New Zealand - Christchurch Mosque shooting, dead & injured reported, 15 March 2019

Discussion in 'Rampage Killings and Terrorist Attacks' started by north_west, Mar 14, 2019.

  1. otto

    otto Verified Expert

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    It's not surprising that people confuse religion and race, seems to happen quite often. The suspect murdered Caucasian people who practice one type of religion, and the media has gone crazy describing him as a racist. Go figure.
     
  2. cobalt sky

    cobalt sky Well-Known Member

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    While I completely understand the decision to restrict his access MSM, I am wondering what will happen when it comes time for trial. He said he would plead not guilty so if I understand NZ law correctly that means that the case has to go to trial. What I'm wondering is, will the NZ govt. try to suppress MSM access to the trial, or try to prevent them from reporting on it, and how might MSM respond to that? Will "insiders" sneak video or create secret transcripts of the trial and sell them? Just wondering how this will all play out.
     
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  3. cobalt sky

    cobalt sky Well-Known Member

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    Well to be fair he did admit that he's a racist lol :D. But I get what you're saying. :)
     
  4. sunnynz

    sunnynz Well-Known Member

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    I don't think there's been any suggestion of shutting media out of the courtroom, or restricting their reporting. The restrictions mentioned have been around not allowing him access to view or consume MSM. That's how I understand it.
     
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  5. sunnynz

    sunnynz Well-Known Member

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    The difference here in NZ is that the opposing political party (the National Party, the more right wing of our two major parties) is in support of gun law change too. Christchurch terror attacks: National Party leader Simon Bridges says gun control laws need changing

    So it's not about the ruling Labour party (the more left wing of our two major parties) pushing their agenda, everyone is largely on the same page in the need for change, from what's been said at this point in time.

    Gun control has never been the divisive issue in NZ that it is in the US. Completely different context here regarding political agendas and what not.
     
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  6. sunnynz

    sunnynz Well-Known Member

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    Although interestingly, while no suggestion if media being restricted at this stage, this article does detail the various special powers that can be applied around any trial. Timely to the original comment Analysis: What powers does judge have to curb fear of hate speech during Christchurch terror trial?
     
  7. otto

    otto Verified Expert

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    He's a crazy Caucasian mass murderer who thinks that murdering a bunch of Caucasians is racist - loose screw syndrome.
     
  8. Elley Mae

    Elley Mae The enemy is here. beware

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    Just read one of my favorite news sites, they have been banded in nz along with another.

    Hope this turns out the way they want, i’m sure it will.
     
  9. sunnynz

    sunnynz Well-Known Member

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    Which site is that? I can’t find a definitive list but know it includes sites like 8chan and liveleak. Let me know and I can do a test and see what happens.

    Reading just now that Australia has taken similar measures on a bunch of sites.

    I think the way we ‘hope it’ll turn out’ is that people stop sharing and viewing the video. Much like other objectionable material - child pornography, snuff films, bestiality, etc.

    I’m totally happy to forgo any websites that feature any of the above in the name of respect for the dead and the quest of stopping the spread of terrorist propaganda.
     
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  10. JudgeJudi

    JudgeJudi Well-Known Member

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    There hasn't been a trial like this one before so I have no idea how it will go. This may answer some questions. I can assure you, there will definitely be no insiders sneaking anything out of the court. Are you serious ... creating secret transcripts. lol

    The High Court judge who will preside over what will be an unprecedented trial will have a range of laws at his disposal to maintain order - one of which could see the trial held behind locked doors, with even members of the press banned from attending. NZ courts are generally open to the public, but any judge has the power to clear their court. This most often occurs when a complainant gives evidence in cases of a sexual nature. The judge can also exclude people, when necessary, to avoid undue disruption to the proceedings.

    Other reasons to close the court include a real risk of prejudice to a fair trial, endangering the safety of any person, prejudicing the maintenance of the law - including the prevention, investigation and detection of offences - and when a suppression order is not sufficient to avoid that risk.

    A judge can also clear the court if they believe it will avoid prejudicing the security or defence of New Zealand. This is also the only type of order which forces members of the media to leave a court.

    However, in the event of such an order, the verdict and sentence must take place in public unless the judge is satisfied that "exceptional circumstances exist".

    A judge also has the power to transfer the proceedings to a different place. A concern is that you can't find 12 people who are going to act impartially in relation to an event that's happened in their community".

    If the accused continues to defend himself, it is likely the court will appoint an amicus curiae (friend of the court). An amicus is a lawyer who is not a party to the case but assists the court and advises the defendant on the rules and how conduct his defence properly. This means it is also likely witnesses who could be traumatised by having to be cross-examined can instead be questioned by the amicus. They could also give evidence via closed circuit television to avoid seeing the defendant.

    Analysis: What powers does judge have to curb fear of hate speech during Christchurch terror trial?
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
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  11. Cryptic

    Cryptic Well-Known Member

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    It is probably better to look at how the perpetrator used The term 'white'. The perpetrator justified the attack using racial terms (opposition to non 'white' immigration / migration). Thus, the media emphasizes the racial motive.

    The fact that most of the victims were Caucasian in the anthropological sense does not mean that the shooter accepted them as being 'white'. Rather he directly stated that he did not accept them as 'white' and thus they were subject to attack.

    My guess if that it is very possible that the terrorist uses the term 'white' to describe a person with two characteristics:

    - being racially white (his definition- limited to Europeans, not the anthropological definition) and

    - Possessing a "white culture" (by the terrorist's definition, not the dictionary definition of the two separate terms)
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
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  12. coffeeandacig

    coffeeandacig Well-Known Member

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  13. cobalt sky

    cobalt sky Well-Known Member

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    RSBM

    Haha :D "creating secret transcripts" probably sounds a little dramatic, what I meant by this is someone sympathetic to his cause anonymously leaking trial testimony etc. to get his word out if the judge decides to not allow MSM etc.
     
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  14. JudgeJudi

    JudgeJudi Well-Known Member

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    Judges can give pretty precise instructions on what is and isn't allowed. If you go against the instructions, you're in contempt of court. There are always people in the courtroom who can see what's going on.
     
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  15. Tadpole12

    Tadpole12 Well-Known Member

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    @ Cryptic
    He used the terms 'race traiter' and 'hate', very inclusive.
     
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  16. Cryptic

    Cryptic Well-Known Member

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    Ironically Erdogan would have a fit if a western leader played 9-11 footage during a "juice'em up" rally- then made references to Turks "going home in coffins" like their ancestors did at Vienna (Ottomans defeated by European coalition led by Poland).

    But.... no western leader has done that. If Turkey wants to be accepted as a European nation, their leader needs to act like a European leader.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
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  17. PrairieWind

    PrairieWind Verified Attorney

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    How soon is a case likely to get to trial? I know this is unprecedented, but are there requirements on "speedy trial" like here in the US? Obviously, we are all about to learn a lot more about New Zealand law in the coming months.

    Also, if he is acting as his own attorney, can the state cut off his access to media without jeopardizing his rights to mount his own defense? I certainly understand wanting to not let him see media, not let him get any satisfaction from his horrific deeds, but does it cause problems and provide him defenses down the road?
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
  18. PrairieWind

    PrairieWind Verified Attorney

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    Erdogan is not a European leader. He is a brutal and ruthless dictator of what was once a peaceful secular nation and good ally.
     
  19. otto

    otto Verified Expert

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    Exactly. In the actions and 74-page ramblings of the murder, he reveals that he has a distorted, perverted interpretation of well known concepts and words. It would be refreshing for media to separate reality from this lunatic's version of the world. Instead, the media lacks critical reflection and accepts the murderer's words and actions as coherent.
     
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  20. otto

    otto Verified Expert

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    Shocking! This is why the murderer's actions and words need to be discussed in a more responsible context. Pretending that he is a normal thinking man who adhered to a rational ideology gives the lunatic credibility and will inevitably lead to a retaliatory response. There needs to be much more responsible perspectives, discussion and reporting on his mental instability and irrational views.
     
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