New Zealand - Christchurch Mosque shooting, dead & injured reported, 15 March 2019

Discussion in 'Rampage Killings and Terrorist Attacks' started by north_west, Mar 14, 2019.

  1. sunnynz

    sunnynz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,018
    Likes Received:
    1,081
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Not at all, over 70% of kiwis have a passport and we have a lot of immigrants/expats/whatever you want to call them living here.

    Overseas travel is common and embraced.
     
    JudgeJudi, mrjitty, The 13th and 9 others like this.
  2. human

    human Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    22,726
    Likes Received:
    23,175
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Lol.certain papers are not allowed at Presidential press conferences, for imstance. On and on
     
  3. glamourkitty1922

    glamourkitty1922 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,444
    Likes Received:
    3,192
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Those papers are not censored and when Obama tried to oust Fox News, other news agencies made him back down. It's been tried by every president and the media wins. The US govt cannot forbid anyone from printing what they want.
     
  4. sunnynz

    sunnynz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,018
    Likes Received:
    1,081
    Trophy Points:
    113
    [QUOTE="glamourkitty1922, post: 14921519, member: 91422]We are not 45 except due to bias on the page reporting it. What is censored in our press? Nothing.[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, must just be like a totally made up index. Not internally recognised at all.

    My mistake.
     
  5. CSIDreamer

    CSIDreamer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,429
    Likes Received:
    4,976
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think it already has. These countries are completely different. If you don't want to live in New Zealand, then don't. Same with any other country.

    The issue is the gunman and the victims.
     
    JudgeJudi, LaborDayRN, human and 7 others like this.
  6. BayouBelle_LA

    BayouBelle_LA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,024
    Likes Received:
    5,977
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't think it's totally made up and as a US citizen, I'll admit we have some room for improvement in that regard.

    It doesn't feel right to continuously knock the laws and wishes of NZ. NZ is not the US and they have a different way of doing things. I respect their autonomy.
     
    Hraefn, LaborDayRN, human and 9 others like this.
  7. zencompass

    zencompass May today be the day. Justice for Abby and Libby.

    Messages:
    4,498
    Likes Received:
    21,162
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I appreciate the discussion about not wanting censorship and the protection of freedom of speech and I agree with you.

    Are the lines which cross censorship and free press blurred when it comes to incitement of hate and encouragement of violence?

    How do we treat groups of people who gather in a public place to blare out their messages of hate or inciting violence?

    What if these messages were blared out with a megaphone at our kids' parks as opposed to the kids reading it on the internet?

    How is it different from the extreme hateful and violent posts on social media?

    Law enforcement does monitor some of the chatrooms that draw individuals because of the extreme views. What would a spectrum (of possible to probable terrorists) look like in order for the police to take action against a poster there, even by surveillance?

    Where is the "line drawn" and how is it drawn and what are your opinions as to what "crosses the line" when it comes to hate/violent/inciting posts?
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019
  8. squid

    squid Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    498
    Likes Received:
    2,688
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Reporters without Borders does not rank freedom of speech according to the US legal definition. They probably have a definition somewhere but I could not find it right offhand.

    You guys are talking apples and oranges.
     
  9. cobalt sky

    cobalt sky Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    605
    Likes Received:
    1,602
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Congrats on #8 NZ!

    I'm actually not surprised that the US is 45th. There are many facets to "freedom of press". Fair, unbiased, responsible reporting AFTER taking the time to research and make sure your facts are straight is far more important to me than the media having the ability to publish whatever they want. When this is lacking, by default you have censorship IMO. I could write pages and pages about this topic but this is not the appropriate thread so I will leave it at that. :p

    As for relevance to WS, I can't tell you how many times I have become angry and/or frustrated at MSM and their poor and even sometimes irresponsible reporting on the cases we follow here. :mad:
     
  10. Judith Sleuth

    Judith Sleuth Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    390
    Trophy Points:
    53
    The standards sound pretty universal, afaict. Does the NZ shooter blame the media in his rants? Honest question. I’ve been out of the loop today. Sorry if I’ve missed it in the thread. I’m still catching up. ~JS

    “The Index ranks 180 countries and regions according to the level of freedom available to journalists. It is a snapshot of the media freedom situation based on an evaluation of pluralism, independence of the media, quality of legislative framework and safety of journalists in each country and region. It does not rank public policies even if governments obviously have a major impact on their country’s ranking. Nor is it an indicator of the quality of journalismin each country or region.”

    “The degree of freedom available to journalists in 180 countries and regions is determined by pooling the responses of experts to a questionnaire devised by RSF. This qualitative analysis is combined with quantitative data on abuses and acts of violence against journalists during the period evaluated. The criteria used in the questionnaire are pluralism, media independence, media environment and self-censorship, legislative framework, transparency, and the quality of the infrastructure that supports the production of news and information. Click here for more information.”

    The World Press Freedom Index | Reporters without borders
     
    sunnynz and human like this.
  11. cobalt sky

    cobalt sky Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    605
    Likes Received:
    1,602
    Trophy Points:
    93
    BBM. I can't speak for NZ or anywhere else but here in the US it is very, very, VERY complicated. And I don't even know where to start with this. What is hate? What is racism? What is bigotry? And who decides? One would think that the answers should be very clear. But it is no longer clear. Especially since words associated with these things have been hijacked and weaponized for inappropriate and sometimes nefarious purposes and also to further agendas as well as to silence people that have differing thoughts. So yeah, there's a lot to say about this but again, not the right place so I'll leave it at that for now. All imo.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019
    scmom, Elley Mae, mickey2942 and 2 others like this.
  12. Inthedetails

    Inthedetails Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    15,555
    Likes Received:
    50,378
    Trophy Points:
    113
    (I don't want to interupt the thread but does anyone know if WS has a thread started for today's train shooting in the Netherlands? I don't want to discuss that case here, but just direct me to the thread, if you know.)
     
  13. otto

    otto Verified Expert

    Messages:
    31,638
    Likes Received:
    26,890
    Trophy Points:
    113
  14. Elley Mae

    Elley Mae The enemy is here. beware

    Messages:
    18,045
    Likes Received:
    8,148
    Trophy Points:
    113


    Very good. Thanks
     
    cobalt sky and cody22 like this.
  15. cujenn81

    cujenn81 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,353
    Likes Received:
    967
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Dylan Roof initially advised the court that he planned to represent himself. I remember there was a lot of the same worry... (that he would attempt to use the court as a platform and/or make a mockery of the court proceedings.) Thankfully, in Roof's case, the judge ruled that he couldn't legally represent himself because the death penalty was on the table. I hope the NZ court is also able to prevent this lowlife from representing himself, as well.
     
  16. JudgeJudi

    JudgeJudi On Time Out

    Messages:
    8,738
    Likes Received:
    14,771
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It appears he has the right to represent himself.

    "The information in this section of the Ministry of Justice’s website will help you understand how you can represent yourself when defending a criminal charge in the High Court or appealing a judicial decision that was made in a lower court, to the High Court."

    Representing yourself in a criminal case in the High Court | New Zealand Ministry of Justice

    He will still have to follow the rules of Court and the Judge will stop him from saying anything inappropriate.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019
  17. glamourkitty1922

    glamourkitty1922 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,444
    Likes Received:
    3,192
    Trophy Points:
    113
    From what I read, prisoners don't get a taxpayer paid defense lawyer, they get a bill. Lots of people defend themselves in court to stop bankrupting their family members. They have that right, so I guess he will be defending himself. Going to court without a lawyer | New Zealand Ministry of Justice
     
    cujenn81, LaborDayRN and cody22 like this.
  18. sunnynz

    sunnynz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,018
    Likes Received:
    1,081
    Trophy Points:
    113
    He would be entitled to legal aid which means free legal representation paid for by the government. Can I get criminal legal aid? | New Zealand Ministry of Justice

    IMO he wants to represent himself because he likes the fame/publicity/chance to speak about his views
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019
  19. JudgeJudi

    JudgeJudi On Time Out

    Messages:
    8,738
    Likes Received:
    14,771
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Prime Minister Ardern:

    "He sought many things from his act of terror, but one was notoriety, and that is why you will never hear me mention his name.

    He is a terrorist, he is a criminal, he is an extremist, but he will, when I speak, be nameless.

    And to others, I implore you, speak the names of those who were lost rather than the name of the man who took them.

    He may have sought notoriety, but we in New Zealand will give him nothing, not even his name."

    Jacinda Ardern lashes Facebook over Christchurch shooter's live stream

    Exactly.
     
  20. drsleuth

    drsleuth Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,689
    Likes Received:
    4,718
    Trophy Points:
    113

Share This Page



  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice