MO - Furious Friends Demand Answers After 3 Men Found Dead at Kansas City Home Days After Watching Football Game, January 2024 #3

[10ofRods]

Jmo, most users/buyers do not know their coke is laced, nor do their local dealers. I know of 2 dealers who got out of that business because they were finding out too late that their coke was laced. I also think most dope is created or stepped on in our own countries, US and Canada, not cartels, just at a much higher level than the average dealer. Jmo

But the DEA says that fake pills that look like adderall or xanax are the most common form of fentanyl sold in the US. Millions of them. I found more pictures - and the fake adderall that is scored for breaking in half does look almost exactly like real adderall.

What I'd love to know is whether some people buy it, thinking it's adderall (then die as they are not opiate addicted) or whether the dealers tell them up front that it's fentanyl. DEA says that there's a potentially lethal dose of fentanyl in 6 out of 10 of the fake pills they have recovered in drug busts.

A local LEO told me, as I said upthread, that sometimes the fake pills are ground up and used in the same place where the other drugs (like cocaine) are also weighed and packaged. It's just so hard to understand why drug dealers would willingly pay for fentanyl and then put some of it in cocaine. Other, cheaper things make cocaine go further. Maybe because it's there (the fake pills) and it's handy and they don't know any better?

I do wonder if the street level dealers know that the coke is laced. DEA says two cartels are mostly responsible for the fake pills (they don't mention where the laced cocaine is coming from in anything I've read so far).

If no one knows the fentanyl is in the coke (at the street level), I'm going to guess that it may be cross-contamination at a much higher level up. Drug dealers do sell pure fentanyl (at least in AZ) and in WA, the pills are popular - and only 50 cents each at their lowest price point. Surely people return to their dealer for the same high (knowing it's not xanax or adderall).

DEA quote below, with link. That page also mentions that fentanyl is processed into pills that look like oxycodone or other Rx opiates (that I can understand). It's also made into nose spray and sold in that matter for direct use of fentanyl.

Illicit fentanyl, primarily manufactured in foreign clandestine labs and smuggled into the United States through Mexico, is being distributed across the country and sold on the illegal drug market.

Facts about Fentanyl

Forms of Fentanyl Citrate Fentanyl is a synthetic opioid typically used to treat patients with chronic severe pain or severe pain following surgery. Fentanyl is a Schedule II controlled substance that is similar to morphine but about 100 times more potent. Under the supervision of a licensed...

www.dea.gov

 

[darring21]

What is the crime? The deaths or the drug taking?

Providing drugs that led to death seems to be the only possible crime. They got bad coke, that seemed obvious to many at the beginning, and I don't think anyone had bad intentions. The only unknown is who sold the drugs and who bought and brought the drugs. Does the host have any criminal or civil liability? The phone data may answer that question.

 

[DFWNF]

But the DEA says that fake pills that look like adderall or xanax are the most common form of fentanyl sold in the US. Millions of them. I found more pictures - and the fake adderall that is scored for breaking in half does look almost exactly like real adderall.

What I'd love to know is whether some people buy it, thinking it's adderall (then die as they are not opiate addicted) or whether the dealers tell them up front that it's fentanyl. DEA says that there's a potentially lethal dose of fentanyl in 6 out of 10 of the fake pills they have recovered in drug busts.

A local LEO told me, as I said upthread, that sometimes the fake pills are ground up and used in the same place where the other drugs (like cocaine) are also weighed and packaged. It's just so hard to understand why drug dealers would willingly pay for fentanyl and then put some of it in cocaine. Other, cheaper things make cocaine go further. Maybe because it's there (the fake pills) and it's handy and they don't know any better?

I do wonder if the street level dealers know that the coke is laced. DEA says two cartels are mostly responsible for the fake pills (they don't mention where the laced cocaine is coming from in anything I've read so far).

If no one knows the fentanyl is in the coke (at the street level), I'm going to guess that it may be cross-contamination at a much higher level up. Drug dealers do sell pure fentanyl (at least in AZ) and in WA, the pills are popular - and only 50 cents each at their lowest price point. Surely people return to their dealer for the same high (knowing it's not xanax or adderall).

DEA quote below, with link. That page also mentions that fentanyl is processed into pills that look like oxycodone or other Rx opiates (that I can understand). It's also made into nose spray and sold in that matter for direct use of fentanyl.

Facts about Fentanyl

Forms of Fentanyl Citrate Fentanyl is a synthetic opioid typically used to treat patients with chronic severe pain or severe pain following surgery. Fentanyl is a Schedule II controlled substance that is similar to morphine but about 100 times more potent. Under the supervision of a licensed...

www.dea.gov

It is odd, the fellows I knew dealt as far as they knew, cocaine, and had no idea the coke they sold was laced with fentanyl. That made things too much of a heat score and they got out of the biz. Always seemed like a crazy a crazy thing, why fentanyl was used, plenty of not life ending items could be used. Seems all kinds of overdoses are "accidental", which in large part I interpret as unaware.

 

[DFWNF]

Providing drugs that led to death seems to be the only possible crime. They got bad coke, that seemed obvious to many at the beginning, and I don't think anyone had bad intentions. The only unknown is who sold the drugs and who bought and brought the drugs. Does the host have any criminal or civil liability? The phone data may answer that question.

I believe 2 celeb cases involving drugs laced with fentanyl had charges laid against the dealers of Demi Lovato and Mac Miller, pills not powder iirc.

 

[NovaBeans]

So they could be seen out the windows?

If blinds were not drawn, it could have been possible through several windows depending where bodies were. Definitely through the sliding glass doors in the dining room. But who knows if he goes in those rooms on a daily basis. It's a pretty big house.

 

[nao]

Moo ..cross contamination could easily happen a few times as the product is cut and weighed down the line of large to street level dealers, if dealers are dealing multiple chemicals. Does not make much sense for large dealers to sell contaminated product because it needs to be good quality to sell in bulk. But when you get closer to street level there will be more dealers that are actually addicted so crushing up some pills as filler is much more likely..... moo

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

Exactly. And also average size/body mass.

And no one knows how long a person can be "clean" and then have to start all over again at low doses of unprescribed drugs.

This has just reminded me of something I was taught in a summer class last year, it was a psychology course and we were taught about how the brain associates with certain environments when drug taking. For an example, if a drug user always takes his/her hits, in a bathroom, the brain associates the drug taking with being in the bathroom and as the tolerance grows so does this association but then for one reason or another, the drug taker takes drugs in a different environment, for example, the park, the brain doesn't recognise this environment associated with the drugs and acts completely differently, metabolising the drug in a completely different way and without the built up tolerance.
We were told that this situation accounts for many OD deaths in long term users.


Environment Contributes To Drug Tolerance - ScienceDaily

"If the same amount of a drug is administered in one context and later in another different and distinct context, then the effects of the drug are different," Cepeda-Benito says.

"The drug has a much greater effect in a novel context rather than in a context that is associated with the administered drug."

Cepeda-Benito, who has studied morphine and nicotine's effects, terms this phenomenon "learned tolerance," and says gradual desensitization to a drug can be developed not only by repeated use of the drug, but also through a learning process that involves recognizing the environment.

In other words, a person consuming a drug in a setting where he or she usually consumes the drug or even expects to consume it will be less likely to feel the full effects of the drug, he says.

However, if that same person takes the same amount of the drug in a setting where he or she doesn't normally take the drug, then the person is likely to feel a greater effect from the drug."

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

I don't believe JW knew the cocaine was ever there. And when he spoke with LE, I doubt they told him that death could be from a drug overdose.

I also don't believe his treatment for addiction is a form of avoidance. I think it is for alcohol+cannabis addiction and he wants to keep his job.

jmo

Maybe he has used stimulants to keep himself working, I have heard many stories of university students using stimulants to get assignments done or to cram for an exam. Maybe he has done that in the past and got addicted.
JMO

 

[10ofRods]

This has just reminded me of something I was taught in a summer class last year, it was a psychology course and we were taught about how the brain associates with certain environments when drug taking. For an example, if a drug user always takes his/her hits, in a bathroom, the brain associates the drug taking with being in the bathroom and as the tolerance grows so does this association but then for one reason or another, the drug taker takes drugs in a different environment, for example, the park, the brain doesn't recognise this environment associated with the drugs and acts completely differently, metabolising the drug in a completely different way and without the built up tolerance.
We were told that this situation accounts for many OD deaths in long term users.


Environment Contributes To Drug Tolerance - ScienceDaily

"If the same amount of a drug is administered in one context and later in another different and distinct context, then the effects of the drug are different," Cepeda-Benito says.

"The drug has a much greater effect in a novel context rather than in a context that is associated with the administered drug."

Cepeda-Benito, who has studied morphine and nicotine's effects, terms this phenomenon "learned tolerance," and says gradual desensitization to a drug can be developed not only by repeated use of the drug, but also through a learning process that involves recognizing the environment.

In other words, a person consuming a drug in a setting where he or she usually consumes the drug or even expects to consume it will be less likely to feel the full effects of the drug, he says.

However, if that same person takes the same amount of the drug in a setting where he or she doesn't normally take the drug, then the person is likely to feel a greater effect from the drug."

That's fascinating. Adrenalin would be involved, just for starters.

This and the article posted by @girlhasnoname are really helping me begin to understand why people might mix drugs. I'm guessing that a lot of drug users just know that each drug (individually) is tolerated by them - although why anyone would knowingly try street fentanyl without a prior opiate addiction still puzzles me. I can see someone thinking that THC just isn't getting them high enough - so add something else in. But fentanyl?? I guess because it's synethetic, is cheap and widely available. I found an article from a WA newspaper saying that fentanyl in pill form can be gotten for 50 cents...

 

[branmuffin]

But the DEA says that fake pills that look like adderall or xanax are the most common form of fentanyl sold in the US. Millions of them. I found more pictures - and the fake adderall that is scored for breaking in half does look almost exactly like real adderall.

What I'd love to know is whether some people buy it, thinking it's adderall (then die as they are not opiate addicted) or whether the dealers tell them up front that it's fentanyl. DEA says that there's a potentially lethal dose of fentanyl in 6 out of 10 of the fake pills they have recovered in drug busts.

A local LEO told me, as I said upthread, that sometimes the fake pills are ground up and used in the same place where the other drugs (like cocaine) are also weighed and packaged. It's just so hard to understand why drug dealers would willingly pay for fentanyl and then put some of it in cocaine. Other, cheaper things make cocaine go further. Maybe because it's there (the fake pills) and it's handy and they don't know any better?

I do wonder if the street level dealers know that the coke is laced. DEA says two cartels are mostly responsible for the fake pills (they don't mention where the laced cocaine is coming from in anything I've read so far).

If no one knows the fentanyl is in the coke (at the street level), I'm going to guess that it may be cross-contamination at a much higher level up. Drug dealers do sell pure fentanyl (at least in AZ) and in WA, the pills are popular - and only 50 cents each at their lowest price point. Surely people return to their dealer for the same high (knowing it's not xanax or adderall).

DEA quote below, with link. That page also mentions that fentanyl is processed into pills that look like oxycodone or other Rx opiates (that I can understand). It's also made into nose spray and sold in that matter for direct use of fentanyl.

Facts about Fentanyl

Forms of Fentanyl Citrate Fentanyl is a synthetic opioid typically used to treat patients with chronic severe pain or severe pain following surgery. Fentanyl is a Schedule II controlled substance that is similar to morphine but about 100 times more potent. Under the supervision of a licensed...

www.dea.gov

I'd be interested to know whether any of the deceased and including all 5 attendees had been prescribed medical fentanyl for pain management. I'm aware that CG had a motorcycle accident a few years ago which may have resulted in a chemical dependency. So is it possible that some drug users, especially those who were prescribed the drug by their doctor who now refuses to refill prescriptions because of all the bad press, opt to take fentanyl without realizing how deadly the stuff is. I mean you'd have to live under a rock these days not to be aware of the dangers of the drug but addictions are powerful motivators to rationalize the behavior.

 

[SMK777]

This has just reminded me of something I was taught in a summer class last year, it was a psychology course and we were taught about how the brain associates with certain environments when drug taking. For an example, if a drug user always takes his/her hits, in a bathroom, the brain associates the drug taking with being in the bathroom and as the tolerance grows so does this association but then for one reason or another, the drug taker takes drugs in a different environment, for example, the park, the brain doesn't recognise this environment associated with the drugs and acts completely differently, metabolising the drug in a completely different way and without the built up tolerance.
We were told that this situation accounts for many OD deaths in long term users.


Environment Contributes To Drug Tolerance - ScienceDaily

"If the same amount of a drug is administered in one context and later in another different and distinct context, then the effects of the drug are different," Cepeda-Benito says.

"The drug has a much greater effect in a novel context rather than in a context that is associated with the administered drug."

Cepeda-Benito, who has studied morphine and nicotine's effects, terms this phenomenon "learned tolerance," and says gradual desensitization to a drug can be developed not only by repeated use of the drug, but also through a learning process that involves recognizing the environment.

In other words, a person consuming a drug in a setting where he or she usually consumes the drug or even expects to consume it will be less likely to feel the full effects of the drug, he says.

However, if that same person takes the same amount of the drug in a setting where he or she doesn't normally take the drug, then the person is likely to feel a greater effect from the drug."

This is why fatal doses have happened in hotel rooms while on vacation: The person was fine with the dose at home, and didn’t realize it would be an overdose on vacation.

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

Fentanyl Testing Strips instrux*
I'm curious what ppl who thought about trying FTS or who have used these strips have to say.
Anyone actually using these in the context of a party or other social gathering?
Is this something a small time friends & family dealer might do?
Or only ppl in the distribution/supply chain btwn illegal manuf's & end users would do?

__________________________
* "How to use fentanyl test strips....
Step 1: Put a small amount (at least 10mg) of your drugs aside in a clean, dry container.
Step 2: Add water to the container and mix together.
Please note: For most drugs, you need ½ teaspoon of water. If you are testing methamphetamines, use1 full teaspoon.
Step 3: Place the wavy end of the test strip down in the water and let it absorb for about 15 seconds.
Step 4: Take the strip out of the water and place it on a flat surface for 2 to 5 minutes."

Fentanyl Test Strips: A Harm Reduction Strategy

www.cdc.gov

I lived in subsidised housing a few years ago and many addicts were living in the same complex. Nearly every weekend there would be police, fire and ambulances flying into the complex and many neighbours would 'take their dogs for a walk' or 'need to check the mail at the mail boxes' etc and would go to be nosey. There were overdoses where the user survived, come back to the complex and start taking again, there were times they overdosed and died. There was also a few of the addicts that started to meet up in the evenings, very late, when everyone else was asleep, I would wake up from hearing them screaming or shouting, they would be all over the place, trying to hold each other up etc. Police would always take ages to come and they had normally moved on, but this group were smoking fentenayl patches, I have no idea how they smoked them or what the process was, but one of them was either prescribed the patches or they were buying them from someone else, but they were smoking it somehow.

 

[branmuffin]

Providing drugs that led to death seems to be the only possible crime. They got bad coke, that seemed obvious to many at the beginning, and I don't think anyone had bad intentions. The only unknown is who sold the drugs and who bought and brought the drugs. Does the host have any criminal or civil liability? The phone data may answer that question.

Since there is a possibility that all attendees took drugs that night it becomes a logistical nightmare as to who brought what and who they bought it off. And if family members are in the know, they might circle the wagons and not cooperate as a self preservation measure.

 

[MyBelle]

Fascinating research and with good results in some areas, particularly with Parkinsons disease and with altzehimer disease in early stages. The research related to drug addiction may yield some good results, although as of the writing of this article, it seems like it is still too early to say.

iirc, that research is in conjunction with the NIH and it sounds very promising. We had never heard of the "brain blood barrier" until we saw that 60 Minutes story. For Alzheimer's patients, the ultrasound penetrates that so that medicines can reach those areas of the brain. We have a relative with early-stage dementia and he's willing to participate in research studies.

Our son watched that program with us and he was flabbergasted about implanting pacemakers in the brain to treat addiction. He just lost a friend to a drug overdose. He had been "clean" for two years. We're now wondering if the drug he took was laced with fentanyl. The friend lived in Atlanta and his family is waiting on the toxicology report.

JMO

 

[Squeakylove]

Which "friends" were there when the police arrived? Did they remove evidence then?
IMO.

Has it been established that Willis' two dogs were at his parents during this incident? When did he take them there and why?

 

[Cedars]

Does not make much sense for large dealers to sell contaminated product because it needs to be good quality to sell in bulk. But when you get closer to street level there will be more dealers that are actually addicted so crushing up some pills as filler is much more likely..... moo

I believe the illegal drug business is constantly changing in any particular location because of law enforcement crackdowns, new players trying to bring in different kinds of product, gang rivalries at all levels, changing user preferences, etc.

So, just as an example, a newcomer to the business might find a source for cheaper, lower quality cocaine, and then, by mixing it with fenty they can produce twice as many batches, so offer it at a lower price. Meanwhile, because of a DEA raid, or cartel violence, the better quality cocaine is in short supply, and the cheaper stuff is snapped up. That dealer is careful, for a while, and makes so much money, he doesn't care if one batch goes wrong, he's working on the next batch....

There's nobody running quality control, there's no information sharing between producers, there's no one thinking ahead about the long term. It's all, get as much money as you can today, because who knows what'll happen tomorrow.

Why anyone would trust these people about stuff they put in their bodies is beyond me - but they do...

JMO

 

[CrimeDawg123]

So they could be seen out the windows?

Of course. They were right flipping there!

 

[Curious Me]

A lethal dose of fentanyl (2 mg) and penny.

Missouri’s Fentanyl Problem: The China Connection

Recently, Missouri has followed an overall upward trend in opioid overdose deaths. In 2018, Missouri was the state with the largest absolute and percentage increase in opioid-related overdose fatality rates per capita over the previous year (18.3% and ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Missouri’s Fentanyl Problem: The China Connection

Recently, Missouri has followed an overall upward trend in opioid overdose deaths. In 2018, Missouri was the state with the largest absolute and percentage increase in opioid-related overdose fatality rates per capita over the previous year (18.3% and ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Thank You for posting this @imstilla.grandma. It very informative. Oh, but the case studies are tragic though. I would not want to live with such a demanding, consuming addiction as that one man.

I had no idea the problem Missouri has been having with fentanyl and the increase in deaths in that state.

Supply is creating demand. MOO, there's too much of it out there, and big supply means it's cheap. Remember the DEA confiscated in 2022 enough fentanyl to kill every American. Looking at this beyond just a street level problem. China and Mexico got to police within, IMO, so I think the problem will require further political moves to ensure it doesn't continue because this problem is beyond a rehab treatment level fix. All MOO​

 

[MyBelle]

I believe the illegal drug business is constantly changing in any particular location because of law enforcement crackdowns, new players trying to bring in different kinds of product, gang rivalries at all levels, changing user preferences, etc.

So, just as an example, a newcomer to the business might find a source for cheaper, lower quality cocaine, and then, by mixing it with fenty they can produce twice as many batches, so offer it at a lower price. Meanwhile, because of a DEA raid, or cartel violence, the better quality cocaine is in short supply, and the cheaper stuff is snapped up. That dealer is careful, for a while, and makes so much money, he doesn't care if one batch goes wrong, he's working on the next batch....

There's nobody running quality control, there's no information sharing between producers, there's no one thinking ahead about the long term. It's all, get as much money as you can today, because who knows what'll happen tomorrow.

Why anyone would trust these people about stuff they put in their bodies is beyond me - but they do...

JMO

BBM. So very true, pure greed is what motivates the drug cartels bringing in this poison.

JMO

 

[Charlot123]

@10ofRods I always go to NIH for the most reliable information.

Causes, Nature and Toxicology of Fentanyl-Associated Deaths: A Systematic Review of Deaths Reported in Peer-Reviewed Literature​

Causes, Nature and Toxicology of Fentanyl-Associated Deaths: A Systematic Review of Deaths Reported in Peer-Reviewed Literature

This KC case has become huge, specifically because it is so commonplace. I searched the numbers of fentanyl-related deaths in Europe. It "might become" a problem for Europe, because ironically, the Talibans are hitting on poppyseed plantations in Afghanistan, but it is not a problem yet. It is as big of a problem for Canada as it is for US. Just some food for thought. US and Canada are the two biggest countries targeted. DEA sites have .pdf articles (hard to attach them here) showing maps of the traffic, very openly. Where it is produced, how it comes here, all is shown.

Fentanyl kills thousands every year in America. Will Europe be next?

The deadly drug may be coming to European shores

www.economist.com

So yesterday on DEA site I found "illicit drug threat assessment" - interesting, by states and territories.
And also, DEA intelligence report, "Fentanyl flow to the United States". Pretty obvious... I would recommend. Open access.