NC - Five kids, ages 8-17, killed in murder-suicide, Pleasant Garden, 20 Nov 2011

New Posts

This is a neat article with a lot of information. According to this article an officer witnessed her and a son driving in the car, saw a puff of smoke in the car and then found two bodies in it, along with weapons. That makes it seem like she was definitely responsible for at least that shooting.
I suppose if she was taking Chantix or something like that they would have said something about it by now.
Here's the link: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...0-cheque-prevent-wife-suing-day-massacre.html
 
LizzyV said:
Yesterday's Fox 8 had article on the upcoming custody dispute for the Suttles children - (although they have an error early in the article mistakenly mentioning Lamb instead of Brian Suttles) -

"However, Holder said Brian recently asked Child Protective Services to transfer the children's custody to Brian's brother, who lives in Wake County. Holder said CPS was in the process of granting that request."

So, was she losing custody of those 2 children?
http://www.myfox8.com/news/wghp-chi...before-mass-shooting-20111123,0,4845915.story
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link and welcome to WS. This article has the most information regarding the incident and history that I've seen. So the kids were not her niece and nephew - she was their mother's best friend, no blood relation. If the father's brother was a decent, law abiding citizen, I assume he would have gained custody from her. Add that to the break up from her married man, that sent her into despair. Selfish despair though. Wanting people who didn't rightly belong to her.
 
If Holder was not a relative of the late Carrie Suttles, but only her best friend, why were Holder's sons named Smith? Suttles' three brothers (also named Smith) survived her.

I'm confused. Perhaps just a coincidence?

http://obituaries.news-record.com/o...aspx?n=carrie-beth-hunt-suttles&pid=149190426

edit: photo of Robert "Rocky" Smith with his children, including the two deceased, Robert "Dylan" Smith and Zachary Smith:

http://fandaily.info/wp-content/upl...ylan-and-Zachary-Smith-father-Rocky-Smith.jpg
 
http://www.news-record.com/content/...ized_from_ex_boyfriends_home?referer=facebook

...authorities seized guns and ammunition from Randy Lamb's home Tuesday as they investigated allegations that he was responsible for some of the shootings Sunday that injured Lamb and left four people dead and two critically injured.

On Wednesday, Col. Randy Powers of the Guilford County Sheriff's Office said people have claimed Lamb was responsible for some of the shootings. Investigators don't think that's the case, Powers said, and believe that Lamb's former girlfriend, Mary Ann Holder, acted alone.

However, Powers said the department is trying to eliminate all other people and possibilities.

The department will use forensic tests on the weapons and DNA tests to confirm investigators' theory that Holder was the lone shooter, Powers said.

"At this time, he's not a suspect," Powers said Wednesday afternoon of Lamb. "We're just not leaving any stones unturned."
 
JoeFromLB said:
If Holder was not a relative of the late Carrie Suttles, but only her best friend, why were Holder's sons named Smith? Suttles' three brothers (also named Smith) survived her.

I'm confused. Perhaps just a coincidence?

http://obituaries.news-record.com/o...aspx?n=carrie-beth-hunt-suttles&pid=149190426

edit: photo of Robert "Rocky" Smith with his children, including the two deceased, Robert "Dylan" Smith and Zachary Smith:

http://fandaily.info/wp-content/upl...ylan-and-Zachary-Smith-father-Rocky-Smith.jpg
Click to expand...

I'm confused too since some of the original articles said Holder was the deceased mother's SIL....but the Fox8 link above and copy of her custody complaint shows she is the best friend...

http://media.trb.com/media/acrobat/2011-11/324181540-23161358.pdf
 
Reader said:
I'm confused too since some of the original articles said Holder was the deceased mother's SIL....but the Fox8 link above and copy of her custody complaint shows she is the best friend...

http://media.trb.com/media/acrobat/2011-11/324181540-23161358.pdf
Click to expand...

She has to be the SIL. Suttles was survived by a brother, "Robert Smith", and the father of Holder's two sons is Robert Smith.

It would have to be quite the coincidence in the names if she's not related.
 
http://www.news-record.com/content/...ized_from_ex_boyfriends_home?referer=facebook

Powers (Col. Randy Powers of the Guilford County Sheriff's Office) said investigators are looking at every facet of the case to determine if any other crimes were committed, including the $10,000 check Holder gave Randy Lamb the day before the shootings.

"We intend to leave nothing uncovered," Powers said.

According to the search warrant, Lamb said in an interview at the hospital that he had a handgun when he was shot. It's not known whether he displayed or fired the weapon during the confrontation with Holder, according to the warrant.

The warrant says while searching for electronics, officers saw several other handguns inside a gun safe in the bedroom of residence. They include:

• A Smith & Wesson M&P pistol in holster with holster and loaded magazine containing bullets.

• A Bersa semi-automatic pistol, .83-caliber, with loaded magazine and holster.

• A Smith & Wesson gun case containing grips and one magazine with instruction book.

Authorities also found ammunition, including bullets and magazines.

Officers also took several cameras, laptops and MP3 players. They also found a wooden box with marijuana residue in Lamb's master bedroom.
 
Ricky Suttles has died:

http://www.digtriad.com/news/articl...tim-Thursday-Of-The-Pleasant-Garden-Shootings

Greensboro, NC -- Richard "Ricky" Suttles, the only surviving child of the shootings that occurred in Pleasant Garden on Sunday, was pronounced brain dead Thursday morning at Moses Cone Hospital in Greensboro.

Members of the family confirmed to News 2 that Ricky, 17, was pronounced brain dead by doctors at the hospital.

The family is now preparing for his funeral, as well as the funeral of the four other children who were killed during the shootings.
 
There is not a SINGLE witness that saw Holder shoot any of the kids, Randall Lamb OR herself. All this comes down to Randall Lambs testimony. Is he lying?
Two notes are found ‘taking responsibility’? – why would Holder assume there would be any doubt about who committed the crimes? Are the notes definitely in her handwriting? Why two notes? Where were they found?
Did detectives test Randall Lambs hands for gunpowder residue – or is that the reason he drove home rather than hospital, to wash his hands?
Can Lamb’s gunshot wounds indicate the distance he was shot from? If point blank, he could have shot himself?
Randall Scott is only shot in the shoulder – why not in the head like the others? Wouldn’t her ex boyfriend and his wife be bigger targets than her children and family? Did he shoot himself to make it look like he was a victim? He said Holder pulled the gun on him at 8.52am – why such a specific time – more detail than necessary is often provided by people who are lying.
Kids were specifically shot in head to ensure they were killed and not just injured, as if they were witnesses to something and had to be kept quiet.
The kids weren’t his – so Holder was not getting back at him by killing them. Her son’s girlfriend was shot multiple times - why was she included in the family massacre unless to keep her quiet. If it was Holder who shot the kids why would she care that Makayla witnessed it? She supposedly took responsibility for the killings in her notes. Whoever shot Makayla wanted her to remain silent.
Why was her son sitting in the back seat of the SUV? This could suggest someone was in the front passenger seat when he was picked up.

WHAT IF:
The Lamb’s want Holder out of their lives, but want money from her first. They get her to give them $10K by threatening an alienation of affection lawsuit against her. Once they get the check from Holder they take the opportunity to make it look like this was the last straw for her, and make it look like she’d go crazy killing her family and herself.
BUT why, if someone was planning to kill their family and themselves would they give a check to the ex boyfriend’s wife to prevent them from filing a law suit against them??
Possible scenario:
Randall goes to Holder’s house the night after he gets the check, and shoots the kids in their beds. He plans to shoot Mary Ann Holder after forcing her to write letters taking responsibility, but realizes one of her kids isn’t home. Zach is staying at a friend’s house. If he is not killed too, he could pinpoint Randall Lamb as a suspect, as well as reveal his mothers state of mind in the days leading up to the killings. Maybe she was discussing what they would have for Thanksgiving dinner etc. Maybe she shared with her kids that she was threatened by the Lambs etc.
He forces Mary Ann to call Zach in the morning to arrange to pick him up (she called him on her son’s girlfriend, Makayla’s phone – why?). Randall rides with her in the SUV to pick up Zach. Zach sits in the back seat – perhaps he’s used to Randall being with his Mom. I read somewhere that 45 mins after being picked up, he texted his best friend to thank him and his family for having him stay over.
Then the SUV is found near their home with Zach shot in the backseat and Mary Ann shot in the driver’s seat with a gun in her lap. Another gun is also found in the car – where was it? Did Randall carry two guns to be able to have one aimed at MAH and one aimed at Zach at the same time? Why would she carry two guns?
An officer said he saw a puff of smoke come from the car as he approached, but didn’t mention he heard a gun shot. Was there a silencer on the gun? Where is the video from his car that was taken as he approached the SUV? What if the windows were down slightly and the smoke gathered in the car was blown through by a breeze coincidentally as the officer approached?
Jennifer Lamb said on the 911 call she was ‘dead asleep’ when her husband left for work on Sunday morning?!
Could she have instigated this, and been an accomplice with her husband, driving behind him as he forced MAH to drive her SUV? Then driving him home (after shooting him in the shoulder?)
 
I'm trying to follow this strange and tragic case, but the errors in the reporting are driving me batty.

It's hard enough to try to keep all the relationships straight without reporters mixing folks up (like in this article: http://www.myfox8.com/news/wghp-chi...before-mass-shooting-20111123,0,4845915.story ). 'Lamb' was not seeking custody of the best-friend-or-sister-in-law's kids, was she?

I do hope we hear more and get accurate information. Since the shooting involves a minimum of 3-4 locations, perhaps witnesses can clear up what must have happened. I hope so!

eta: I don't live very far from this case, myself
 
Exactly, something smells rotten. This is a terrible tragedy! Listen to the 911 call from his WIFE. She is stalling. This all doesn't add up to make any sense at all.
 
Your right, it makes no sense. If she was so enraged by the lover and his wife, she goes ahead and gives them the 10K and THEN kills her kids and herself? All shot in the head, but he gets off with a flesh wound in the shoulder. I call BS on this one. Those poor innocent children were massacred because of these adults stupidity.
 
From today's Greensboro News and Record:

Investigators gathered significant amounts of forensic evidence that will take time to examine, Powers said.

“We want to be completely sure,” Powers said. “We have a pretty good idea of what happened, but we want to make certain we’re right.”

Investigators plan to compile a final report summing up their conclusions when the investigation is complete, but it remains to be seen how much of those findings will be released to the public, Powers said.
http://www.news-record.com/content/2011/11/25/article/final_teenage_victim_dies

I am not one of the people that think Lamb did it, I'm not sure why people want to believe it's him (because he's a man, because of her cute pixie looks?) Yes, he's guilty of being a crappy husband and a cheat, but I think he didn't die because he wasn't sleeping like the kids and he was able to take off running. They either found evidence of a shooting at that parking lot or they didn't. They know what time Zach was picked up from the sleepover, which pinpoints if it occurred after the Lamb 911 call.

She was a woman who was seeing a married man for some time, and if it's true, she was also a woman who tried to run the wife off the road in the past as well as stalking her in malls, etc. There was ugliness on both sides. There are people who supposedly knew her well who said the affair was "old news, 3 years ago" but other info states it recently ended. Maybe no one really knew her truly well.

My feeling is that she was overwhelmed and if other press quotes were correct, she also stood to lose custody of the Suttles kids to their blood uncle.

It sickens me... there is such selfishness and arrogance in all of it...It's a horrible, heartbreaking crime, that these young lives were snuffed out - no one has the right to have to do that to another human being.
 
LizzyV said:
From today's Greensboro News and Record:

Investigators gathered significant amounts of forensic evidence that will take time to examine, Powers said.

“We want to be completely sure,” Powers said. “We have a pretty good idea of what happened, but we want to make certain we’re right.”

Investigators plan to compile a final report summing up their conclusions when the investigation is complete, but it remains to be seen how much of those findings will be released to the public, Powers said.
http://www.news-record.com/content/2011/11/25/article/final_teenage_victim_dies

I am not one of the people that think Lamb did it, I'm not sure why people want to believe it's him (because he's a man, because of her cute pixie looks?) Yes, he's guilty of being a crappy husband and a cheat, but I think he didn't die because he wasn't sleeping like the kids and he was able to take off running. They either found evidence of a shooting at that parking lot or they didn't. They know what time Zach was picked up from the sleepover, which pinpoints if it occurred after the Lamb 911 call.

She was a woman who was seeing a married man for some time, and if it's true, she was also a woman who tried to run the wife off the road in the past as well as stalking her in malls, etc. There was ugliness on both sides. There are people who supposedly knew her well who said the affair was "old news, 3 years ago" but other info states it recently ended. Maybe no one really knew her truly well.

My feeling is that she was overwhelmed and if other press quotes were correct, she also stood to lose custody of the Suttles kids to their blood uncle.

It sickens me... there is such selfishness and arrogance in all of it...It's a horrible, heartbreaking crime, that these young lives were snuffed out - no one has the right to have to do that to another human being.[/QUOTEI

I agree completely! I never said I thought he was responsible for their deaths. It takes two to cheat. Anyone who would continue their affair and drag it out that long, has some serious emotional issues. But, there are too many weird actions that just don't add up. Maybe she just snapped and really did take those innocent lives. Or maybe someone isn't telling the complete truth. I am very glad that the law enforcement in the area are making sure that no stone is left un-turned. Instead of just assuming they know everything. I hope those poor kids and their families get some peace. I will never EVER understand how a parent can think that taking their child along with them down their own suicidal path is the best for the child. But then again, I am not crazy. These people obviously had issues much deeper than their families really knew.
Click to expand...
 
I agree completely! I never said I thought he was responsible for their deaths. It takes two to cheat. Anyone who would continue their affair and drag it out that long, has some serious emotional issues. But, there are too many weird actions that just don't add up. Maybe she just snapped and really did take those innocent lives. Or maybe someone isn't telling the complete truth. I am very glad that the law enforcement in the area are making sure that no stone is left un-turned. Instead of just assuming they know everything. I hope those poor kids and their families get some peace. I will never EVER understand how a parent can think that taking their child along with them down their own suicidal path is the best for the child. But then again, I am not crazy. These people obviously had issues much deeper than their families really knew.
 
Another angry vengeful self centered person who has brought nothing but devastation on those who deserved none of it. Innocent life lost because she was pizzed.:furious:

I do not approve of extra-marital affairs but Mary Ann Holder knew this man was married and wasnt blind sided by any means. He should not have had an affair with her but in the same token she should not have gone with a married man. It takes two. Another obsessed woman who couldn't get on with her life and couldn't take 'no more' for an answer

IMO, she meant to kill her ex-lover who had spurned her who returned to reconcile with his wife. She was just a lousy shot. She shot at him several times and lucky for him only one hit him in the shoulder. He may be a cad but he sure didn't kill anyone. She seems to have a fatal attraction and just wouldn't let go even when told to do so.

However; the coward she was she made sure she shot these innocent children in the head. Imo, she did this because she saw all the children except her son's girlfriend as her possessions which in her evil mind gave her the right to take them out of this life.:furious: Often these kind of female murderers give themselves way too much weight and arrogantly think the children cant survive without them when in truth they can with therapy, love, and support even if she had killed herself only. It is the old 'I brought you into this world and I can take you out" and imo she felt her niece and nephew belonged to her too.

Her son's girlfriend was in the wrong place at the wrong time and she lost her life because of it.

Another wretched self centered individual who felt entitled to be Judge, Jury and Executioner.

I have absolutely no sympathy for her at all.

I also don't believe she 'snapped' either. In fact I think that is used way too loosely when a female murders. I think she had thought about this for awhile and then carried out her dastardly deeds just like she had planned to do.

I have nothing but sympathy for the children who lost their lives and their families who are left behind to endure all the pain this one woman has caused.
 
LizzyV said:
Excellent article today in Greensboro News and Record- some more details about her life and a pretty good outline of the morning timeline.

http://www.news-record.com/content/2011/11/26/article/answers_elusive_in_rampage
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link. Still confused as to her relationship with the Suttles' kids mother. This article says former sister-in-law, but doesn't tell how (who married and divorced whom?). Another article posted here says they were best friends not related. Hmmm.. I guess it doesn't matter at the end of the day. Regardless, she was the person who was supposed to protect them and she failed. Horribly.
 
Here's the obituary from Carrie Suttles
http://obituaries.news-record.com/o...aspx?n=carrie-beth-hunt-suttles&pid=149190426

"Carrie is survived by her three children;....three brothers, Robert Smith, Kenneth Smith, Daniel Smith; and many aunts, uncles, cousins, nephews and nieces.

So, we know Robert “Rocky” Smith was the father of Holder's children, making Carrie Robert's sister and unrelated to Mary Ann.

Hard to believe this all just happened a week ago....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 88 more.
Total: 4,431 (members: 89, guests: 4,342)

Online statistics

Members online
89
Guests online
4,342
Total visitors
4,431
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
592,488
Messages
17,969,710
Members
228,788
Latest member
Soccergirl500
Back
Top