MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #8

[Sigrun]

Lets try to get facts right:

JW taken from the ditch and led into DR's driveway. Tire tracks and shoe prints visible. Nike shoes believed to be the same size and style of Jacob's.
Perp was same height as Merle according to Trevor (child), the 911 caller, 5 foot 10, 195 with a "stocking-type" thing on his head (unsure if it was a ski mask or nylons, but there was something bunched up in the back like the remaining part of nylons) with a "shiny thing" believe to be a gun.

Known people at the scene:
Jacob's brother and friend
DR, has no alibi (no arrest record)
Kevin, who was with his gf (unknown of prior record)
Feeney (priors for molesting boys) who claims to have an alibi that was possibly checked out by LE
Bahner brothers (priors for molesting boys) who claim to be in the ditch with Lou in a car, Ben Bina (lengthy arrest record) claims to have seen the brothers that night.

Thanks JBrown, this is helpful. You listed these as known to be on the scene. Beginning with Feeney on down, isn't it the case that we are relying on the claims made by people whose credibility is hard to establish? Not saying it isn't true, but should we really rate our confidence in those the same way? In the case of DR and K+K we have the police verifying DR's presence and in the case of K+K we have relatives at least corroborating he was there in some capacity. Granted, there could have been some obfuscation in that, but it looks like he was there at some point and time. My reasoning is to give a higher priority to the first two, while keeping open the possibility of the others.

~ svh

 

[FindTim]

The blue 4 door was used in one of the confirmed cases in Paynesville. Also, DR noted the blue 4 door under hypnosis.

The dark blue car that DR said he witnesses at around 9-9:15 which is the time of abduction must not have had tires on it, law enforcement ruled out any other vehicle being at the scene. This means all tire tracks match known cars and there are no unknown tracks. This means that DR lied about the dark blue car with a woman or child in passenger seat. If I recall correctly, Jared's abduction and assault WAS published in the news along with the color and type of vehicle, not sure if Paynesville incidents were also published in media but if DR read the paper or heard the news, he would know that there was already a situation that he could copy and that would take the heat off of him right away. And that is exactly what happened. Although I would say he copies the Paynesville incidents more, no car involved, mask and don't turn around or I'll shoot.

In my opinion of course.

 

[Sigrun]

Thanks for this, Silverngold.

Didn't DR make some mention of his woodpile the night of the abduction? He was shining a flashlight on it since he heard a disturbance, maybe?

All I remember is, I do remember DR specifically mentioning his woodpile.

Could this have been a "Tell?"

Yes, he was worried about the police being around it, imo

~ svh

 

[Shay]

Thanks JBrown, this is helpful. You listed these as known to be on the scene. Beginning with Feeney on down, isn't it the case that we are relying on the claims made by people whose credibility is hard to establish? Not saying it isn't true, but should we really rate our confidence in those the same way? In the case of DR and K+K we have the police verifying DR's presence and in the case of K+K we have relatives at least corroborating he was there in some capacity. Granted, there could have been some obfuscation in that, but it looks like he was there at some point and time. My reasoning is to give a higher priority to the first two, while keeping open the possibility of the others.

~ svh

BBM

I've never heard any relative come forward to offer corroboration. In fact, no one has ever said they saw "Kevin" that night. I'm not even convinced there is a Kevin...at least in the real sense. Couldn't it be plausible that Kevin was invented by investigators? (Not sure what the purpose of this would be other than to throw the real perf off-guard.)

Now, if the Tom Thumb clerk or the cop stationed at the Cotton's office were on record somewhere stating they talked to a Kevin, then I guess he is real and his version of events could have happened.

 

[Silverngold]

Thanks for this, Silverngold.

Didn't DR make some mention of his woodpile the night of the abduction? He was shining a flashlight on it since he heard a disturbance, maybe?

All I remember is, I do remember DR specifically mentioning his woodpile.

Could this have been a "Tell?"

Your welcome! Sigrum can you elaborate axis 1 and axis 2 with DR in mind? I know you started to earlier. What else do you think?

 

[Sigrun]

:banghead:

I see you don't think DR was involved. But you seem to be implying you know K&K were not either. How do you know that? Is this based on the sedan? I'm asking because if DR is totally out of the loop and the Grand Prix drove normally up the driveway, the real perpetrator could have been in another car and left those tracks.

~ svh

 

[human]

Please repost link to auction site. Also, does anyone have a Google Earth image of the Huber property pre demolition of the buildings and selling of the vehicles?

Too lazy to do it. It's in the last couple of pages, I suppose

 

[human]

I was stonewalled by the Sheriff's department.

I gather it is a 25 year old "active investigation".

I wish you better luck.

I was helping a friend who does not live in the US to find out about the murder of his very very wealthy grandmother.

I got a bit of info but not much. Active investigation. Murder, 1969

 

[HEY YOU!]

Yes, he was worried about the police being around it, imo

~ svh

Where did you hear that DR was worried about police being around the woodpile?

 

[HEY YOU!]

The blue 4 door was used in one of the confirmed cases in Paynesville. Also, DR noted the blue 4 door under hypnosis.

DR noted the blue 4 door under hypnosis according to police or according to DR? Because DR is the only one who places another vehicle in his driveway at almost exactly the time of abduction even though law enforcement found no evidence of tire tracks other than Kevin's and Rassier vehicles.

 

[shergal]

RB, MB, BB, MF, K and His BFF.

And Ben (BB) placed Lou (LK) there also. Sigrun - for explanation of initials, see the who's who. It's on the first page of every Jacob thread.

(Post # 2 here):
MN MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, 22 Oct 1989 ***CASE FACTS***NO DISCUSSION*** - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[human]

That's actually a big misconception. It's free up to 2 hours and 100 pages, among many other exceptions...

That has not been my experience, but I never requested crime stuff

 

[FindTim]

Jared believes all these cases are linked and this was all achieved by a single abductor and I'm inclined to believe him. He's spoken with the Wetterlings and some of the Paynesville victims.

There are too many consistencies in the Paynesville/Cold Spring/St Joseph that align to form the conclusion that these acts were carried out by the same indiviual. DR is completely out as he taught music class at ROCORI Middle School and Jared has confirmed that DR did not abduct him.

The commonality that a blue 4 door was present for these acts can't be ignored, and is the strongest piece of evidence. I'm inclined to believe that a hypnotized DR, just weeks after the Wetterling abduction spoke the truth.

As for K&K, I don't believe 4 people corroborated to kidnap a kid on a whim, and than keep it a secret for 25 years.

I see you don't think DR was involved. But you seem to be implying you know K&K were not either. How do you know that? Is this based on the sedan? I'm asking because if DR is totally out of the loop and the Grand Prix drove normally up the driveway, the real perpetrator could have been in another car and left those tracks.

~ svh

 

[FindTim]

I think the single most important thing that LE can do right now is comb the Huber property. I think a grave mistake took place when the property was sold, demolished and burned.

Also, unfortunately title history only goes back 7 years in MN. It would be on the top of my list as a LE agent to find out what vehicle(s) the Huber's owned circa 1986-1989. Perhaps neighbors could help with this?

 

[shergal]

Jared believes all these cases are linked and this was all achieved by a single abductor and I'm inclined to believe him. He's spoken with the Wetterlings and some of the Paynesville victims.

There are too many consistencies in the Paynesville/Cold Spring/St Joseph that align to form the conclusion that these acts were carried out by the same indiviual. DR is completely out as he taught music class at ROCORI Middle School and Jared has confirmed that DR did not abduct him.

The commonality that a blue 4 door was present for these acts can't be ignored, and is the strongest piece of evidence. I'm inclined to believe that a hypnotized DR, just weeks after the Wetterling abduction spoke the truth.

As for K&K, I don't believe 4 people corroborated to kidnap a kid on a whim, and than keep it a secret for 25 years.

I would agree that DR is completely out in Jared's abduction. IMO, that does not completely leave out any connections he may have, or info he knows about Jacob's abduction. IMO, he has an idea who Jacob's abductor was and has been protecting that person for 25 years.

 

[FindTim]

Are you inclined to believe that even if Trevor, Aaron and Jared are of the belief that it's the same individual?

I would agree that DR is completely out in Jared's abduction. IMO, that does not completely leave out any connections he may have, or info he knows about Jacob's abduction. IMO, he has an idea who Jacob's abductor was and has been protecting that person for 25 years.

 

[human]

sigrun, thread #4, post 850 by Lotus:

This is rather frightening. A known pedophile placing himself at the scene of Jacob's abduction just before it happened: http://www.behindthepinecurtain.com/...ob-wetterling/
Matthew Feeney (re Jacob Wetterling)
Topics: Jacob Wetterling, Matthew Feeney
The night Jacob was taken I was returning from a Youth Group event and dropping off XXXXXX (who lived across from the Wetterlings) so we were by the 7-11 and drove down the Wetterling road within an hour (if not minutes) of the actual abduction. – Matthew Feeney (October 26, 2010)

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118670&page=34

I am mystified by this. Wetterlings lived in a cul de sac of three to five homes. Not sure how many were there at that time, 3 or 5. Is there even one across from them now?

MF sure could be checked out quickly with that statement

 

[human]

For starters, everything implementing DR as the kidnapper is speculation. The only true fact in this case is Jacob is missing. Though, there are first hand witnesses who's credibility should not be discounted. The following 4 items are consistent with the witnesses testimony:

A dark blue 4 door was witnessed at abductions or attempted abductions in Paynesville, Cold Spring and St Joseph

A man threatened children with a gun

The man had a raspy voice

The perp collected souvenirs

I truly believe all these cases are related, and currently, there are no known FACTS worth noting that separate them.

Blue car in St. joseph? Verified?

Raspy voice with the ones above?

 

[FindTim]

They need to send cadaver dogs to the former Huber property.

The third and final suspect had not been cleared. He was a Paynesville area man that fit the description of the man that had assaulted 12 year old "Jared" in Cold Spring in January, 1989. Investigators said the man was not a top suspect in Jacob's case, but a paragraph in the search warrant had been blocked out without explanation.

 

[human]

Are you inclined to believe that even if Trevor, Aaron and Jared are of the belief that it's the same individual?

Do you have anything that shows this?