NH NH - Allenstown, Adult Female & 3 Children, found Nov'85 & May'00

[Babyslims]

I might of missed it but did they ever announce if these children had the same father or not?

 

[carbuff]

I might of missed it but did they ever announce if these children had the same father or not?

I don't recall ever reading that they said explicitly -- everything they said related to maternal relations.

 

[summer_breeze]

http://www.unionleader.com/article/20130210/NEWS03/130219950

February 10. 2013 12:50AM
By NANCY WEST
New Hampshire Sunday News

It may be a long shot, but investigators have renewed hope of identifying a young woman and three little girls who were murdered sometime around the early 1980s, then stuffed naked into two metal drums that were found 15 years apart in Allenstown - and finally finding their killer or killers.

 

[airplanelamp]

Now, I don't remember reading THIS info before?! I guess this excludes the previous theory (in this thread) that they were illegally being transported from Canada in the drums and suffocated.

On Nov. 10, 1985, a hunter found an overturned 55-gallon metal drum in the woods near Bear Brook State Park. The remains of a woman aged 23 to 33 and a girl aged 5 to 11 - which could be her daughter or sister - wrapped together in plastic were spilled onto the ground. The victims had been beaten to death.

Good info (already in the thread but still nicely laid out here)

1. Adult female, 23 to 33 based on anthropology, 23 to 24 based on dental evidence.

The woman was 5 feet 2 to 5 feet 7 inches tall, and had fine light brown curly hair.

2. Child 1 was found with the woman in the first barrel in 1985. Both her ears were double-pierced. Her age was estimated between 5 and 10 based on anthropology and 8 and 11 based on dental evidence. She was 4 feet 3 inches tall, had fine light brown or dirty blond hair.

The two girls found in 2000 in the second barrel:

3. Child 2 did not appear to be related to the woman or the other two children, based on mitochondrial DNA. She was 2 to 4 years old based on anthropology and 3 to 4 based on dental records. She had a noticeable overbite and stood 3 feet 8 inches tall. She had fine brown slightly wavy hair that was 12 to 13 inches long.

4. Child 3, found in the second barrel in 2000, was 1 to 3 years old based on anthropology and 2 to 3 years old on dental estimates. She had a gap between her two front teeth. She stood 2 feet 5 inches tall and had fine blond slightly wavy hair 8 to 12 inches long.

 

[carbuff]

This is at least twice as much information as they've ever released before. Apparently they've decided keeping things close to the vest isn't working.

 

[CherBearSTL]

Sorry if this theory has already been thrown out there, but could this be a case like Jaycee Dugard? A girl kidnapped as a child, kept captive and abused, and possibly having children with her captor. The children may not have even been known to exist and authorities may not be looking for the adult because she went missing as a child and the age of the adult victim wouldn't fit. This would possibly explain the confusion in DNA...maybe the other child is a half sister to the other children, not related to the mother, but fathered by the captor with another woman??? Hopefully this makes sense. I'm a little sleepy.

Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using Tapatalk 2

 

[alllads]

I really wish we knew which, if any, of the children share a father.

 

[carbuff]

I really wish we knew which, if any, of the children share a father.

Hopefully the next round of DNA testing and improved techniques will allow them to gather good enough samples to determine that. *fingers crossed*

 

[alllads]

Yes fingers crossed! I think figuring out how they are related might be the trick to figuring out who these people are related. Though my suspicion is that there is a man involved, a husband, boyfriend, partner, or father, who was responsible AND who knows who these people are. Maybe it's his wife, their 2 daughters, and a foster child, adopted child, his child from another woman... Someone who knows them could always say "oh she left me and took the children", or whatever. Also, the fact that they were all beaten to death makes me think of a domestic abuse situation.

 

[summer_breeze]

http://bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/0...s-cold-case/RF0YEF6YgqHOtFFBV0nKYJ/story.html

By Lynne Tuohy | ASSOCIATED PRESS FEBRUARY 17, 2013

CONCORD, N.H. — The two steel drums, found 15 years apart, held two bodies each. Three of them girls under 10. All were partially dismembered.

Decades after they were dumped in the New Hampshire woods, investigators have no idea who they are.

 

[Claudette]

I get the feeling this will be figured out by the end of the year and it will be one of those "right under the nose" things. Would NOT be surprised if it turned out they lived in the trailer park the barrels were found in.

 

[alllads]

I think this might also be the case of people that actually went missing a very long time ago but were not reported missing until much later, or else were never reported missing at all.

 

[McSpy]

I think this might also be the case of people that actually went missing a very long time ago but were not reported missing until much later, or else were never reported missing at all.

I agree. The woman could have been estranged from her family before she was murdered. Perhaps her family didn't know she had children as well.

I do think the person, who murdered them, knew the Allentown area in some capacity.

I wonder if there was any residue of a chemical in the barrels. This could possibly lead to an occupation of the murderer.

 

[carbuff]

I agree he knew the Allenstown area, but that includes Bear Brook State Park, which is one of the largest and most popular parks in New Hampshire. It attracts people from Boston looking for a weekend in the country, and from all over NH and Maine as well. It's also right off I-93, so lots of people who have never stayed there are aware of its existence (me, for instance).

http://www.nhstateparks.com/bearbrook.html
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=stat...&cid=0,0,2191399505466308463&t=m&z=12&iwloc=A

 

[katyscoot]

I'm sure this is one of those irritatingly naive comments by a newbie, but from what I've read on WS, there are often reporting mistakes made in height, etc. Are the mistakes so broad that race could be misinterpreted from skeletal remains? The date, ages, and heights are about right with the Browns, but race, hair, and -- in one case (Barry) -- gender is off. (Although, in his age progression, Barry looks like he has an overbite.) Could chemical residue in the drums have corrupted the hair samples? It's just so odd how many of the details do match up.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/brown_carolyn.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/brown_sheketah.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/brown_barry.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/brown_brandon.html

 

[dotr]

I'm sure this is one of those irritatingly naive comments by a newbie, but from what I've read on WS, there are often reporting mistakes made in height, etc. Are the mistakes so broad that race could be misinterpreted from skeletal remains? The date, ages, and heights are about right with the Browns, but race, hair, and -- in one case (Barry) -- gender is off. (Although, in his age progression, Barry looks like he has an overbite.) Could chemical residue in the drums have corrupted the hair samples? It's just so odd how many of the details do match up.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/brown_carolyn.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/brown_sheketah.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/brown_barry.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/brown_brandon.html

Welcome to WS katyscoot and thanks for a great first (or second) contribution to this thread!

 

[dotr]

www.doenetwork.org/cases/525ufnh.html

The Doe Network:
Case File 525UFNH

Reconstruction of Victim by NCMEC

Unidentified White Female


The victim was discovered on November 10, 1985 in Allenstown, Merrimack County, New Hampshire
Estimated Date of Death: 1-4 years prior
Skeletal Remains


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vital Statistics


Estimated age: 5-10 years old
Approximate Height and Weight: 4'3"
Distinguishing Characteristics: Possibly Native. Dark blonde or light brown, fine hair. Double-pierced ears.
Dentals: Shovel shaped anterior dentition.
DNA: Pending


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Case History
On November 10, 1985, the skeletal remains of a female and one female child were located in Allenstown, NH.

The bodies, wrapped in plastic strips, was found by a hunter in a wooded area between the Bear Brook Gardens trailer park and Bear Brook State Park in Allenstown. They were in a wooded area far from any roads. The cause of each death was repeated blows to the head from a blunt instrument, although there was evidence of other injuries.

On May 9, 2000, the skeletal remains of two additional female children were recovered. DNA testing confirmed that two of the children were biologically related to the adult female. All four victims may be biologically linked, but DNA results are still pending.

All four decedents are believed to be Caucasian or Native American and they are believed to have died in the early 1980's.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Investigators
If you have any information about this case please contact:
National Center for Missing & Exploited Children
B.J. Spamer
913-469-5437
E-Mail
You may remain anonymous when submitting information.

Agency Case Number:
85-1051

Source Information:
UDRS

Bumping this post for others like myself, who are new to this case.

 

[katyscoot]

Another odd but mismatched coincidence: the eldest child, Sheketah, is not Carolyn's blood relative, although the two younger children are.

 

[scrambledeggs]

I'm sure I read somewhere in this thread that the UIDwoman isn't the mother of any of the UID children but related in another way (eg - aunt)?

 

[notamisfit]

It's a mitochondrial DNA match for two of the children; could be mother, could be another (relatively close, due to the mutation rate) female line relative. They would need nuclear DNA to determine further, and according to NamUS, they weren't able to collect it in the first set of bodies due to the state of the remains.