MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #5
- Thread starter Tricia
- Start date
- Status
Nancy Grace and I think John Walsh from years ago(I haven't seen it)
I think this one is the one referring to DAH.
"FBI investigators noted a strong possibility that Jacob's kidnapping case was related to Jared's 9 months prior. A suspect was identified and a car was found that was owned by the suspect at the time of Jared's abduction. Fibers found in the car were similar to fibers from Jared's coat. The man was arrested (I could be wrong, but I believe this is the 1st time we ever heard about someone being arrested in Jared's case?) and charged, but charges were later dropped when the man lawyered up." I think (JMO) that the charges were dropped on Jared's case not so much because he lawyered up, but because he had so many other sex offenses they had enough to put him away for life.
The Stillwater one is probably Bahner. Wasn't that where Diane M. called and taped Bahner talking about it?
Ok, I'll give it a shot. I think the "hill" runs up a little as you go south towards the Wetterlings home from town/Tom Thumb? I'll be back tomorrow, I'm making you a map with my thoughts.
When i was young my brother and i trespassed into landy packing and Rebels (another abandoned meat packing plant located a few feet away from Landy Packing) on several occasions. The buildings had been abandoned for over a decade by the time my brother and I "toured" the facilities, and they were in complete disarray. The inside of the buildings looked as if they had been used as a trash dumping spot for many years, as some rooms had trash extending up to the ceiling. Other parts of the buildings were inaccessible, as floors and ceilings caved in. These places were flat out spooky! Based on my personal experience with the buildings, I think it is very likely these buildings may have housed human remains. Rebels was burnt to the ground around 1993 (arson) and landys was demolished shortly before.
Even when they were working businesses, the smell down there was awful. Between the rendering stored in huge dumpsters outside that got hauled away, and dead fish that had been discarded on the river bank back there. Ugh.
I think what Human is doing here is making the connection between DR's lisp to trauma (possible sexual abuse as a child), and therefore possible reason why he would want to abuse a child himself. It's not such a stretch.
There more I think about it, the more I see Jacob's abduction as a copycat crime (there is no way they didn't know the details all over town) and hence the gravelly voice and they seeming connection. I bet a gravelly voice could hide a lisp well enough- their exchange was limited as well so they didn't have a lot of time to hear a lisp.
Not such a stretch at all-
The following is taken directly from Joy's blog:
" Based on this information, we can make a few logical assumptions based on the type of person who took Jacob.
-He has a high sexual pre-occupation with children, meaning he probably has a history of watching/reading/collecting varioius types of kiddie *advertiser censored*.
-He has low social competence. This person seems just a little "off" to the average person.
-He has a low amount of contact with children. Combine that with his low social skills, and it's easy to see why this person would have to resort to ABDUCTING a child vs. enticing and manipulating them.
-In this study, 63% of the abductors used a weapon to intimidate their victims. Again, taking into account the abductor's low social skills and inexperience with children, he probably wouldn't want to take any chances that the child might resist.
-He was most likely a victim of sexual assault himself.
-He has never been married. "
Doesn't Vernon C. Seitz fit this profile exactly?
" Based on this information, we can make a few logical assumptions based on the type of person who took Jacob.
-He has a high sexual pre-occupation with children, meaning he probably has a history of watching/reading/collecting varioius types of kiddie *advertiser censored*.
-He has low social competence. This person seems just a little "off" to the average person.
-He has a low amount of contact with children. Combine that with his low social skills, and it's easy to see why this person would have to resort to ABDUCTING a child vs. enticing and manipulating them.
-In this study, 63% of the abductors used a weapon to intimidate their victims. Again, taking into account the abductor's low social skills and inexperience with children, he probably wouldn't want to take any chances that the child might resist.
-He was most likely a victim of sexual assault himself.
-He has never been married. "
Doesn't Vernon C. Seitz fit this profile exactly?
Seitz lived six hours away by car.
I could believe it if he had a connection to the area.
He was a barber. Lots of social interaction there. Up close and personal interaction.
DR fits it equally well as far as we know.
I could believe it if he had a connection to the area.
He was a barber. Lots of social interaction there. Up close and personal interaction.
DR fits it equally well as far as we know.
Seems to me, that info could apply to many of the possible suspects we have looked at here. DR, DAH, Feeney, Bahners??, Seitz, Meemken? and several monks/priests. (Question marks behind Bahners - because they did all marry I think. Not sure if Meemken was married or not.)
Map 1
This is an enlarged map (Map1) of the area between the Old Tom Thumb and Dale Street (which is north of DR's farm). I have also done a longer map, (Map2 - shown below) so you can see the whole area from the farm to Tom Thumb. I tried to gray out homes that weren't there back in 1989 so it is less confusing - that would have all been woods or fields back then. I may have missed a few, and I'm not even sure if 17th Ave. was there back in 1989. The old Tom Thumb (currently a vet office) is up at the top of the map (North). The area I have boxed in in pink is the area where I am guessing Ben may have lived. The area in green box is a possible home he could have been visiting earlier that night. (This is all just guessing and MOO.) But for Ben to have been able to see the Bahner brothers coming up out of the ditch/grass/woods down by the abduction site, I would think he may have had to have been as close as the area in the green square. When leaving, he would turn north and walk back towards his home DOWN the hill. As you can see, there were a couple different ways to get to Tom Thumb. If you're biking down 16th Ave., you could go straight down - all the way to East Minnesota st. and just follow the right curve around to Tom Thumb. That would probably be the way Jacob and boys would have gone. But when you are leaving Tom thumb, you could turn up 17th Ave. and go to Baker Street and then back to 16th Ave SE, or you could bike out the side exit at Tom Thumb and continue south on Minnesota Street until it runs into Baker street. There may have even been a small bike path that went directly from behind Tom Thumb through to 17th Street. I'm guessing this is what Ben meant when he said they saw the boys going to the store when ben and his dad were leaving Tom thumb, "but they must have gone back the other way." This implies to me that Ben may have lived somewhere within the pink square, because he would see the boys passing by on 16th, but wouldn't see them going back home if they cut up 17th and over to 16th on Baker St.
If you put this address into google maps: 9216 county rd. 134, St. Joseph, MN and drag the little orange man on to the road, you can walk the whole area from tom Thumb to DR's farm, and even up to Jacob's home on Kiwi Court.
This is an enlarged map (Map1) of the area between the Old Tom Thumb and Dale Street (which is north of DR's farm). I have also done a longer map, (Map2 - shown below) so you can see the whole area from the farm to Tom Thumb. I tried to gray out homes that weren't there back in 1989 so it is less confusing - that would have all been woods or fields back then. I may have missed a few, and I'm not even sure if 17th Ave. was there back in 1989. The old Tom Thumb (currently a vet office) is up at the top of the map (North). The area I have boxed in in pink is the area where I am guessing Ben may have lived. The area in green box is a possible home he could have been visiting earlier that night. (This is all just guessing and MOO.) But for Ben to have been able to see the Bahner brothers coming up out of the ditch/grass/woods down by the abduction site, I would think he may have had to have been as close as the area in the green square. When leaving, he would turn north and walk back towards his home DOWN the hill. As you can see, there were a couple different ways to get to Tom Thumb. If you're biking down 16th Ave., you could go straight down - all the way to East Minnesota st. and just follow the right curve around to Tom Thumb. That would probably be the way Jacob and boys would have gone. But when you are leaving Tom thumb, you could turn up 17th Ave. and go to Baker Street and then back to 16th Ave SE, or you could bike out the side exit at Tom Thumb and continue south on Minnesota Street until it runs into Baker street. There may have even been a small bike path that went directly from behind Tom Thumb through to 17th Street. I'm guessing this is what Ben meant when he said they saw the boys going to the store when ben and his dad were leaving Tom thumb, "but they must have gone back the other way." This implies to me that Ben may have lived somewhere within the pink square, because he would see the boys passing by on 16th, but wouldn't see them going back home if they cut up 17th and over to 16th on Baker St.
If you put this address into google maps: 9216 county rd. 134, St. Joseph, MN and drag the little orange man on to the road, you can walk the whole area from tom Thumb to DR's farm, and even up to Jacob's home on Kiwi Court.
You are amazing Sher.
Although we can see this because of a birdseye view, what is the reality of Ben seeing what he says he saw?
That is a long distance to see things. And there are things such as trees in the way.
Where is Ben? Why have we not heard more from him?
There are plenty of murdering creeps that were married. BTK comes to mind right away.
Although we can see this because of a birdseye view, what is the reality of Ben seeing what he says he saw?
That is a long distance to see things. And there are things such as trees in the way.
Where is Ben? Why have we not heard more from him?
There are plenty of murdering creeps that were married. BTK comes to mind right away.
It's not really that great of a distance. All the way from Jacob's home to the old Tom Thumb was approx. 1 mile. From the green square to DR's ditch is like standing on one end of a residential block and seeing what's on the other corner. It may even be a shorter distance than that. (I'd go volunteer to go stand out there and check how far I can see, but I feel weird just driving down that road, personally. I always figure people living out there think you are being nosy about where Jacob was taken from - even after all these years.)
I think if you were a young boy, you would recognize other young boys you knew by their clothing, how they moved, etc. from that far easily.
I think if you were a young boy, you would recognize other young boys you knew by their clothing, how they moved, etc. from that far easily.
CanManEh
New Member
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2008
- Messages
- 1,827
- Reaction score
- 62
I watched a you tube thing last night and iam almost sure its from arron one of the boys .i don't know when he did it he sounds older so i think its recently its 11 minutes long .anyway from what i heard and read it dont seem like thier was a car around anywhere for the kidnapper to put jacob into and to take off ..Is that the general consences that well i don't know where or what he did but he vanished with jacob ya but he didn't use a vehicle to do so ...is that what everyone agrees on or no...I do know though that it is one cops theory that jacob was taken in a car thats what it said in the youtube video but it didn't name the officer just that one cop theorises he was taken by car......so iam just wondering where you all stand on that vehicle or no vehicle ....
Shergal,
Thank you so much for doing this! Really insightful + helpful to understand Ben's explanation. Amazing. Your analysis makes his words plausible. I wonder if he was even closer tho to the abduction site given the darkness. I will have to study this in more depth.
Is there any documentation of when the boys left the house? I wonder how this map will fit into the time frame?
Meemken was married, RB,Jr+ MB not(according to RB obit).
Seitz..supposedly gay. Although social, people said he was 'off' + some leary of him. He was known to travel as a psychic. Not sure if he could be a suspect in this case but sure exhibited all of the profile signs. DR...never heard of him having any child *advertiser censored*...would think if he did they would have found it.
Shergal,
Thank you so much for doing this! Really insightful + helpful to understand Ben's explanation. Amazing. Your analysis makes his words plausible. I wonder if he was even closer tho to the abduction site given the darkness. I will have to study this in more depth.
Is there any documentation of when the boys left the house? I wonder how this map will fit into the time frame?
Yes, CanMan, Aaron has always said they saw no cars or heard no cars anywhere near the abduction site. The cars we have discussed were seen closer to the Tom Thumb store, and not out on the dead end road from Jacob's house. It seems to be mixed feelings here, some feel a car could have been hidden further up DR's driveway. But then others (like me) wonder why some abductor would just be hiding there, out in the middle of nowhere basically, waiting in case some boys went by late at night. Some feel the boys were followed by the abductor from Tom Thumb, but that doesn't explain how he would have got ahead of them, hid the car, and been standing in the road.
Then there's DR, who saw cars whipping in and out of his yard all day and night, three, I think, at last count. IMO, the simplest explanation of that would be the polka fest that was going on at the Del-Win ballroom that day. That would attract lots of people to that area who were not familiar with where roads went. The Del-Win was just north of DR's property, and I imagine there was some good old German beer there. I can see some non-local leaving the polka fest, driving into DR's driveway thinking it was a road out of there and then realizing it was a private drive when they got way up by the house - and peeling out. I don't really see anything suspicious in cars going up a driveway out in the country. But that's just MOO.
- Status