GUILTY MN - George Floyd, 46, died in custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 #19 - Chauvin Jury Deliberations #2

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MTW2011 said:
Going back to the jury instructions (sorry, hope thats OK)
The part of "assault" is complex IMO, especially when you get to "intentional act" but that the State doesn't (or didn't) have to prove intent. "Assault" seems like it could apply to any sort of use of force / tough restraint, in this cqs, against someone being taken into custody who may not want to be taken into custody. NOT trying to argue the verdict at all, I just think it's interesting to now see the verdict and flip back to what the jury believed was proven by the State.

From the instructions :
"
The elements of the crime of Murder in the Second Degree while committing a felony ‘
are:
First Element: The death of George Floyd must be proven. Second Element: The Defendant caused the death of George Floyd.
Third Element: The Defendant, at the time. of causing the death of George Floyd, was committing or attempting to commit the felony offense of Assault in the Third Degree. It is not necessary for the State to prove the Defendant had an intent to kill George Floyd, but it must prove that the Defendant committed or attempted to commit the underlying felony of Assault in the Third Degree.
There are two elements of Assault in the Third Degree:
(l)
(2)
Defendant assaulted George Floyd.
“Assault” is the intentional infliction of bodily harm upon another or the attempt to inflict bodily harm upon another. The intentional infliction of bodily harm requires proof that the Defendant intentionally applied unlawful
force to another person without that person’s consent and that this act resulted in bodily harm. Defendant inflicted substantial bodily harm on George Floyd. It is not necessary for the State to prove that the Defendant intended to inflict substantial bodily harm, or knew that his actions would inflict substantial bodily harm, only that the Defendanf intended to commit the assault and that George Floyd sustained substantial bodily harm as a result of the assault.

--
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Thanks so much for this. This case could be on the line. Did he know he was applying unlawful force to Mr. Floyd? If not, the facts don’t match. If so, then it matches.

But if it’s open for interpretation, I’m super glad to see the decision go in favor of the VICTIM for once. We’ve seen decisions go in favor of the defendant too often. You know what I mean?
 
Unpopular opinion I’m sure- but he’s been made a scapegoat- for years of police brutality being below the radar and whilst I think people should be punished for their crime- sadly in this case one person is being punished whilst many, many more ( who are also more highly paid) are wiping their brows and thanking god this is over. Sorry the government should be doing a much more in depth inquiry into why he thought this approach was ok, and even if he is found to be a volatile cop, who was responsible who was supervising him. Yaaayyyyyy we caught the guy at the very bottom of a very perverse pyramid. Hmmmmmmm- all my own opinion ( I understand it’s won’t be a popular one in most of the US, so don’t like and just scroll by, I just needed to air my views and everyone else here is asleep)
 
So relieved. I predicted today and hoped for 2nd. I'm not always right but I'm so glad the jury agreed with me :) My kids watched the trial with me. They also agree with the jury.

His name was George Perry Floyd Jr. We will always remember him and his family <3
 
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Tom_Servo said:
Me too. I think they got it wrong but for the right reasons. I find it hard to believe they were not influenced by the intense climate. I think the state also won the jury instruction portion which allowed way more latitude than the raw reading of the law. After I saw the instructions it was over in my mind even though I thought it should have been manslaughter. It's the best decision for the country though.

I also hope it causes power tripping cops to cool their heals because I've encountered way too many in my life. Better recruiting, better screening, better education requirements and more in depth psychological analysis will help choose better cops. Unfortunately the job isn't attractive right now so it might be hard.
Click to expand...

I agree that the instructions gave the state so much latitude and I agree with you, I think he was guilty of manslaughter. I said it in a previous post, but the whole "assault" piece including an "intentional" use of unlawful force but that the State didn't need to prove intent, I dont know, it just gets into very murky water very quickly IMHO.

The entire concept of "this was the right decision for the country" (and I am not quoting that because it was what you said, many have said similar sentiments now) is very interesting to me, because on the other side of that is still the "right" decision under the law, if the State proved their case beyond a reasonable doubt, etc....
The decision is right for the country, I do agree with that, but I also still see the "other side" of that, a verdict being decided under this pressure, intentional or not, of this very volatile environment and every single little (and big) thing being seen, scrutinized, analyzed, and all viewed in real-time on the world's stage.
 
MTW2011 said:
I agree that the instructions gave the state so much latitude and I agree with you, I think he was guilty of manslaughter. I said it in a previous post, but the whole "assault" piece including an "intentional" use of unlawful force but that the State didn't need to prove intent, I dont know, it just gets into very murky water very quickly IMHO.

The entire concept of "this was the right decision for the country" (and I am not quoting that because it was what you said, many have said similar sentiments now) is very interesting to me, because on the other side of that is still the "right" decision under the law, if the State proved their case beyond a reasonable doubt, etc....
The decision is right for the country, I do agree with that, but I also still see the "other side" of that, a verdict being decided under this pressure, intentional or not, of this very volatile environment and every single little (and big) thing being seen, scrutinized, analyzed, and all viewed in real-time on the world's stage.
Click to expand...
When you have a murder on video no red herrings the defense throws out stop the truth.Derek Chauvin is a killer!
 
I have chills!! Jury did right! It was an egregious act and very deserving of a felony murder conviction! Hopefully this brings some legal closure to the family and the city of Minneapolis! But obviously we have along way to go in addressing police brutality in this country! A long way indeed!
 
Ruthbullock said:
Unpopular opinion I’m sure- but he’s been made a scapegoat- for years of police brutality being below the radar and whilst I think people should be punished for their crime- sadly in this case one person is being punished whilst many, many more ( who are also more highly paid) are wiping their brows and thanking god this is over. Sorry the government should be doing a much more in depth inquiry into why he thought this approach was ok, and even if he is found to be a volatile cop, who was responsible who was supervising him. Yaaayyyyyy we caught the guy at the very bottom of a very perverse pyramid. Hmmmmmmm- all my own opinion ( I understand it’s won’t be a popular one in most of the US, so don’t like and just scroll by, I just needed to air my views and everyone else here is asleep)
Click to expand...

Agree 100%! I feel the same way. It is a systemic problem in some departments... culture breeds behavior/response...

But lets not forget all the LE officers that put their lives on the line every day and some die doing that. This does not end with DC... it goes way higher.
 
SBops said:
Social media is full of hate.
Click to expand...

Ain’t nothin’ new. The comments on YouTube last night...

My response, last Facebook post from Montrell Jackson, police officer killed in Louisiana riots - I’ve always remembered his quote ever since:

“Don’t let hate infect your heart.”

—

After some time “deliberating” which Bob Marley song is most opportune, I decided on this one:

“Won't you help to sing
These songs of freedom?
'Cause all I ever have
Redemption songs
Redemption songs

Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery
None but ourselves can free our minds...”




(Puff puff pass @tlcya! oh wait nevermind, it’s a pandemic, no sharing)
 
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Ruthbullock said:
Unpopular opinion I’m sure- but he’s been made a scapegoat- for years of police brutality being below the radar and whilst I think people should be punished for their crime- sadly in this case one person is being punished whilst many, many more ( who are also more highly paid) are wiping their brows and thanking god this is over. Sorry the government should be doing a much more in depth inquiry into why he thought this approach was ok, and even if he is found to be a volatile cop, who was responsible who was supervising him. Yaaayyyyyy we caught the guy at the very bottom of a very perverse pyramid. Hmmmmmmm- all my own opinion ( I understand it’s won’t be a popular one in most of the US, so don’t like and just scroll by, I just needed to air my views and everyone else here is asleep)
Click to expand...
I'm not asleep yet and must say you echo my feelings. He has been made an example of. I fear many of the lower ranks will either take sick leave or early retirement and I can;t say I blame them. Not to be argumentative with anyone and I can see all points of view .Night all!
 
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Ruthbullock said:
Unpopular opinion I’m sure- but he’s been made a scapegoat- for years of police brutality being below the radar and whilst I think people should be punished for their crime- sadly in this case one person is being punished whilst many, many more ( who are also more highly paid) are wiping their brows and thanking god this is over. Sorry the government should be doing a much more in depth inquiry into why he thought this approach was ok, and even if he is found to be a volatile cop, who was responsible who was supervising him. Yaaayyyyyy we caught the guy at the very bottom of a very perverse pyramid. Hmmmmmmm- all my own opinion ( I understand it’s won’t be a popular one in most of the US, so don’t like and just scroll by, I just needed to air my views and everyone else here is asleep)
Click to expand...

Like sacrificing one for the greater good.

Although I don't completely agree with the verdict.... I am somewhat okay with that, and probably won't even lose any sleep over it if I'm being honest. I just hope that things change, soon. JMO
 
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