New Book on JonBenet coming soon

[tipper]

There are no published interviews with Patsy's father - but thanks to jameson, there is a published interview with Patsy where she was asked whether she herself had been abused. (was she also asked about her sisters?) She became very childlike in her responses to those questions as I recall.

If anyone had asked me if I had been abused by my father I wouldn't have acted like a little girl giving quiet little "no" answers. I would have been quite indignant in saying "Certainly not - my father was a decent man".

Do you remember which interview that was? I looked but couldn't find it although the line of questioning rings a distant bell.

If it were true it seems odd that, unless even as an adult she viewed this abuse as a good thing, they would use Patsy's father as a babysitter on a regular basis.

 

[Jayelles]

Do you remember which interview that was? I looked but couldn't find it although the line of questioning rings a distant bell.

If it were true it seems odd that, unless even as an adult she viewed this abuse as a good thing, they would use Patsy's father as a babysitter on a regular basis.

P 261 of JBRTPF.

Also, I was right - Patsy WAS asked about her sisters. Her replies to the question about her sisters was "not to my knowledge".

The film of this was shown - it used to be online at both CBS and CTV.

Here;-

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/01/48hours/main523892.shtml

And here:-

http://www.courttv.com/news/ramsey/

The CTV link doesn't seem to have it there any more. The CBS link takes you to a page where you can search for videaos and I don't have time to look right now.

I'm surprised that you have only a distant memory of this because it was discussed quite a bit at the time and you have such a good memory for details.

This is one of these situations where it is important to see the video rather than read a transcript. When we read the transcript, we wouldn't think Patsy's replies to the questions were noteworthy. It was her body language which made this particular line of questioning newsworthy. She replied to the questions in a hesitating manner in a small, child-like voice.

Edited to add:-

Regarding Grampa babysitting - What would Patsy give as her reason for not wanting her father to babysit? Wouldn't that raise a red flag in a "perfect family"?

 

[sissi]

I do know women who were molested , one by her biological father, and I can assure you, this past is always with them, always! To be honest, I find the obsessive monitoring and questioning of their own children to be over the edge, outside the realm of healthy. Patsy would never have allowed a "daddymom" to watch her child if she had fears ,or was dealing with a past of her own. There is nothing to indicate ,in her behavior ,that she was a victim, as there is nothing to indicate Jonbenet was a victim before the night of her murder. Those health reports were well within normal for a girl child, especially one that spent a great deal of time on antibiotics.

 

[tipper]

P 261 of JBRTPF.

Also, I was right - Patsy WAS asked about her sisters. Her replies to the question about her sisters was "not to my knowledge".

The film of this was shown - it used to be online at both CBS and CTV.

Here;-

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/01/48hours/main523892.shtml

And here:-

http://www.courttv.com/news/ramsey/

The CTV link doesn't seem to have it there any more. The CBS link takes you to a page where you can search for videaos and I don't have time to look right now.

I'm surprised that you have only a distant memory of this because it was discussed quite a bit at the time and you have such a good memory for details.

This is one of these situations where it is important to see the video rather than read a transcript. When we read the transcript, we wouldn't think Patsy's replies to the questions were noteworthy. It was her body language which made this particular line of questioning newsworthy. She replied to the questions in a hesitating manner in a small, child-like voice.

Edited to add:-

Regarding Grampa babysitting - What would Patsy give as her reason for not wanting her father to babysit? Wouldn't that raise a red flag in a "perfect family"?

Thank you for the links. I'm sorry the CTV one is gone as the CBS video is on pineapple, fibers, and something else I've already forgotten. I'm no good with audio input. The written word seems to lodge in my head fairly well but what comes in my ears just blows around in the empty places and is hard to pin down.


19 TOM HANEY: Have you ever suffered
20 any physical abuse?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Absolutely not.
22 TOM HANEY: In childhood, you know,
23 dating, your adult life?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: (NO AUDIBLE
25 RESPONSE).
0586
1 TOM HANEY: How about sexual abuse?
2 PATSY RAMSEY: (NO AUDIBLE
3 RESPONSE).
4 TOM HANEY: How about anybody in
5 your family ever suffered any physical abuse?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Not to my
7 knowledge.
8 TOM HANEY: Your sisters?
9 PATSY RAMSEY: Not to my
10 knowledge.
11 TOM HANEY: Sexual abuse, have they
12 ever confided in you that--
13 PATSY RAMSEY: No. No. What's
14 this got to do with JonBenet?
15 TOM HANEY: What it has to do with
16 first of all, is, whether or not you have ever
17 really discussed things like this with people or
18 somebody has confided in you?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
20 TOM HANEY: A friend . And I
21 mentioned your sisters, you have two, correct?
22 What was your relationship with them growing up?
23 PATSY RAMSEY: Very close.
24 TOM HANEY: How -- what are your
25 ages, how close are you?
0587
1 PATSY RAMSEY: I am two and a half
2 years older than my next sister and -
3 TOM HANEY: Which is?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Pam.
5 TOM HANEY: And--
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Seven years older
7 than Paulette.
8 TOM HANEY: Okay. But you guys
9 were all raised together?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.
11 TOM HANEY: Spend a lot of time
12 together?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.
14 TOM HANEY: Were all of you
15 involved in pageants at an early age?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
17 TOM HANEY: Okay. Were the other
18 two?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Pam was, Ms. West 20 Virginia two years after I was, or three.
21 Paulette was not.
22 TOM HANEY: Did Paulette have any
23 problem with pageants or object to 'em or just--
24 PATSY RAMSEY: She was a swimmer.
25 TOM HANEY: Okay, so that just
0588
1 wasn't her thing?
2 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
3 TOM HANEY: In growing up, were all
4 of you treated pretty much the same?
5 PATSY RAMSEY: As far as I could
6 tell.
7 TOM HANEY: No favorite? Youngest,
8 oldest?
9 PATSY RAMSEY: Not from my
10 perspective, no.
11 TOM HANEY: And growing up, what
12 was your socio-economic status?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: We lived in a very
14 nice neighborhood, drove nice new cars. I
15 thought we had everything. You know, I don't --
16 I have never --
17 TOM HANEY: Never wanted for
18 things?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Never.
20 TOM HANEY: Okay, able to travel
21 and--
22 PATSY RAMSEY: Take vacations.
23 TOM HANEY: Go out?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: Whatever.

Added: I watched the 3 videos CBS offered. It's possible they have more buried somewhere.

If you father had molested you and you didn't want him unsupervised around your kids - you wouldn't have to shout it from the rooftops. People deal with that situation every day and don't take up sky-writing to explain why.

 

[IrishMist]

Just wanted to add my two cents here--

I was a counselor at our county sexual assault recovery assistance center for almost two years... I also helped facilitate a group for mothers whose daughters had been molested.

All I can tell you is this. Whether Patsy let her father baby sit or not is NOT an indicator of previous abuse. We would have to know a heck of alot more information, and I doubt there's any way any of us will ever know.

The reactions to sexual abuse are varied. In ways that might be surprising to someone who has not been abused. (Hell, even sometimes to someone that has!) Being promiscuous is very common, but then again, so is becoming straight as an arrow- almost nun-like.

Adult survivors have quite often left their daughters (and sons, I'm sure, but I'm not familiar with males and sexual abuse) with their own abusers. They rationalize it, and subconsciously put their daughters in the same position they themselves were once in... it's one of the symptoms that indicate that they haven't fully dealt with the abuse. Or, they had dealt with it at a previous time in their life, but along with life changes come unforseen symptoms. In other words, maybe you dealt with it as a teen, but then in young adulthood you look at life a bit differently. And sometimes different symptoms might manifest. I'm trying to be clear, and have a feeling I'm mucking it up.

Anyway, the whole point of this post was to caution folks about making decisions based on what a survivor would or wouldn't do.

 

[Eagle1]

Title was meant to say "Staging Pointing TO Various Ramseys."

Quoting K777Angel, with whom I totally agree..."By the way - it was the FBI who determined that this crime was indeed STAGED. Not only that, but they went on to state that there was 'staging WITHIN the staging'... "


I've always said JonBenet was evidently molested at the party on the 23rd, was found crying, and evidently tried to make a 911 call because none of the adults, not even her parents, seemed to care, as JonBenet knew they should. Question is, why did they not seem to care? Drinking? Influential person did it? One of FW's guests? What's possible?

I've always said that the phone was evidently grabbed from her, but not in time to keep police from responding. S. Stine turned away police at the door if I remember correctly, or, somehow FW gave an alibi that he'd dialed 911 by mistake because his partying (it was later found out by several astute WS'ers) mother was in a hospital.

Staging was made to point to John Andrew, as well as to John himself. Not to Patsy or Burke. As if the perp had nothing against them, and only thought of making it look like an adult male had done it. So, might that mean it was an adult male, or not necessarily so?

BTW, I don't want to distract us much from case, but had my first laser eye surgery yesterday for diabetic retinopathy, piece of cake. I'll be having the other eye done soon. Just had to share. If anyone else needs it don't fear. I just saw pretty designs with that eye for one day, back to normal and rather excited. Thanks for tolerating the small interruption. You guys are great.

 

[tipper]

Just wanted to add my two cents here--

I was a counselor at our county sexual assault recovery assistance center for almost two years... I also helped facilitate a group for mothers whose daughters had been molested.

All I can tell you is this. Whether Patsy let her father baby sit or not is NOT an indicator of previous abuse. We would have to know a heck of alot more information, and I doubt there's any way any of us will ever know.

The reactions to sexual abuse are varied. In ways that might be surprising to someone who has not been abused. (Hell, even sometimes to someone that has!) Being promiscuous is very common, but then again, so is becoming straight as an arrow- almost nun-like.

Adult survivors have quite often left their daughters (and sons, I'm sure, but I'm not familiar with males and sexual abuse) with their own abusers. They rationalize it, and subconsciously put their daughters in the same position they themselves were once in... it's one of the symptoms that indicate that they haven't fully dealt with the abuse. Or, they had dealt with it at a previous time in their life, but along with life changes come unforseen symptoms. In other words, maybe you dealt with it as a teen, but then in young adulthood you look at life a bit differently. And sometimes different symptoms might manifest. I'm trying to be clear, and have a feeling I'm mucking it up.

Anyway, the whole point of this post was to caution folks about making decisions based on what a survivor would or wouldn't do.

Excellent points. I expect you would also caution against about jumping to conclusions as to whether one is or is not a survivor.

Congratulations Eagle1 on the surgery. Glad to hear it went well.

 

[tipper]

Who cares how you would answer. What does that prove?

Everyone uses their own experiences to make judgements. This is why it's important to have experienced detctives on a case. They have seen a number of people in this situation and have a breadth of experience from which to draw their conclusions.

I think that is why John Walsh doesn't criticize the Ramseys the way Marc Klaas does. As Walsh said to Klaas on LKL (approx) "Everyone behaves differently under these circumstances."

 

[BeeBee]

I don't want to stir up trouble.

I want justice for JBR and no one's going to find it by worrying about themselves and what they would do.

Most posters here probably would not murder a 6 year old girl either.

People here are also allowed to have their own personal opinions on the case as well as a theory . Saying what a person might do in any particular case is done frequently .

 

[Rupert]

Perhaps Lawrence Smith is grandstanding, but hey, eveyone needs to make a buck. I see he is a professional psychologist and I would be interested to see how he discounts the alternate intruder theorys. He obviously comes to the same conclusion as Steve Thomas. I still have an open mind to that, but wonder how the head bash caused very little bleeding unless it came after the strangling. I also wonder how the parents could come up with the kidnap movie crime references, unless someone guided them over the phone.

As a sleuther, I enjoy discovering the answers to mysteries within mysteries. I would like to see how Mr.Smith logically pares down the alternate intruder theories.

I will say it again. LHP supported the Steve Thomas theory and she worked in the house. Sure she was trying to make a buck too, but it is clear to me that she was either lying or telling the truth. If she was lying, it wasn't just to make a buck. Her story seems consistent with Detective Thomas and this new author.

Still, I keep an open eye for the intruder and pray to God that it doesn't have anything to do with inside the family.

 

[IrishMist]

Excellent points. I expect you would also caution against about jumping to conclusions as to whether one is or is not a survivor.

Yes, Tipper, and I should have added that.

Congratulations Eagle1 on the surgery. Glad to hear it went well.

Ditto! Hope the next one goes equally as well, Eagle.

 

[Zman]

People here are also allowed to have their own personal opinions on the case as well as a theory . Saying what a person might do in any particular case is done frequently .

Yes, but one should not draw conclusions or state opinions as facts or use it as proof of catching someone in a lie.

 

[Eagle1]

Thanks, Tipper and IrishMist.

 

[BeeBee]

If anyone had asked me if I had been abused by my father I wouldn't have acted like a little girl giving quiet little "no" answers. I would have been quite indignant in saying "Certainly not - my father was a decent man".

Who cares how you would answer. What does that prove?

..............................................................................................



This answer (that was deleted by the way) is a smart assed reply. Jayelles wasn't stating anything as "fact" except how she/he would speak for themselves. Nor is there anything there that I see where he/she is trying to catch anyone in a lie. So, I'll say this nicely. Back off. And, try and change the attitude a little. This is a crime/message/opinion board. Jayelles had an opinion as to how he/she would answer in a certain situation.

 

[Zman]

If anyone had asked me if I had been abused by my father I wouldn't have acted like a little girl giving quiet little "no" answers. I would have been quite indignant in saying "Certainly not - my father was a decent man".

Who cares how you would answer. What does that prove?

..............................................................................................



This answer (that was deleted by the way) is a smart assed reply. Jayelles wasn't stating anything as "fact" except how she/he would speak for themselves. Nor is there anything there that I see where he/she is trying to catch anyone in a lie. So, I'll say this nicely. Back off. And, try and change the attitude a little. This is a crime/message/opinion board. Jayelles had an opinion as to how he/she would answer in a certain situation.

I answer is not meant to be "smart assed" at all. But I guess I can see how it could be taken that way.
I respectfully disagree.
In my opinion Jayelles is implying PR's "quiet little "no" answers" are not truthful and only using her own "supposed response" as evidence, and untruthful = a lie.

 

[sharpar]

I havent read the book by dr Smith but my son and I were his patients a few years ago. He is brilliant and he knows his stuff. He had my family dymanics pegged in nothing flat.
We saw him for about 3 months as I recall. I am fine and son is fine . I will have to get this and read it. Its so heartbreaking, that little girl deserved better. The beauty pagent stuff just seemed so over the top, it was distrubing. It bothers me that someone killed this little girl and is getting away with it.

 

[deanws]

I havent read the book by dr Smith but my son and I were his patients a few years ago. He is brilliant and he knows his stuff. He had my family dymanics pegged in nothing flat.
We saw him for about 3 months as I recall. I am fine and son is fine . I will have to get this and read it. Its so heartbreaking, that little girl deserved better. The beauty pagent stuff just seemed so over the top, it was distrubing. It bothers me that someone killed this little girl and is getting away with it.

I know. :furious:

 

[Eagle1]

Thanks for sharing with us that you personally know this author, a Dr. Phil (?) professionally. Your family dynamic was probably one of those classic text-book situations, and I'm very glad you were helped.

I'll probably inquire at my LIBRARY, if they're going to have the book and reserve the first copy to make sure I like it before thinking of buying for my collection, folks.

BTW, has Dr. Phil ever voiced any opinion about the JonBenet case? Does he write books too? Personally I think someone they met in Texas may be a real original psych case, despite the saying there's "Nothing New Under the Sun", more of an extreme case, I probably should say, and also that FW's two California visitors who belonged to a Kali ("Goddess of DEATH") cult may be connected, may at least have known this was going to happen. It seems too much of a coincidence to really be coincidence, their belonging to apparently a death cult. Maybe some of the others did too (?)

 

[narlacat]

And that is why this case is so puzzling. There are so many coincidences it's not funny.
I mean what about the Mc Christmas's? There's two right there with one lot of suspects. Janet Mc Christmas writes a play based on a novel about a little girl getting tortured and murdered in a basement....that's a pretty big coincidence.
The Mc Christmas's own daughter was kidnapped on the same day that JonBenet died, although quite some years earlier....that's another huge coincidence too.
You have to wonder about coincidences.....
I know Santa Bill and his wife didn't do it.....but only because I can't figure out why the Ramsey's would cover for them. The Ramsey's are covering for SOMEONE and I cant think of a good enough reason for the Ramsey's to have covered for the Mc Christmas's.

 

[mjak]

Why does this Author not spell JonBenet's name correctly? If this actually is
a mystake on his part and his editors part then how can anyone read his book and believe anything he says has any merit?? I am openminded and don't shut the door on input from any source without much research. However, this spelling issue would be reason enough for me to not even open the door on his book. However of course my sleuthing curiostiy would override and of course I will read the book!!

mjak