GUILTY MT - Sherry Arnold, 43, Sidney, 7 Jan 2012 - #2

[GrainneDhu]

I could guess at how the investigation could progress but typing the words isnt easy. Residue? Unless an animal is involved.

I hope this isn't too much information...

If human remains are eaten by an animal, then human DNA can be found in the animal's feces. It degrades quickly, though, so it has to be recovered quickly.

In the Robert Pickton case in Canada, some of the victims were linked to Pickton by extremely small amounts of blood found on the property. Those victims were declared presumed dead on a combination of lack of contact with loved ones (some of the women, although sex workers, stayed in regular contact with their families), known contact with Robert Pickton, the discovery of flecks of their blood on his property and Pickton's confession to an undercover policeman posing as his cellmate.

No single one of those factors would probably carry enough weight but put together, they made for legal certainty.

 

[~n/t~]

SBM

I believe they would not say she was dead based solely on confessions; I think they must have forensic evidence that links her to them, probably in or on the vehicle.

If LE is convinced she's dead, then the right thing to do is notify the family, even if they don't have her remains yet. It would be incredibly cruel to leave the family on the emotional rollercoaster of suspecting the worst and hoping for the best. Better to let them know that there is no hope so that they can begin grieving for her.

Once the family has been notified, then they almost have to notify the public. Again, it would be intolerably cruel to tell the family "your loved one is dead but don't tell anyone else." The family needs support from the community, support that is based in reality.

While it is mystifying not to know all the details at this point, I can put up with some confusion. I'm not suffering the way her family and friends are. It sure sounds like the town has rallied around the family, the details can wait.

Well let's hope you're right about the evidence. I can't imagine what her family is going through and hope I never will. I'm not sure how I would react if I was told my loved one was deceased but they have no body. Probably the same way Rodney Stafford did when LE told him his daughter was dead but no body. He couldn't accept it until he saw her.

So heartbreaking for this family.

 

[KellysGal]

Ok... here is another guess... when i was looking at the map of Parachute, I found a Vacuum Truck Service... could the two of them have been working for that company and going to pump out porta potties at any of the oil well sites? I know that is pretty way out there. But the link I had posted said that law enforcement had a truck in their possession.

 

[cluciano63]

Still, it is hard to imagine LE telling a family their loved one is dead without having her body; I can see telling them they have been TOLD she is dead...there is a big difference, IMO.

 

[KellyConQueso]

Looks like Waters got out of jail in FL on 3/26/09.

No, actually that looks like the last time he went in:

Incarceration History:
Date In-Custody Date Out-of-Custody
09/11/2002 12/21/2003
08/16/2007 03/16/2008
03/26/2009 08/27/2010

 

[davehead21]

I wonder if Michael Keith Spell (the 22 yr old arrested) has a criminal background? My guess is these two guys worked together in Williston and perhaps they did hit her while she ran alongside the road and due to Mr. Waters long line history of criminal activity they tried to hide her body. For Sherry to be declared dead, I'm guessing the LE have proof of some kind that she is dead but unable to get to her body. This has got to be so painful for this family to not KNOW if she was dead when they took her away to who knows where.

Welcome to Websleuths, Questionning Mind!!

 

[writer7]

With all of those DUI-related charges, I'm definitely leaning toward a drunken/drugged hit and run, except they also hid the body. So sad I will be glad to hear that she was not kidnapped for other purposes, however! That is certainly some relief, imho.

 

[ynotdivein]

I want more info on exactly where each of them was picked up. Might help us figure out what was going on in the aftermath. It's a long trip from Williston to Parachute no matter how you drive it, but 85 South through South Dakota, while apparently not the fastest, gets you to 90 West into Wyoming and then 25 South to Denver CO, then 70 West and back to Parachute.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Kind of OT, but it appears as though the surge in population in Montana is not very welcome by many in the state.

Nearby, youth group leader Carrie Driver doesn't mince words on her view of newcomers.

"Go back where you came from, pretty much!" Driver jokes. "Especially if you're coming from California or these other states and they buy up secondary houses that they don't even use, and then expect that they can come in and tell us how we need to run ours because they live here two months out of the year."

The state's entire population grew about 10 percent over the last decade, but those million Montanans are stretched over an area bigger than New York, Pennsylvania, Vermont, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, New Jersey and Rhode Island combined. The density is fewer than seven people per square mile.

http://www.npr.org/2012/01/15/145168891/montanas-wide-open-spaces-getting-a-bit-crowded?ft=1&f=1001

This sounds to me like she's talking about a group of people who are essentially upper middle class or wealthy who can afford to buy a summer home and live there two months out of the year. Not oil rig workers, because they stay longer than two months out of the year.

Sadly, those people don't generate as much in increased tax revenue (in most cases) as they use in increased demand for public services. They do bring in increased revenue but only for two months out of the year.

In some places (not all), the summer home people start criticising the way the permanent population does things.

For example, in one situation I know of personally, summer people in a small town in Wyoming started a huge controversy over the local rodeo (which existed a long time before those people came to town). It was only 3 or 4 summer families but they called in PETA and HSUS, which was like pouring gasoline on fire. The locals felt picked on and resentful that these people who had summer homes there because they allegedly loved the small town environment immediately tried to change the culture they had moved into.

 

[KellysGal]

With all of those DUI-related charges, I'm definitely leaning toward a drunken/drugged hit and run, except they also hid the body. So sad I will be glad to hear that she was not kidnapped for other purposes, however! That is certainly some relief, imho.

If one of them turned on the other it was the younger one turning on the older one.... my guess

 

[KellysGal]

I want more info on exactly where each of them was picked up. Might help us figure out what was going on in the aftermath. It's a long trip from Williston to Parachute no matter how you drive it, but 85 South through South Dakota, while apparently not the fastest, gets you to 90 West into Wyoming and then 25 South to Denver CO, then 70 West and back to Parachute.

I thought they got Waters in Williston and got Spell in Ralpid City.

 

[StrayKat]

Just a guess... hopefully wrong but, maybe they don't have "ALL" of the body. I also wonder if the younger one is not the one that may have called that tip in. He sure high-tailed it over 300 miles away if any of those reports are correct about him being in SD. JMHO

 

[GrainneDhu]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lames-oil-workers-teachers-disappearance.html

Well, Mr. Mayor, whomever you are referring to as "owning the night" are not the one's responsible are they? Sherry was out jogging in the morning, not at night. :innocent:

At 6:30 am, it is technically morning but at this time of year, it is still pitch black outside.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Interesting...I wonder who called in the tip?
One of the suspects? Or an eyewitness?
If it was an eyewitness it would be interesting to find out all that they saw/heard!

If it was an eyewitness to the crime itself, it doesn't make sense that they would feel the need for anonymity.

However, if it was someone who knew one or both of the perps and noticed something like fresh front end damage to the vehicle one of them was driving... well, that person may well have reasons to want to be anonymous.

 

[liltexans]

No, actually that looks like the last time he went in:

Incarceration History:
Date In-Custody Date Out-of-Custody
09/11/2002 12/21/2003
08/16/2007 03/16/2008
03/26/2009 08/27/2010

Oh, thanks. I guess I need more practice reading rap sheets and jail records. Unfortunately it looks like I may get some with this case.

 

[StrayKat]

At 6:30 am, it is technically morning but at this time of year, it is still pitch black outside.

Exactly what I was thinking... I think they may not have seen her running and hit her. At least I am hoping it wasn't all intentional, at least originally. JMO

 

[SmoothOperator]

From the article just linked above..

As far as the investigation, DiFonzo says law enforcement are searching for Sherry in the Williston area. DiFonzo says they would like to "hold out hope that Sherry might be alive, but it appears that may not be case because it's been over a week now."

This truly makes me wonder if they really do have squat regarding any evidence that indicates she is dead but rather just logically and common sense tells most that she's likely deceased due to a combination of her not being seen, nor heard from In over a week, along with IMO obviously if either of these two men even thought there was the slightest glimmer of hope that she could possibly still be alive.. For certain one or both of them would be BEGGING to take them personally to where they last saw or left her.. So, I get that it's common sense that tells them she's very very likely deceased but that's an awful big decision to tell family that with there not really being any evidence(as in circumstantial evidence that you can see with your eyes or hold in your hands) to know For absolute certain that she is deceased..

I know many think possibly amount of blood on/in the vehicle, and tho, that IMO would be the exact type evidence of which I mentioned above that IMO would support the fact of her being deceased.. However after reading this entire article I just don't know that they've even got that(blood evidence).. As he does say that it's not looking as tho she's alive due to the amount of time with no contact..just leaves me wondering if there is any real evidence yet and my concern is not for whether or not she is deceased as Ive already discussed logically and common sense tells me that indeed she's deceased therefor my concern for lack of any real evidence is of course related to wanting justice served on those involved in her death and not able to squiggle thru with just not enough evidence for a jury to find them guilty:angry: at injustice for victims amd their families!!!!!

 

[GrainneDhu]

ETA - guy has a long rap sheet in Florida:


LESTER WATERS 47 03/19/1964 FL LEAVE CRASH W/INJURY

LESTER WATERS 47 03/19/1964 FL DWLS HABITUAL TRAFFIC OFFEND FORCIBLE FELON BW

Lester Waters 47 03/19/1964 FL Leave Scene of Accident w/Injury

LESTER VANN WATERS 47 03/19/1964 FL DUI IMPAIRMENT 08 DAMAGE PROP OR PERSONS VP
LESTER VANN WATERS 47 03/19/1964 FL LSOA PERSONAL INJURY VP

SBM

Well, well, well. Looks to me like Lester has a history of hit and run, DUI plus driving with a suspended license.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Seems like Waters has a history of drugs and traffic offenses and I do believe several "leaving the scene of injury accidents"....JMO, does not look like the rap sheet of a sexual predator. My non-educated guess is that he and his buddy, maybe high, hit her with car as she was running. While still alive, they transported her somewhere else and dumped body, or buried body. There has to be some sort of information/evidence that she was still alive when they took her..hence the kidnapping charge. Otherwise, if she was killed at the scene by them hitting her with car, it would be what? Abuse of a corpse, maybe?? I don't think you can get agg kidnapping of a dead body. You can't "restrain or hinder someone from leaving" if they are dead. I wonder if one rolled on the other and said she was still alive and then died in their car or some such thing, and then they covered it up. Waters resisting arrest numerous times was always listed without violence, so its a stretch to me that he would kidnap and murder, but you never know I guess. Whole thing is one big, damn tragedy. I am glad that if they have NOT found her, they most likely will, and can bring her home and give her a proper burial.

I agree with the above.

Since he has several hit and run convictions, I wonder if he thought that grabbing the victim this time would be a "better" option.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Where is Sherry and why aren't they saying where she is? If it was an accident, why hide her body?

I don't care what his past records show, there is a reason he hid her!!! I hope and pray they find her so they can charge him for murder and get him off the roads forever!

:furious:

It doesn't look like any of those previous convictions involved the death of the person he hit. He may have freaked out, realising that with his past record, there is no way he'd get a light sentence this time.