MN - George Floyd, 46, unarmed, killed in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 *arrests* #2

[tresir2012]

If a doctor or nurse assisting in a surgery thinks a surgeon is drunk and they don’t stop the surgery and the patient dies as a result of the surgeon’s malpractice and criminal actions would they not be held partly responsible and disciplined accordingly? Would they get a pass because they were just following orders?

I think they might, with good lawyers. Is there evidence Chauvin was drunk? In your analogy, the surgeon was at fault, others were assisting. They would not be at fault IMO.
Nothing went wrong till Chauvin turned up and took charge. They were rookies he was their Supervisor.

 

[SouthAussie]

With the apparent fracas in the vehicle, I have been wondering ..... are the police required to put a seatbelt on a handcuffed passenger that they are transporting in their vehicle?

ETA: Just answering my own question.


Minneapolis police are testing a new seat belt system for squad cars that would no longer require officers to have to reach across suspects to buckle them in.
As officers secure passengers into the backseat by stretching seat belts across them, they can expose themselves to injury by unruly suspects, authorities say.
"Safetywise, that is a real concern," said Minneapolis police spokesman John Elder.
Minneapolis police test new squad seat belts

 

[Falcon500]

Wouldn't surprise me if their cams were on and recording, but pointed at the ground or sky. Kinda on purpose, maybe? Imo

Explain how that could happen. Could they have pointed their badges towards the sky?

 

[SleuthBee]

I think the defence are likely to claim those 3 autopsy findings contributed to his death from being knelt on by three officers, so it would be useful to be prepared for that to possibly be put forward by the defence. They certainly won't ignore those details IMO.
The blunt force trauma to his face is possibly due to him being roughly pulled out of the car and hitting his face on the floor. With his hands cuffed behind him that is what would happen as he could not save himself. Although we don't clearly see what went on in the back of the car before he was pulled through by Chauvin, so it could have happened then too.

If and when the defense pulls that, they will have to overcome the following:

1. GF was living, breathing, walking and talking until ........... ???
   
2. If a man the same age, ht and wt, with perfect health, and a neg toxicology screen had his right carotid artery and jugular vein compressed for 8 min and 46 sec, what is the expected outcome?

Dr. Michael Baden is prepared to answer that question as in this video. Aside from Dr. Cyril Wecht, he is the highest regarded pathologist in the country.

The toxicology results may or may not have contributed to his anxiety which was wrongfully perceived as resistance by the officers. GF was terrified and rightfully so.

 

[tresir2012]

If and when the defense pulls that, they will have to overcome the following:

1. GF was living, breathing, walking and talking until ........... ???
   
2. If a man the same age, ht and wt, with perfect health, and a neg toxicology screen had his right carotid artery and jugular vein compressed for 8 min and 46 sec, what is the expected outcome?

Dr. Michael Baden is prepared to answer that question as in this video. Aside from Dr. Cyril Wecht, he is the highest regarded pathologist in the country.

The toxicology results may or may not have contributed to his anxiety which was wrongfully perceived as resistance by the officers. GF was terrified and rightfully so.

What about the falling against the police car and the sliding down the wall plus the look of anguish on his face. The store clerk also said he acted drunk so what was wrong? I think they will try it as a contributory cause though. Others have said he wasn't well too and an ambulance should have been called. Do you think he was ok then?

 

[SleuthBee]

Chauvin didn't put the cuffs on but did yank him out of the car.

I know, but injury isn't only caused by putting them on too tight. Pulling and applying force to them in a manner to control a person can result in injury.

 

[Boxer]

What about the falling against the police car and the sliding down the wall plus the look of anguish on his face. The store clerk also said he acted drunk so what was wrong? I think they will try it as a contributory cause though. Others have said he wasn't well too and an ambulance should have been called. Do you think he was ok then?

He would die from a knee to the neck whether healthy or impaired.
His autopsy tox report has intoxication levels.
Do a lot white men get neck kneed to death for being under the influence?

 

[SleuthBee]

What about the falling against the police car and the sliding down the wall plus the look of anguish on his face. The store clerk also said he acted drunk so what was wrong? I think they will try it as a contributory cause though. Others have said he wasn't well too and an ambulance should have been called. Do you think he was ok then?

There was no alcohol in GF's system. And the store clerk also said that GF was sitting on top of his blue van.

If he wasn't well then an ambulance should have been called. But instead, he was pulled out of the police car and onto the street then killed by a sadistic cop. And its so sad to think that his arrest might not have been legal.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Yes we do. Taken from page 1 of GF's autopsy:

I. Blunt force injuries
A. Cutaneous blunt force injuries of the forehead, face, and upper lip
B. Mucosal injuries of the lips
C. Cutaneous blunt force injuries of the shoulders, hands, elbows, and legs
D. Patterned contusions (in some areas abraded) of the wrists, consistent with restraints (handcuffs)

A, B, and C sure appear to be injuries to me. Also, in this video, beginning at frame 3:28 (Chauvin's arrival). Look closely at what is going on in the back of that police cruiser. While I am no physician, I am trained and educated enough to comprehend an autopsy. So, I will throw letter D back in because handcuffs are not suppose to be tight enough to damage blood vessels. Contusions are bruises which occurs from blood leaking from the vessels.

Does this not show intent on Chauvin's part?

ETA: Oops, forgot to link the video

I stand corrected. Good catch.

 

[SleuthBee]

He would die from a knee to the neck whether healthy or impaired.
His autopsy tox report has intoxication levels.
Do a lot white men get neck kneed to death for being under the influence?

Exactly!

And if the police suspected that GF had alcohol or intoxicants on board, then performing a neck hold or restricting his breathing was absolutely contraindicated and fatally detrimental to his health.

 

[tresir2012]

There was no alcohol in GF's system. And the store clerk also said that GF was sitting on top of his blue van.

If he wasn't well then an ambulance should have been called. But instead, he was pulled out of the police car and onto the street then killed by a sadistic cop. And its so sad to think that his arrest might not have been legal.

I know there was no alcohol. I am stating how he was described by the store clerk and how he appeared in the videos before Chauvin arrived. Chauvin is not the only guy that has been charged. But never mind. I will leave it to the lawyers. Most people have made up their minds all 4 cops are guilty already. There's not much point even having any discussion on this thread anymore IMO.

 

[tresir2012]

He would die from a knee to the neck whether healthy or impaired.
His autopsy tox report has intoxication levels.
Do a lot white men get neck kneed to death for being under the influence?

Probably.

 

[Boxer]

He would die from a knee to the neck whether healthy or impaired.
His autopsy tox report has intoxication levels.
Do a lot white men get neck kneed to death for being under the influence?

Passing the counterfeit 20 was a misdemeanor.

Probably.

MOO it is likely the same kind of odds as getting shot.

 

[SouthAussie]

I know there was no alcohol. I am stating how he was described by the store clerk and how he appeared in the videos before Chauvin arrived. Chauvin is not the only guy that has been charged. But never mind. I will leave it to the lawyers. Most people have made up their minds all 4 cops are guilty already. There's not much point even having any discussion on this thread anymore IMO.

Like you, I am interested in exactly what transpired during this incident, and how that is going to play out in court.

I have been looking around to try to find if Lane/Kueng called for backup - hence the arrival of the 'training officer' and his partner. And the arrival of the park police officer.

 

[Cubby]

Houston’s top prosecutor has concluded that a scandal-ridden former Houston police officer likely lied when he arrested George Floyd on a minor drug offense for which Mr. Floyd served time in state jail.
Ogg said Floyd’s case was among the cases that prosecutors were working to clear.

“We even sent Mr. Floyd a notice, but because all we had was his last known address, I don’t believe he ever received it,” Ogg said. “He would’ve been entitled to relief.”

Ogg: Case involving George Floyd was among Goines cases being reviewed by prosecutors

I think they will if they find out that is why she immediately filed for divorce.

That filing for a divorce the very next day has always sounded a little convenient to me. Like maybe as he knew he was being arrested he told her "Get down there and file for a divorce because I know the family will file a civil suit against me and if you file for a divorce they can't get your half."

Depends also I think on whether MN is a community property state where the spouse gets half of any assets acquired during the marriage.

JMO

Just adding we know Chauvin was in negotiations to plead to something before his arrest. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if they both made the decision about a divorce at the same time he was in negotiations for a plea regarding GF's murder.

 

[SleuthBee]

Maybe the accomplice officers mistakenly thought their Oath to Serve & Protect meant serve and protect their superior officers.

But ... thou shalt not violate the code of silence (sarc).

Interesting to see how many officers in that department stand in support of the fallen DC.

Retired Minneapolis Police sergeant Mike Quinn authored a revealing book about the code of silence in that police department. It looks to be an interesting read for those following this case. I think the title is quite appropriate as well.

 

[mickey2942]

But ... thou shalt not violate the code of silence (sarc).

Interesting to see how many officers in that department stand in support of the fallen DC.

Retired Minneapolis Police sergeant Mike Quinn authored a revealing book about the code of silence in that police department. It looks to be an interesting read for those following this case. I think the title is quite appropriate as well.

The "Wall of Silence" is not unique to police officers. Take the medical fields, same issue. Airlines, as well. Really, any bureaucratic group, of people who believe that "they" have an elite status, will develop the same code. "Us Against Them", mentality.

Which is why, if anyone had really stepped up and ended this situation, like Lane, would now be permanently on some stupid duty like, checking out park bathrooms. Dealing with ostracism, and peer bullying until he quit.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I know there was no alcohol. I am stating how he was described by the store clerk and how he appeared in the videos before Chauvin arrived. Chauvin is not the only guy that has been charged. But never mind. I will leave it to the lawyers. Most people have made up their minds all 4 cops are guilty already. There's not much point even having any discussion on this thread anymore IMO.

I appreciate your input

 

[Cubby]

Texas Prosecutor Says Officer Who Arrested George Floyd Likely Lied in 2004 Case

WSJ News Exclusive | Texas Prosecutor Says Officer Who Arrested George Floyd Likely Lied in 2004 Case

 

[Boxer]

The "Wall of Silence" is not unique to police officers. Take the medical fields, same issue. Airlines, as well. Really, any bureaucratic group, of people who believe that "they" have an elite status, will develop the same code. "Us Against Them", mentality.

Which is why, if anyone had really stepped up and ended this situation, like Lane, would now be permanently on some stupid duty like, checking out park bathrooms. Dealing with ostracism, and peer bullying until he quit.

Agree. Everyday people do step up, do the right thing and get their careers ruined for it. Cameras help.