a bunch of 'rubbish' according to HIM.
3- accuses 'AK' basically... because he claims she left.
4- original alibi is NO ALIBI because they were NOT on the computer.

Don't really see how this could be confusing at all, much less to experienced investigators. IMO they saw right through both RS and AK from the beginning.

I don't have a transcript of the interrogation and, I suspect, neither do you.

We have other evidence that the movie "Amelie" played on RS' computer until sometime after 9 p.m. Later, when asked what they did that night, RS replied, "We were on the computer." That, frankly, is how people think and talk.

It's only when LE cries "Gotcha!" and says computer records show it wasn't in use ALL night that the response starts to look suspicious.

Frankly, if you or I were interviewed about last Sunday evening, we, too, could be made to look like we were hiding something because our answers would be general rather than precise.

A recurring problem with the interrogation of innocent suspects is that innocent people don't know they need to keep a minute-by-minute account of everything they do.

 

[OldSteve]

BBM: ??? How the heck do you get to that conclusion?

There is a break in at a residence. One of the bedroom doors remains locked, so no one knows whether the bedroom is occupied or whether the occupant, if any, has been injured.

The only thing that is surprising is that the police were hesitant to break in. Hardly ILE's finest hour!

And Philomena said MK never locked her door - so knowing the door was locked added to her wanting to get the door opened.

 

[trillian]

Amanda is GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY!! Come on guys!!

They don't arrest you for MURDER in Italy unless you've done something! Millions of Americans including myself have been to Italy and we don't get arrested for ANYTHING!

I went to Rome and Florence and I don't even recall SEEING a Carabeneri (sp.)!! I mean I saw them on the street in Polizia cars but I don't recall seeing them walking around and they sure as hell never talked to me because I didn't kill anyone!

Amanda and Rafaeli are far too suspicious here and Amanda has given too many conflicting accounts and implicated innocent people!

Is this a facetious remark? Do I take it serious? I'm really not sure on this one. So if you go abroad and the police are nice to "you" then they are good all the time??? huh??? You are lucky not to be near a murder and Migninii's zone of influence. Seriously.

BTW, they WILL arrest you in Italy, AND other countries, for crimes you do not commit. Including the good ol' USA. Just do some research. It happens. Sad, but true.

 

[otto]

What does "before anything happened" mean?

From another post of yours, I understood that AK called her mother AFTER AK discovered the break-in, but before RS called the police. Is that not correct?

I don't see anything unusual about a 20-year-old being alarmed by an apparent break-in and calling her mother. I know 40-year-olds who would do the same.

She wasn't alarmed and didn't phone her mom ... she had a shower, and then went to Raffaele's apt for something to eat.

 

[otto]

Amanda is GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY!! Come on guys!!

They don't arrest you for MURDER in Italy unless you've done something! Millions of Americans including myself have been to Italy and we don't get arrested for ANYTHING!

I went to Rome and Florence and I don't even recall SEEING a Carabeneri (sp.)!! I mean I saw them on the street in Polizia cars but I don't recall seeing them walking around and they sure as hell never talked to me because I didn't kill anyone!

Amanda and Rafaeli are far too suspicious here and Amanda has given too many conflicting accounts and implicated innocent people!

Exactly ... people that travel in Italy are not randomly arrested, charged, prosecuted, and tossed in jail for 26 years for no reason.

 

[otto]

BBM: ??? How the heck do you get to that conclusion?

There is a break in at a residence. One of the bedroom doors remains locked, so no one knows whether the bedroom is occupied or whether the occupant, if any, has been injured.

The only thing that is surprising is that the police were hesitant to break in. Hardly ILE's finest hour!

What reason did postal police have to enter a private home and break down a door?

 

[flourish]

Is this a facetious remark? Do I take it serious? I'm really not sure on this one. So if you go abroad and the police are nice to "you" then they are good all the time??? huh??? You are lucky not to be near a murder and Migninii's zone of influence. Seriously.

BTW, they WILL arrest you in Italy, AND other countries, for crimes you do not commit. Including the good ol' USA. Just do some research. It happens. Sad, but true.

Um, o k a y.
Check out the new poll thread...you only need to read post #1 to find the answer to your question.

 

[Nova]

She wasn't alarmed and didn't phone her mom ... she had a shower, and then went to Raffaele's apt for something to eat.

You are right: she didn't panic. But that's not to say AK wasn't concerned and didn't call her mother in an attempt to feel better. Lots of kids do that.

AK was essentially alone in a foreign country, dealing mostly in a language she only partially understood.

It isn't that big a mystery why, upon discovering a break-in but nothing obvious missing, she called her mother and then went to see an Italian friend, eventually allowing him to call the police.

Of course, now we know her first call should have been to a criminal defense lawyer, but hindsight is always 20/20.

I don't think anyone is arguing that AK was always instantly mature and responsible. She made mistakes. She could be flaky, or at least appear so when one sets asides issues such as the language barrier. But immaturity is a long way from murder.