MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #15

[Truthy]

I don't think you understand how many moving parts there are to an investigation like this. Everyone has a specific role.
Have you ever noticed at pressers, how often the mic gets past around to answer questions...how often one person will defer to another?
So early on ..IMO it's impossible for any one person to "know" everything ...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You really think the Chief went up there in front of the press without knowing the basics- yet he spoke about them with confidence?
That makes zero sense,IMHO, that he wouldn't know what initiated the event. It's his job to know- that's HIS "moving part", LOL.
That's pretty implausible. Not buying it. 3/4 of those defending the misinformation think it was a brilliant PR ploy, now he can't even do the basics of his job right.

 

[Truthy]

[h=1]Workers who were witnesses provide new perspective on Michael Brown shooting[/h]About a half-hour later, the worker heard a gunshot. Then he saw Brown running away from a police car. Wilson trailed about 10 to 15 feet behind, gun in hand. About 90 feet away from the car, the worker said, Wilson fired another shot at Brown, whose back was turned.

The worker said Brown stumbled and then stopped, put his hands up, turned around and said, “OK, OK, OK, OK, OK.” He said he told investigators from the St. Louis County police and the FBI that because of the stumble, it seemed to him that Brown had been wounded.

<snip>


Wilson, gun drawn, also stopped about 10 feet in front of Brown, the worker said.

Then Brown moved, the worker said. &#8220;He&#8217;s kind of walking back toward the cop.&#8221; He said Brown&#8217;s hands were still up.

Wilson began backing up as he fired, the worker said.

After the third shot, Brown&#8217;s hands started going down, and he moved about 25 feet toward Wilson, who kept backing away and firing. The worker said he could not tell from where he watched &#8212; about 50 feet away &#8212; if Brown&#8217;s motion toward Wilson after the shots was &#8220;a stumble to the ground&#8221; or &#8220;OK, I&#8217;m going to get you, you&#8217;re already shooting me.&#8221;


http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...tml?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

Wow, fits the basics of what the majority of witnesses have said so far. Shot toward his back at first. No bum rush.

 

[Elley Mae]

[h=1]Workers who were witnesses provide new perspective on Michael Brown shooting[/h]About a half-hour later, the worker heard a gunshot. Then he saw Brown running away from a police car. Wilson trailed about 10 to 15 feet behind, gun in hand. About 90 feet away from the car, the worker said, Wilson fired another shot at Brown, whose back was turned.

The worker said Brown stumbled and then stopped, put his hands up, turned around and said, &#8220;OK, OK, OK, OK, OK.&#8221; He said he told investigators from the St. Louis County police and the FBI that because of the stumble, it seemed to him that Brown had been wounded.

<snip>


Wilson, gun drawn, also stopped about 10 feet in front of Brown, the worker said.

Then Brown moved, the worker said. &#8220;He&#8217;s kind of walking back toward the cop.&#8221; He said Brown&#8217;s hands were still up.

Wilson began backing up as he fired, the worker said.

After the third shot, Brown&#8217;s hands started going down, and he moved about 25 feet toward Wilson, who kept backing away and firing. The worker said he could not tell from where he watched &#8212; about 50 feet away &#8212; if Brown&#8217;s motion toward Wilson after the shots was &#8220;a stumble to the ground&#8221; or &#8220;OK, I&#8217;m going to get you, you&#8217;re already shooting me.&#8221;


http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...tml?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

Thanks Popsicle

snipped from link,

After the third shot, Brown&#8217;s hands started going down, and he moved about 25 feet toward Wilson, who kept backing away and firing. The worker said he could not tell from where he watched &#8212; about 50 feet away &#8212; if Brown&#8217;s motion toward Wilson after the shots was &#8220;a stumble to the ground&#8221; or &#8220;OK, I&#8217;m going to get you, you&#8217;re already shooting me.&#8221;

After the third shot. The first shoot was in the car, was the second shoot to warm him to stop, which he did and proceeded with the rest of the sentence above?

 

[Lovejac]

[h=1]Workers who were witnesses provide new perspective on Michael Brown shooting[/h]About a half-hour later, the worker heard a gunshot. Then he saw Brown running away from a police car. Wilson trailed about 10 to 15 feet behind, gun in hand. About 90 feet away from the car, the worker said, Wilson fired another shot at Brown, whose back was turned.

The worker said Brown stumbled and then stopped, put his hands up, turned around and said, “OK, OK, OK, OK, OK.” He said he told investigators from the St. Louis County police and the FBI that because of the stumble, it seemed to him that Brown had been wounded.

<snip>


Wilson, gun drawn, also stopped about 10 feet in front of Brown, the worker said.

Then Brown moved, the worker said. “He’s kind of walking back toward the cop.” He said Brown’s hands were still up.

Wilson began backing up as he fired, the worker said.

After the third shot, Brown’s hands started going down, and he moved about 25 feet toward Wilson, who kept backing away and firing. The worker said he could not tell from where he watched — about 50 feet away — if Brown’s motion toward Wilson after the shots was “a stumble to the ground” or “OK, I’m going to get you, you’re already shooting me.”


http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...tml?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

I take it to mean that these are the yard guys?

Does anyone know where that map is of the shooting scene? I'd like to try see where these guys were standing, like we did with the other witnesses.

 

[SStarr33]

Here is the audio of the interview with the tree trimmer/yard guy:

http://fox2now.com/2014/08/12/witness-claims-he-saw-what-happened-when-michael-brown-was-shot/

 

[Lovejac]

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...tml?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

then he … got about 8 to 10 feet away from him

said the last shot, into the top of Brown’s head, was from about 4 feet away.

quoted James McKnight as saying Brown stumbled toward Wilson, who was 6 to 7 feet away.

So many different accounts of how far away MB was from Officer Wilson. But, they do agree that MB was advancing on Officer Wilson.

Also, regarding this:

The worker interviewed by the Post-Dispatch disputed claims by Wilson’s defenders that Brown was running full speed at the officer.

Did I miss an interview that claims MB was running full speed at Officer Wilson? :waitasec:

Or is that what is being inferred by the words 'bum rushed' because that word has different definitions depending on whether you use the urban dictionary definition or the merriam webster definition.

 

[Lovejac]

Here is the audio of the interview with the tree trimmer/yard guy:

http://fox2now.com/2014/08/12/witness-claims-he-saw-what-happened-when-michael-brown-was-shot/

He said 3 officers appeared? :waitasec: And then one officer shot MB? :waitasec:

What?

 

[Trident]

Once a shot is fired, I'm presuming in the police car, there is no going back. MB may have moved away, but stopped and turned after OW finally hit his arm. At that point, in my opinion, hands up, hands down, hands on his behind, if he kept coming toward the officer, OW had every right, and needed to keep on shooting to protect himself and anyone else MB may have encountered.

Could be wrong, but this is how I'm seeing it. It does tie a lot of things together. This hulking teen attacked OW in the police car, a shot was fired, he tried to escape, then turned when winged. Hands up or not, he kept on coming. Maybe MB didn't have a weapon, but even according to his "lyrics", his hands were his ammunition. You do not come at an officer after all this, even with your hands up. YOU FREEZE. MB did not FREEZE in place from what I'm reading, he kept on coming at the officer, and big as he was, he didn't STUMBLE that far forward, he kept on coming at OW until the final shot that laid him straight out.

God, this sounds awful. One part of my mind wonders if MB was raising holy hands to God, maybe in thanksgiving for. . .We did hear, true or not, he was going around talking about Jesus prior to the strong-arm robbery.

My opinion only

 

[Lovejac]

I swear. If those cameras are not functioning at that apartment complex, they need to get those things working PRONTO!

Eyewitness accounts are all over the place :gaah: Now there were 3 cops there when the shooting happened :thinking:

 

[popsicle]

Once a shot is fired, I'm presuming in the police car, there is no going back. MB may have moved away, but stopped and turned after OW finally hit his arm. At that point, in my opinion, hands up, hands down, hands on his behind, if he kept coming toward the officer, OW had every right, and needed to keep on shooting to protect himself and anyone else MB may have encountered.

Could be wrong, but this is how I'm seeing it. It does tie a lot of things together. This hulking teen attacked OW in the police car, a shot was fired, he tried to escape, then turned when winged. Hands up or not, he kept on coming. Maybe MB didn't have a weapon, but even according to his "lyrics", his hands were his ammunition. You do not come at an officer after all this, even with your hands up. YOU FREEZE. MB did not FREEZE in place from what I'm reading, he kept on coming at the officer, and big as he was, he didn't STUMBLE that far forward, he kept on coming at OW until the final shot that laid him straight out.

God, this sounds awful. One part of my mind wonders if MB was raising holy hands to God, maybe in thanksgiving for. . .We did hear, true or not, he was going around talking about Jesus prior to the strong-arm robbery.

My opinion only

That is pretty much what I think happened as well.

 

[Sonya610]

God, this sounds awful. One part of my mind wonders if MB was raising holy hands to God, maybe in thanksgiving for. . .We did hear, true or not, he was going around talking about Jesus prior to the strong-arm robbery.

The sudden religious talk (to strangers on the street no less) can also be a symptom of schizophrenia.

 

[Trident]

The sudden religious talk (to strangers on the street no less) can also be a symptom of schizophrenia.

It could also be a symptom of drugs - I have relatives that turn religiously delusional after taking drugs. At that point I nod sweetly and usher them to the door. Been there, many times. Of course, I'm not claiming MB had any drugs in his system other than the pot which we heard from MSM, but at this point we cannot rule anything out, schizophrenia, whatever.

I am sad a young man lost his life. I am also sad OW's life has been basically ruined. Our beloved country has turned into a total disaster, and as far as I'm concerned the AG, who is also a black man, according to his own words, is only making things worse. I wouldn't mind a black AG, but the way he put it, I wonder if he represents me, an old, white lady. I also object to the way he came across with justice for the Brown family. What about the Wilson family? This country is being torn up, and Ferguson, I'm afraid, is only the opening volley.

My opinion only

 

[TheDuchess]

Wow....this seems pretty significant....however we know MB was not shot from the back.

 

[DebinGA]

LMAO! Thanks. And what's up again with "grandma's house?!" Poor grannies! Feel like I'm trapped in Groundhog Day, yet again!

I read an earlier article where Grandma B was quoted, and her only complaint was that the very rotund Brooks found DW's handcuffs uncomfortable. Maybe one DOJ finding will be that Ferguson suspects must only be hand-cuffed in front from now on.

 

[Footwarrior]

Wow....this seems pretty significant....however we know MB was not shot from the back.

We know that Brown was not hit in his back. That does not prove that Wilson never shot at Brown while he was running away from Wilson. Nor does it mean that Brown was not hit in the arm while running away from Wilson.

 

[TheDuchess]

OK-I am analyzing what the worker has stated and quite honestly, a lot of it just doesn't make any sense. First of all, I think he has trouble with numbers:

MB spoke with his co-worker for 30 minutes??? I have a hard time believing this guy was working hard after being frustrated with a tree root and didn't mind his co-worker chatting for a half hour with some random rambling guy

His distances seem to be way off, but whatever

He counts 3 officers on the scene during the shooting???

Now actually reading his account seems inflammatory on its face, yet exculpatory in its actual text. He feels it wasn't justified, but everything he says seems to justify.

MB moving toward OW and OW retreating
Hands in the air, yet still moving toward OW
Couldn't tell if he was stumbling forward or moving toward as if to say "you're shooting me and now I'm gonna get you." Either way - that would justify the continued shots. We all know LE is trained to continue shooting until the danger is gone.

While I believe that the testimony from the worker is important and seemingly "unsullied" his opinion that it is unjustified doesn't coincide with his recollection.

People seem to forget that it isn't whether the shooting appears unnecessary to WITNESSES, but rather does it seem necessary to the LEO.

I highlighted that because it is important. When I viewed the shooting at the convenient store with the knife wielding guy, I felt immediately it was unjustified. I watched it several times and after learning a bit more about how LEO are trained, etc...and then realizing that the LEOs did not witness anything leading up to them arriving in their squad cars, I understand why they shot him.

The other thing that will be taken into account is that the 6-7 seconds of gunfire did not take place in a vacuum. It takes place within a realm of many, many factors. Trying to simplify the shooting based on 2 men standing in the middle of the street on a sunny day is not enough. MB and OW did not just suddenly appear there. The totality of the situation must be taken into account. The struggle in the car, the punch in the eye, the reaching for the gun, the gun going off in the car, the attitude of the suspect, the adrenaline pumping, the size of the suspect, possible drugs in the suspect's system, the co-suspect, etc... To act as though OW just happened upon MB in the middle of the street and they were both calmly standing in the middle of the street would make one think it would be unreasonable for OW to find MB a threat. But that just isn't the case and doesn't take into any consideration the most important thing in all of this - did OW have reasonable believe that he was in danger at that particular time - what was going on inside his head when he fired the fatal shot. And to me, there are many extenuating circumstances that would contribute to OW being in fear at that moment.

While the workers comments may cast a reasonable doubt that OW fired in self defense, it needs to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that it wasn't in self defense.

 

[TheDuchess]

We know that Brown was not hit in his back. That does not prove that Wilson never shot at Brown while he was running away from Wilson. Nor does it mean that Brown was not hit in the arm while running away from Wilson.

Good point - however, in Missouri, a police officer can shoot at a fleeing felon. If MB assaulted OW (as well as reached for his gun) then the shooting at it from behind is justified. Period.

 

[popsicle]

I read an earlier article where Grandma B was quoted, and her only complaint was that the very rotund Brooks found DW's handcuffs uncomfortable. Maybe one DOJ finding will be that Ferguson suspects must only be hand-cuffed in front from now on.

Ohh thank you! I knew I read something along those lines, but I have been doing some house maintenance and couldn't look for it... not that I stand a chance of finding it. :lol:

 

[DebinGA]

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_14a3e5f8-6c6a-5deb-92fe-87fcee622c29.html

Our varying take-aways after reading this or any article reflects the differing ways eye/ear witnesses remember a crime imo. What immediately caught my attention was the landscaper's description of MB's 30 min. conversation as "rambling". I hope MB's complete tox screen clearly suggests why MB made the bad choices he did that day.

ETA: Another important thing to me was the witness saying DW was backing up as he fired some of the shots.

 

[popsicle]

The worker quoted in the article didn't comment on the shooting being justified or not. This resident did:

Phillip Walker, 40, another Canfield Green resident, told the Post-Dispatch on Tuesday that Brown was walking at a steady pace toward Wilson, with his hands up. &#8220;Not quickly,&#8221; Walker said. &#8220;He did not rush the officer.&#8221; Walker, who is distantly related to a Post-Dispatch reporter not involved in this report, said the last shot, into the top of Brown&#8217;s head, was from about 4 feet away.

&#8220;It wasn&#8217;t justified because he didn&#8217;t pose no threat to the officer. I don&#8217;t understand why he didn&#8217;t Tase him if he deemed him to be hostile. He didn&#8217;t have no weapon on him. I was confused on why he was shooting his rounds off like that into this individual,&#8221; Walker said.