NH NH - Allenstown, Adult Female & 3 Children, found Nov'85 & May'00

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I liked RT51's theory about Albanian immigrants.



It would make perfect sense if they were a family of immigrants who made very little contact with the community around them. I'm not sure how the one child who is not biologically connected to the others fits into that scenario though.

Would their dental work show that they lived somewhere else (other than the US)? The kids might be too young to have any, but I know on some other cases they can tell WHERE they lived (based on tooth formation? minerals in the water?)

As far as schools/churches noticing them gone...my mom worked in a school for 20 plus years and every year there would be kids that just wouldn't show up to school and with no notice. Everyone figured that the family moved and didn't notify them, or they were migrant workers of some sort. No effort is made to contact them other than perhaps calling the phone # listed in their forms. The phone numbers for ALL the enrolled kids were wrong more than half the time because parents forget to update them. Anyway, what I am trying to say is that it is easy for a family to disappear-- unless they have close friends or other family members watching out for them. I have left churches more than once and no one ever called me to check and make sure I was around.

Also, remember that case in AZ where the perp took some of her kids and her "adopted" kid camping? The "adopted" child was killed. That child's mother had just kinda given that poor baby to her friend to raise because she was a druggie. So we could have a case like that. (Sorry I don't remember the child's name)

There are a lot of transient families out there- not homeless but living a month here, a month there, a week in a hotel room and a week in a friend's basement. Sometimes they have a phone, sometimes they don't...and I think the people they know don't expect to have regular contact with them. And after enough time goes by they just shrug and figure they moved on to a better life somewhere with a new boyfriend or whatever.
 
Gosh. I got very confused while reading this one. Can someone clarify for me, the adult victim, the oldest child, and the youngest child are "related maternally, but she is not their mother". Would a viable scenario in that case be that she is their aunt (their mother's sister)? Are there other scenarios that would exist with that relationship?
 
It sounds like they got a match on the mitochondrial DNA but not the STR. The mitochondrial DNA gets passed directly from mother to children, without any contribution to the father, and it doesn't mutate much across generations. Most likely she's an aunt, but she could be grandmother, great-grandmother -- or any female descended through the female line. So she could be a cousin as well.
 
It sounds like they got a match on the mitochondrial DNA but not the STR. The mitochondrial DNA gets passed directly from mother to children, without any contribution to the father, and it doesn't mutate much across generations. Most likely she's an aunt, but she could be grandmother, great-grandmother -- or any female descended through the female line. So she could be a cousin as well.

Thank you.

So we know that the younger and older match maternally to the adult. Do we know if the younger and older are for sure siblings? Or is it just a maternal match between the 3 family members?

I wonder if this could be a man who has killed his wife's sister, their 2 girls, and his child from a previous relationship? Then kills her after the fact and her body just hasn't been found yet?
 
I liked RT51's theory about Albanian immigrants.



It would make perfect sense if they were a family of immigrants who made very little contact with the community around them. I'm not sure how the one child who is not biologically connected to the others fits into that scenario though.

I've heard of a few different cases in the USA and Canada where a family immigrated and they brought a child/children with them claiming that they were their kids, but in actuality they weren't, they were either related but not their children (i.e. they were nieces/nephews/cousins/etc) or they were children of a friend who they were bringing the child to North America for "a better life" (sometimes this went really bad, as it did with a young girl in Irvine, CA a few years ago). I wonder if that could be the situation with the woman and three girls in NH? The cases that I could think of, though, were people from Africa (Egypt, Nigeria, and Ethiopia) or the Caribbean (Haiti).
 
Thank you.

So we know that the younger and older match maternally to the adult. Do we know if the younger and older are for sure siblings? Or is it just a maternal match between the 3 family members?

I wonder if this could be a man who has killed his wife's sister, their 2 girls, and his child from a previous relationship? Then kills her after the fact and her body just hasn't been found yet?

That would certainly be possible. It's also possible her body has been found and either not been identified or not connected to this UID.

I lived in NH around the time the bodies were found. Lots of dumping had taken place in that area, particularly illegal dumping of toxic industrial waste. That's why the barrels sat there for so long without anybody thinking they were suspicious. But that also made people suspect they were dumped by somebody with gang connections. No evidence on that, just local gossip.
 
Double ear piercings were becoming popular in the early to mid-1980s in the region where I grew up in Southwest Virginia, also in Northeast Tennessee. I remember going to a dance at another school in 1985 and noticing a girl who had 3 piercings in each ear. I remember it because it was the first time I'd seen 3 piercings and I was thinking how cool it was because I only had one in each ear. I never saw multiple piercings before the 80s, and I was born in 1970. In fact, in the 70s most of the women I knew still wore earrings that either clipped on or had screw backs. I am thinking this would mean the girl disappeared in 1980 or later.

I can think of several scenarios in which the woman might have had several children with her who were not hers, one example being she is with her sister's children and a step-child belonging to her sister or to a close friend or relative not related by blood but by marriage. It makes more sense if they were immigrants as far as explaining why nobody is looking for missing children with different mothers. Maybe this woman was raising the children of two deceased women. If she were in a relationship with a man who then beat them all to death, he may not have been the father of any of them.

Just my two cents.
 
The police investigation was and continues to be extremely thorough. They went to every school in the region, looked at attendance records, and followed up on anybody who wasn't around any more, in some cases as far as California, to make sure the children who had moved were really still alive. They checked homeschooling records, Sunday School records, asked pediatricians to review their records -- no stone unturned.

This location is not far off I-93, which is a major route between Boston and Canada. One speculation at the time was that they were part of a group of illegal immigrants being smuggled to Boston from Canada hidden in drums, and that they died by accident (suffocated, froze to death, etc.) on the way south and were just dumped to dispose of the evidence.
 
Double piercing became popular in the mid to late 70s here. I had mine pierced the second time in early '77 after admiring my cousin's, whose were done probably in '76. It took me awhile to work up my nerve! Got my third set in the mid 80s. I'm done now. :)
 
Would their dental work show that they lived somewhere else (other than the US)? The kids might be too young to have any, but I know on some other cases they can tell WHERE they lived (based on tooth formation? minerals in the water?)

As far as schools/churches noticing them gone...my mom worked in a school for 20 plus years and every year there would be kids that just wouldn't show up to school and with no notice. Everyone figured that the family moved and didn't notify them, or they were migrant workers of some sort. No effort is made to contact them other than perhaps calling the phone # listed in their forms. The phone numbers for ALL the enrolled kids were wrong more than half the time because parents forget to update them. Anyway, what I am trying to say is that it is easy for a family to disappear-- unless they have close friends or other family members watching out for them. I have left churches more than once and no one ever called me to check and make sure I was around.

Also, remember that case in AZ where the perp took some of her kids and her "adopted" kid camping? The "adopted" child was killed. That child's mother had just kinda given that poor baby to her friend to raise because she was a druggie. So we could have a case like that. (Sorry I don't remember the child's name)

There are a lot of transient families out there- not homeless but living a month here, a month there, a week in a hotel room and a week in a friend's basement. Sometimes they have a phone, sometimes they don't...and I think the people they know don't expect to have regular contact with them. And after enough time goes by they just shrug and figure they moved on to a better life somewhere with a new boyfriend or whatever.

bbm -- I didn't see this post earlier. Must have just skipped by accident.

They had announced a couple of years ago that they were having isotope analysis done in an attempt to get that information, but I haven't seen anything about the results being returned. I don't know if the tests were unsuccessful, or if it just takes forever, or if budget constraints caught up with them, or what.

I think I've mentioned this earlier, but NH LE did an extremely thorough job of checking out every kid who left school in the entire state (and I think in neighboring parts of MA and ME as well). They didn't just make phone calls -- in some cases they sent people to verify that the children who had moved were in fact alive. They talked to churches and child service agencies and dance and gymnastics schools and everybody else they could think of trying to locate children who might not be in the school system.

NH has a lot of migrant agricultural workers in the summer. They took the information to the camps and tried to see if anybody remembered them. They asked through truckers and the people who worked at the tollbooths.

Which isn't to say they didn't miss something, but it wasn't from lack of trying. This one is a real puzzler.

I really wish we could find them. We lived only about 15 miles from where the first barrel was found -- my kids were about the same age. It hit me hard.

For a long time they suspected it was Elaine Yates and her daughters, but the DNA testing conclusively ruled that out.
 
There are now multiple rule-outs for the adult female...

https://identifyus.org/cases/2174

Nancy Baird 1952 Utah
Ella Beth Lodermeier 1948 South Dakota
Anne Manchester 1954 Delaware
Aleca Manning 1952 Arizona
Linda Nickell 1955 Michigan
Patricia Otto 1952 Idaho
Kristina Perkins 1953 Arizona
Wanda Priddy 1958 Texas
Patricia Schmidt 1964 Virginia
Diane Schulte 1954 Idaho
Kimberly Stewart 1956 California
 
The child that is unrelated to the others NamUs lists the age as 4-8 years old. Under the dental section it says that "No permanent teeth have erupted". And the "Dental age 3.0-4.5 years old ".

Is dental age more accurate??

https://identifyus.org/cases/2175
 
I have no idea but my personal guess would be that it is? I would assume teeth start to be lost between 4 and 8. Adult teeth aren't full size when born (obviously) and grow over a few years. It's probably similar to judging age base on the fusion of the skull scalp bones (whatever they're called) on young kids/babies as well. That all fuses at relatively the same rate for all people. All teeth PROBABLY grow at the same rate with some exceptions.
 
... It's probably similar to judging age base on the fusion of the skull scalp bones (whatever they're called) on young kids/babies as well. That all fuses at relatively the same rate for all people. ...

BBM

They're called cranial sutures.
 
It is rather possible, but it is pretty damn impractical. They live in CA; that is very long distance to go to dump bodies

The barrels in which the bodies were found are the kind in which various liquid chemicals (paint, solvents, photochemicals, cleaning fluid, etc. etc. etc.) are stored. The area where they were found is an area where waste barrels of that type were often illegally dumped; such shipments often came into the area from other parts of the country. So it's possible they were put in the barrels quite a long way away.
 
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