MN - George Floyd, 46, died in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 #11 - Chauvin Trial Day 8

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Tippy Lynn

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This thread is to discuss the case of George Floyd. It is not a thread to discuss racism in general.

Unless your post relates to this case specifically, it is off topic and will be removed.
 
ADMIN NOTE:

Please stay on topic by discussing the trial without introducing the peripheral matters of riots and protests, BLM, all the extraneous chatter about racial inequities and other social justice issues.

We acknowledge, we understand how critical this trial is in relation to those issues, but we need to stay focused on this case and the trial itself. Yes there is overlap with those important issues, but the thread is specifically dedicated to discussing the George Floyd case and the Derek Chauvin trial and not all those other matters.

If members wish to generally speculate on how such issues may have influenced either the victim or the accused, that's fine, but please don't bring in specifics related to all those other matters and derail the thread with social justice issues that will not be resolved in this discussion.

Thanks !!
 
ADMIN NOTE:

To say simply that GF possibly had fear as a black man was left as reasonable speculation that doesn't warrant dissecting it any further. IF GF had that fear, surely we can all understand where it may have originated.

Quite a few posts had to be removed due to general back and forth bickering. There is no way to edit that many posts and be able to retain context so a lot of responses got removed in the process.
 
ADMIN NOTE:

Members have been previously advised not to trash the witnesses. They are not there for our enjoyment or entertainment and there is no need to publicly disparage them or belittle them.

Keep it classy folks !!

Thank you.
 
The trial of former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin will resume Wednesday with expert testimony continuing from Los Angeles Police Sgt. Jody Stiger.

You can watch the trial here. It resumes Wednesday at 10:15 a.m. EDT.

Stiger began his testimony as a prosecution use-of-force expert Tuesday. Stiger said officers were justified in using force while Floyd was resisting their efforts to put him in a squad car. But once he was on the ground and stopped resisting, “at that point, the officers … should have slowed down or stopped their force as well.”

Stiger said that after reviewing video of the arrest, “my opinion was that the force was excessive.”

Chauvin’s lawyer, Eric Nelson, has argued that Chauvin “did exactly what he had been trained to do over his 19-year career” and that it was Floyd’s use of illegal drugs and his underlying health conditions — not the officer’s knee — that killed him.

WATCH LIVE George Floyd Case Day 8: Derek Chauvin Trial Live Stream | WTRF
 
Wednesday, April 7th:
*Trial continues (Day 8) (@ 9am CT - trial @ 9:15am CT) - MN – George Perry Floyd, Jr. (46) (May 25, 2020, Minneapolis, arrested for forgery & killed in police custody) - *Derek Michael Chauvin (44/now 45) police officer who held his knee on Floyd’s neck for 8 minutes & 46 seconds (Note: on 10/14/20 this has been changed to 9 minutes & 29 seconds) (& non responsive for 2 minutes & 53 seconds before officer took his knee off his neck; from 8:19pm to 8:28pm his knee was on Floyd’s neck; has been fired (5/26/20) & arrested & charged (5/29/20) with 3rd degree murder & 2nd degree manslaughter. Charges changed (6/3/20) to 2nd degree murder-unintentional-while committing a felony, 3rd degree murder-perpetrating eminently dangerous act (3rd degree charge was dismissed on 10/22/20 & reinstated on 3/11/21) & evincing depraved mind & 2nd degree manslaughter-culpable negligence creating unreasonable risk. $500K bond, reset (6/8/20) @ $1.25M & $1M with conditions. Posted non-cash $1M bond (10/7/20) & has been released from jail.
Trial began on 3/8/21 with jury selection. Jury selection ran through March 23, 2021. Trial with opening statements & the commencement of the State’s case began on March 29, 2021. Experts anticipate the trial could last 2-4 weeks. Jurors: 12 & 2 alternates (9 women & 5 men). Jurors will be sequestered during deliberations. None of the other officers will be testifying at Chauvin’s trial.
Jurors’ info reference post #6 here:
MN - George Floyd, 46, died in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 #4 - Chauvin Trial Day 1
These are the incidents that State wanted to bring into trial. Reference post #279 here:
George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 1
Judge ruled that 2 out of 8 prior incidents with Chauvin would be coming in as "he knew better" for #3 & modus operandi evidence for #5; See post #385 here:
MN - George Floyd, 46, died in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 #8 - Chauvin Trial Day 5
Bond conditions & court info 12/19/20 thru 3/23/21 & jury selection (3/9 thru 3/23) & Day 1 to 6 of Trial (3/29 to 4/5/21) reference post #12 here:
MN - George Floyd, 46, died in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 #10 - Chauvin Trial Day 7
4/6/21: Tuesday, Trial Day 7: Each morning of the trial the judge has set aside 9am CT/10am ET for any motions/issues with attorneys. Motion hearing: an 8:30am hearing about Morries Hall's invocation of his 5th amendment rights. Morries Hall appeared in court for motion to quash his subpoena to testify. He said he will plead the 5th if called to testify. He has been provided no immunity his lawyer Adrienne Cousins says. Attorney Cousins says Floyd ingested a controlled substance as he was being taken into custody and Hall could be at risk for being charged for 3rd degree murder. Eric Nelson listed questions he intends to ask Morries Hall. Q's include Hall's interactions with Floyd, whether he provided controlled substances, why he left MN after the incident. Judge Cahill: "It seems like just about everything that you want to ask him... he would have a legitimate right to invoke his 5th Amendment rights against compelled self-incrimination & that being how Floyd appeared when he was back in the car & falling asleep suddenly." No decision on Hall's testimony for today. Judge ordered attorneys to write down their potential questions & will decide what’s permissible.
State’s witnesses: Schleicher on direct: 23) MPD Sgt. Ker Yang, works as Crisis Intervention Coordinator @ the training center. Nelson on cross. 24) MPD Lt. Johnny Mercil in charge of training. Nelson on cross. And re-direct. 25) MPD officer Nicole Mackenzie, provides medical training to officers. Nelson on cross. And re-direct. 26) Sgt. Jody Stiger (LAPD) use of force expert. Judge Cahill indicated there may be a legal issue that needs to be addressed with the testimony of the state's use of force expert. Cahill sent the jury home. Trial will reconvene at 9:15am on 4/7/21.
*Charged (7/22/20) with 6 counts of aiding & abetting taxes-false or fraudulent returns-filed with commissioner & 3 counts aiding & abetting taxes-failure to file return, report, document. – Omnibus hearing on 6/30/21.
 
Latest news media - ​

AP News - Police official: Chauvin trained to avoid neck pressure

USA Today - Derek Chauvin trial day 7: EMT, more police testify about training

CNN - George Floyd: Police use-of-force instructor says Derek Chauvin's kneeling is not a trained restraint - CNN

ABC News - Many of Derek Chauvin's law enforcement colleagues disagree with how he restrained George Floyd. Here's how they have testified.

Independent - Officers used ‘excessive’ force against George Floyd, LAPD expert testifies - follow live

Star Tribune - Floyd's passenger emerges as complicated figure in Chauvin trial

ABC News - Man in car with George Floyd the day he died doesn't want to testify in Derek Chauvin trial

Washington Post - https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/06/derek-chauvin-trial/


Today is Day 8 of trial CIC
So far, witnesses have been​

Day 1
Opening Statements
1) 911 MPD Dispatcher Jena Scurry (not to be confused with 911 call taker or fire dispatcher)
2) Speedway gas station cashier All*sha Oy*er
3) MMA guy D*nald W*lliams (prosecution only today)

Day 2
3) witness - From Yesterday, defense follow up etc with MMA guy D*nald W*lliams - he called 911
4) witness - Darn**la - was minor at the time and now 18 - she did the "viral video" that the world has seen and had little cousin with her in green shirt
5) witness - Little cousin in green (not posting any info here at WS... due to minor)
6) witness - Aly*** who was wearing white shirt and blue jeans in group shot.. knows witness #4 from school and knows another person there she drove there with ( young female K**lyn at scene with large bag on shoulder who is #7 witness) She drove up after FG was on ground -took 3 videos.
7) witness - K**lyn (?sp) Arrived with #6 witness. Minor, 17 year old. Friend of #6 Aly***. She circled her photo of standing on the curb.. had large beige bag on shoulder next to MMA guy.
8) witness - 27 yo Lady firefighter/EMT GH who was in all black with white headband that day, with CPR training (wearing uniform in court) from Minneapolis who was on a walk who took video and did 911 call. She was 7th person to arrive on the curb with others watching . The judge chewed her out at the end of today for "arguing with the court" and arguing with attorneys.

Day 3
8) Genev*eve Hans*n cont'd - Firefighter/EMT (defense questions)
9) Christopher Mart*n 19 y/o who worked in CUP FOOD store and accepted the $20 bill.
10) Christopher B*lrey 45 y/o who pulled up behind GF's car, filmed a little then left the scene
11) Charles Mcmi*lian 61 y/o who was first on scene when at CUP food wearing black shirt with white square emblem - "You can't win"
12) Lt. James Rugel with IT responsibility for body and street cams.

Day 4
13) Courtn*y R*ss GF girlfriend since 2017
14) Seth Zach*ry Bravinder - Ambulance/EMS driver
15) Eerek Smith - Ambulance/EMS who did pulse and compressions
16) Jeremy Norton - Captain/EMT at firestation #17 who responded to scene/2nd scene
17) David Pleoger - MPD Sgt. who took call from dispatcher complaint, went to scene, went hospital.

Day 5 - Friday
18) Sgt Jon Edwards - MPD who took over shift from Pleoger
19) Richard Zimmerman - MPD Investigator for critical incidents;prior to turning over to BCA upon death of GF

Day 6
20) Dr Bradford Langerfeld - Resident at hospital that pronounced GF
21) Chief Arrandondo - Head of MPD
22) Katie Blackwelll - was MPD Commander of Training Division at time of GF death

Day 7
23) Ker Yang - Sgt MPD Crisis Intervention Training Coordinator
24) Johny Mercil - Lt. MPD Oversees MPD Use of Force education who trained Chauvin
25) Nicole MacKenzie - MPD Medical Support Coordinator
26) Jody Stiger - Los Angeles Use of force expert
 
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Tom_Servo said:
All terminology contrary to someone with "a depraved mind".

I think Chauvin is guilty as can be but why in the world does Minnesota have that ridiculous "depraved mind" condition in their murder law? It just seems completely unnecessary and muddies up guidelines. The verbal jury instruction is going to be critical in how that clause is explained. If you just take "depraved" and "evincing" at their Webster's Dictionary definitions it doesn't equal murder. It equals manslaughter. IMHO
Click to expand...

@Tom_Servo Yes, the prosecution is trying to get the jury instructions clearer for this case specifically re "Depraved Mind" elements, and last week did a submission you can read here

https://www.mncourts.gov/mncourtsgo...20-12646/ProposedJuryInstructions04012021.pdf

Egads, cut/paste is awful, I'll do screen shot. More in the link just a 4 page pdf.

NOTE: What is in RED below is what they want stricken and replaced with what is in GREEN for better jury understanding of what "Depraved Mind" elements are for wording in the jury charging instructions at the end of the trial prior to deliberations.

MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE—DEPRAVED MIND—ELEMENTS

The elements of murder in the third degree, as alleged here, are:

First, the death of George Floyd must be proven.

Second, the defendant, acting alone or aided by others, caused the death of George Floyd. “To cause” means to be a substantial causal factor in causing the death. The defendant is criminally liable for all the consequences of his actions that occur in the ordinary and natural course of events, including those consequences brought about by one or more intervening causes that were the natural result of the defendant's acts. The fact that other causes contribute to the death does not relieve the defendant of criminal liability. However, the defendant is not criminally liable if a “superseding cause” caused the death. A “superseding cause” is a cause that comes after the defendant’s acts, alters the natural sequence of events, and produces a result that would not otherwise have occurred. An action that occurs before the defendant’s conduct and is not the sole cause of the death does not constitute a superseding cause.

Third, the defendant's intentional act that caused the death of George Floyd was eminently dangerous to other persons and was performed without regard for human life. Such an act may not have been specifically intended to cause death, and may not have been specifically directed at the particular person whose death occurred. But in order to find this element has been satisfied, [it must have been committed in a reckless or wanton manner with the knowledge that someone may be killed and with a heedless disregard of that happening] the defendant’s act must have been committed with an indifference to the loss of human life that the eminently dangerous act could cause.

Fourth, the defendant’s act took place on May 25, 2020 in Hennepin County.


The defendant is charged with committing this crime or intentionally aiding the commission of this crime. If you find that each of these elements has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, the defendant is guilty of this charge. If you find that any element has not been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, the defendant is not guilty of this charge, unless you find the State has proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant is liable for this crime committed by another person according to the aiding-and-abetting instruction below

JuryInstructionChanges.JPG
 
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JerseyGirl said:
Stiger said that after reviewing video of the arrest, “my opinion was that the force was excessive.”

Chauvin’s lawyer, Eric Nelson, has argued that Chauvin “did exactly what he had been trained to do over his 19-year career” and that it was Floyd’s use of illegal drugs and his underlying health conditions — not the officer’s knee — that killed him.

WATCH LIVE George Floyd Case Day 8: Derek Chauvin Trial Live Stream | WTRF
Click to expand...

This morning I was awakened by my cat who had walked up to my face and had his two front paws on my neck. It felt like a ton of brick and hurt so that in a flash of panic, I immediately pulled away to get him off . Then I thought of George and the weight that was put on his neck.

Please, World, don't let the actions of Chauvin ever be considered an acceptable practice.
 
Side note:

Viewer interest in television coverage of the trial of Derek Chauvin has been high, according to ratings data from Nielsen.

Several cable channels, including CNN and MSNBC, have broadcast large portions of the trial live, and one cable network, HLN, has shown it in its entirety since the proceedings started on March 29. For several days last week, CNN’s highest ratings came in the afternoon, during witness testimony, rather than during its prime-time hours.

Derek Chauvin Trial Latest Updates: Prosecutors Put Focus on Use of Force
 
Just wanted to weigh in on the discussion of whether Derek Chauvin's knee was on the neck of George Floyd or across his upper back/shoulder blade. I do think based on what I've seen that his knee was on GF's neck BUT - and this is JMO - I don't think the exact positioning, whether neck or upper back, matters much when it comes to the question of whether the weight of DC was fatally impeding the breathing of GF, leading to a hypoxic state and cardiac arrest.

Again, JMO but I think that even if - in the best case scenario for the defense - the weight of DC went across the shoulder blade area, I don't believe that a person in the prone position with their hands handcuffed behind the back, pinned onto a hard surface (concrete) by another person's body weight, can achieve adequate respiration for as long as GF was prone.

We learned from the testimony of Zimmerman that the protocol existed that people restrained with hands in the back should not be left in the prone position but immediately moved to sitting or side (recovery) position. That protocol didn't exist for no good reason - it existed because it was medically informed that most people will have trouble breathing even just lying still in that position for an extended period of time. If you add 170 (?) pounds of pressure from a police officer across the back of the thorax (even if it's not the neck), I don't see how a restrained person can get adequate oxygen.

JMO but I think the lack of damage to anatomical structures of the neck (if we eventually hear that is true) is immaterial. In other words, it's my opinion that closing off the windpipe through pressure is not the only way to restrict someone's breathing enough to kill them. Weight on the upper part of the back also prevents the lungs from expanding enough to get adequate oxygen to the heart and the rest of the body tissues.

All MOO
 
Cathy Russon
@cathyrusson
·
1h
#DerekChauvinTrial - The trial resumes this morning with prosecution use of force expert, Jody Stiger, returning to the stand. Court was halted abruptly during his direct examination yesterday and recessed an hour early, no word why that happened.

Sgt. Jody Stiger, state's use of force expert back on the stand.
Jody.png


link: https://twitter.com/cathyrusson



Paul Blume
@PaulBlume_FOX9
·
4m
BACK IN SESSION: Without any formal explanation of yesterday's abrupt end, #DerekChauvinTrial is back in session. LAPD Sgt Jody Stiger resumes his testimony. If looking for a quick listen, I joined NPR's Up First podcast early this AM to discuss the case.

link: https://twitter.com/PaulBlume_FOX9
 
I will try and behave today. Eating breakfast and drinking my coffee. What witnesses do we have for today?
 
I always view trials as if I were a member of the jury. In regards to where the knee was placed would not matter to me at all if I were a juror. I would be irritated that the defense is even trying to argue that his knee allegedly being on GF's shoulder vs neck mattered at all. The defendant provided zero assistance to GF and continued to keep his body weight on him after he knew he didn't have a pulse. He clearly went against his training and chose to not value the human life he was in charge of. If I were a juror, nothing the defense could offer would sway my opinion after having to sit through multiple videos of different angles of GF dying and feeling so helpless and angry that this man on trial could have not only prevented it but may quite possibly have done it on purpose. JMHO
 
Why do some witnesses address the jury and other ignore them? Which one is correct or does it matter?
 
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