NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #11

[posimosh]

Regarding the rag in the tailpipe.

Suggestions indicated that Fred told his daughter to stuff a rag in there to stop the exhaust from smoking. If Fred knew anything about cars he would have told her to have an oil change instead. I'm not going to bombastically say that stuffing a rag in there would kill the engine, because the rag would have to cover the pipe completely to do so. Or maybe the pipe had a leak further inwards? No way of knowing.

But Fred said that the reason for buying her a new car was that the Saturn apparently ran on only 3 cylinders and had a wicked smoke coming from the exhaust. These two problems are not related and tells me that Fred didn't know a whole lot about cars. Also it appeared like he accepted the 8-10k in damages at face value, not investigating that further.

Pretty sure an oil change won't help a car with a blown head gasket, a bad efi system/sensor, an electrical problem that would cause a spark plug not to spark (and thus dump raw gas in to the exhaust manifold where it would be turned in to smoke), or if its burning oil because of a blown seal or a crack in the block (and its smoking constantly) you can be pulled over for this reason and this reason alone... And contact with cops is never good... ever... if you are in contact with a cop, you are that same cop having a bad day away from spending the night in jail.
I'm sure with Maura's recent interaction with police, she would have rather avoided any further contact (thank you very much), and seen as though any major engine repair (like what would be needed to say... I donno... fix a car that smokes constantly) would have cost far more than the car was actually worth, a rag in the exhaust sounds like a perfectly reasonable stop gap measure until the upcoming catastrophic failure which would finally coax her folks in to getting her a new car.

I do not believe Fred at all that he was up there to buy Maura another car. It beggars belief that a man who grow up in Fred's time and in his social class would plunk down $4,000 for a car when the current one just needed to be repaired.

What if the current car would cost more than the current car is worth, to repair? Sounds like it's time to cut your losses and encourage your daughter who had recently resorted to stealing in order to cover basic expenses, that things really are going to be ok. And that you are proud of her for making it like 90 percent of the way through one of the best nursing programs in the state.
I can tell you, in 2001 I was commuting 3 hours to college, weekly, in a 1968 camaro with no AC, a whine plagued Saganaw transmission, and vinyl seats that stuck to you when it was the least bit hot. The passanger door didn't open and I had only lap belts and my wits to keep me safe if a semi-driver fell asleep on the other side of Hwy 99 while I was commuting Friday and Sunday nights to and from school. Anyway, I surely wasn't going to get out of anyone's way in my camaro because I would have been too distracted by how frikkin hot it was with the big *advertiser censored** hole in the floor where the transmission had been "fit" (I use this word in the loosest possible way) through the floorboard in order to be able to operate the increasingly vague linkage on the transmission, to be paying any attention to oncoming traffic. Oh, and there was the oversized front tyres I thought "looked cool" coupled with the lack of power steering which made turning impossible... And the fact that, occasionally, when it got hot, the car would just die... Which was only slightly better than when it rained, because, of course, the windshield wipers didn't work, and the headlights and brakelights worked "occasionally". Suffice to say, I identify with Maura quite a bit.
Long story short, I had never been given anything from my parents except love, food, and a roof over my head. But after a night or relatively minor bad choices which landed me in jail, I freaked out. Primarily because I couldn't believe they actually took you to jail for being "drunk in public" in Chico, California on Halloween... Point is, the next time I came home I lost it... because of stress. That same day I sold my Camaro, and my parents bought me a 2 year old jetta that started every time, had A/C, and everything worked (and had a warranty!) I got $2.5k for my car and my parents covered the other $7k, so it is not out of the realm of possibility that Maura had a few drinks, bumped a guardrail, and her dad concluded that she needed a little encouragement not to crawl in to a bottle every time things get tough... This would explain her coming to the hotel late at night... Put yourself in her shoes... What would you do if you could run to your pops?

 

[Fireweed]

What if the current car would cost more than the current car is worth, to repair?

Well then of course most people would just move on to another car. My issue is that Maura's car made it on a three hour plus road trip without breaking down. It was also only eight years old. I am not buying that it was a junker and needed to be replaced entirely. Fred himself says it was running on three cylinders. Okay, that is a repair in the $600 range. It is certainly not a reason to get another car. My current car is 7 years old and I would never, ever replace it if it needed a repair that costs less than a $1,000.

I do not think Maura's car was in bad shape at all. Like most cars, it likely needed maintenance, but it obviously ran well enough to make it up to Haverhill that day. Fred Murray was not rich and had three other children. I find it very hard to believe that he would not just get the car repaired and save the money.

 

[Coffeelover]

I've always thought that the car situation was weird. Those 90's Saturns lasted a long time, certainly much longer than 8 years, with some maintenance.

My 21 yo daughter currently drives an 11 year old car, but we've had to put some money into it. But it's still much better than buying another and also having to likely pay more for car insurance.

My thoughts are that Maura had some drinks at the party, and in a somewhat drunken state decided that there was something so important to talk to Fred about that it couldn't wait (alcohol = confidence, less inhibition). On her way over she had an accident and when she got to her dads hotel, he was livid (rightly so!). Between the initial problem she had that she was trying to discuss and Fred freaking out on her she decided to take off.

 

[dogperson]

Personally, as a young woman like Maura (or even as a woman in my 40s now) I wouldn't take a trip in a car that was behaving unreliably. I had a car in the 1990s with a starter that had to be repaired 3 different times. It got so if I was just running in someplace for a minute I would leave the car running and lock it with a set of spare keys, for fear of it not restarting. If Maura's car was as bad as Fred says, why would she take a long trip like that? Especially in winter and when she would still be traveling after dark. If she'd had a companion with her I would think it more likely she would be less afraid of a breakdown, but as far as we know she didn't have a companion, and I don't personally buy the traveling in tandem theory.

 

[KenShabby]

I've always thought that the car situation was weird. Those 90's Saturns lasted a long time, certainly much longer than 8 years, with some maintenance.

The 90's Saturns did last. I had a '95 Saturn — essentially the same model as Maura's. With regular oil changes and only sporadic maintenance, my Saturn was on the road from December 1994 until June 2011, when the engine finally gave out. Of course, everyone's mileage will vary.

 

[Fireweed]

Unless the Saturn has been junked, I wonder if there would be any way to get where it is being stored and actually examine it?

 

[OUFENIX]

I've been interested in this case for years now and have been trying to keep up with it when I get the chance. I had never had a real theory that I was so set on that I really felt the need to share until about a week ago, so after trying to catch up on the case through hundreds upon hundreds of postings on WS and a few other blogs, I finally decided, screw it, I've neglected my stay-at-home mom duties long enough. So, if this theory has already been proposed, then forgive me for not reading all the material in its entirety!

Okay, so, it seems as though Maura was a very quiet, non confrontational person. Sometimes, people like that (like me for example) are very secretly passive aggressive (also like me). Instead of starting fights with people, we just find other ways to prove our points, regardless of the outcome, as long as we aren't directly the "bad guy". Maybe FM came up to go look at cars with Maura the weekend before she disappeared, but he hadn't 100% committed to purchasing her one. Maybe that's why she decided to go back to her dad's hotel room that night, maybe to butter him up as "daddy's little girl who really needs a safe car". But on her way there, she wrecks his brand new car and when she tells him, the deal is now off. He can't afford to get a rental, fix his new (now un-drivable) car and also buy her a new one. So they argue about it for a while, and ultimately he gets a rental car and drops her back off at her dorms and says, we'll just have to see what this is all going to cost me and sometime in the future, we'll talk about getting your car fixed or look into shopping for one again" and she says "what am I supposed to do in the meantime about the smoke coming out of the back?" He says "just put a rag in the tailpipe, it's not like you're going very far in it, plus you already have a ride for your clinicals". So then she gets out of the car and goes up to her room, fuming.

That night (or the next night, i can't remember anymore) she gets on her computer and emails BR and says sorry, I just didn't feel like talking. Thinking about her life and how crappy it's been lately, she browses through old emails from BR and comes across one that reminds her of things he has done to her in the past and so she prints it out and sets it on top of the boxes she either hasn't unpacked (or has packed). She starts looking for directions to "getaway" places that she's familiar with and calls a few, but makes no reservations (maybe because she'd need a cc, who knows).

The next day, she wakes up, emails the professors so that she could either come back if she backs out or so that no one will come looking for her yet. Either way, she grabs a few things and heads off to the ATM and then liquor store. She gets exactly what she needs to make her favorite drinks, wine with vodka and black Russians and Baileys for her coffee (since coffee makers are in most hotel rooms).

I think she poured herself a vodka and wine in a coke bottle for liquid courage, called whomever she was planning on meeting with (guy in the red truck possibly) and let him know she was stopping by to get some forms and headed off towards her destination (the one she had a map and hand written directions to.) I think she took an out of the way route too, so that she could leave her car there and switch to this other persons car unseen. I don't know if she staged the wreck, necessarily, but I do think she put the rag in the tailpipe to prove to her dad that the car was not reliable and that his "bright idea" was what caused this. To add insult to injury, she leaves his papers in the car, so that either she was still the good daughter, who just got into this unfortunate accident with the car her dad has "forced" her to continue driving, or a "here are the papers for the your car, which is way more important than my safety" kind of statement. Who knows?

Then she dumps out the alcohol she had with her and gets into this red truck who was on his way to pick her up. She leaves the (open) wine box and her mixed drink in the coke bottle at the site (no open containers- maybe the driver wasn't cool with driving illegally). And in the rush, with the bus driver calling the police and knowing they're on their way, she may have forgotten a few things or whatever, she jumps in and they're on their way to who-knows-where.

Maybe this whole thing was to leave behind her life and start a new one, and in the end, go out with a bang (so to speak) by giving everyone who made her feel so oppressed, the finger.

Anyway, this is all my opinion. It just seems as though everything she had, she had to work for (2 part time jobs, track, good grades that had to be kept up) and for what? She did what everyone else expected of her, but those people gave her very little in return for her dedication. Sometimes life just gets too hard and you wanna run away from it all. If she's going to work this damn hard, it might as well be on her own terms, doing what she wants without focusing on keeping up appearances. Just my opinion (and my husband's)

Sorry so long and detailed, just wanted to get it all out at once!

 

[Lolacat]

Order of how things happened:

Fred had warned police that his daughter may have come to their area to do personal harm to himself, before fred had even left Shelton Connecticut to come to the white mountains area.

Police discovered the rag in the tailpipe and came to the conclusion that the rag may have been a hurried suicide attempt which only bolsters what Maura's dad had warned them.

When fred arrived to the scene and was being briefed, he was put on the spot about the rag in the tailpipe.

Fred (at that point, regretting that he led police to believe his daughter may have been suicidal) had to come up with an answer for it on the spot.

His answer made little sense and sounds like someone pulling it out of their butt.


Conclusion

Fred likely never had a conversation with his daughter about what to do with a rag in a tailpipe. It was his story to police to get them to switch focus from Maura being a personal danger to herself to Maura running into danger instead in the white mountains area.

If Maura had met with foul play, police would have to increase resources and time on the case until they got answers.

There must have been some pretty powerful reasons why Fred immediately thought of suicide. I mean, if someone you love goes missing or fails to turn return from work etc.. the natural thought would be: they've had an accident of some kind. You wouldnt immediately assume "OMG they've gone off to kill themselves", UNLESS you have specific reason to think that. Why did Fred assume this? Even Maura just crashing his car doesnt account for this. When I was in school, pretty much every teen boy in my class crashed their parents car at one stage or another. It certainly wasnt Maura's finest hour but suicide? It makes me think of Fred's statement when he says: "at the motel she [Maura] said this is the worse". That, along with the "whimpering" seems a very over the top reaction to a simple car accident which can be easily covered by insurance. Something is very wrong here.

 

[dogperson]

There must have been some pretty powerful reasons why Fred immediately thought of suicide. I mean, if someone you love goes missing or fails to turn return from work etc.. the natural thought would be: they've had an accident of some kind. You wouldnt immediately assume "OMG they've gone off to kill themselves", UNLESS you have specific reason to think that. Why did Fred assume this? Even Maura just crashing his car doesnt account for this. When I was in school, pretty much every teen boy in my class crashed their parents car at one stage or another. It certainly wasnt Maura's finest hour but suicide? It makes me think of Fred's statement when he says: "at the motel she [Maura] said this is the worse". That, along with the "whimpering" seems a very over the top reaction to a simple car accident which can be easily covered by insurance. Something is very wrong here.

Yes, I agree that Fred knew she was terribly upset about something. When a loved one is missing you would assume either 1) An accident or 2) An abduction. Unless the person had seemed really depressed and despondent I wouldn't even think of suicide.

As to the damage Maura did to Fred's car, as an insurance agent I can say that all the money he would have been out of pocket was his deductible. The only exception I know of is if he had signed a form to exclude Maura from coverage on his policy which is unlikely or he wouldn't have let her borrow it in the first place. If he carried rental coverage he would have been able to claim his car rental as well. So unless his deductible was very high it wouldn't have made a large dent in the $4,000 supposedly set aside for Maura's car. Personally, I am believing more and more that the car purchase was a coverup for what the $4,000 was actually for. In my own family if I'd been away at college with an unreliable car my parents would have loaned me their car and taken the unreliable one home with them.

 

[scoops]

There must have been some pretty powerful reasons why Fred immediately thought of suicide. I mean, if someone you love goes missing or fails to turn return from work etc.. the natural thought would be: they've had an accident of some kind. You wouldnt immediately assume "OMG they've gone off to kill themselves", UNLESS you have specific reason to think that. Why did Fred assume this? Even Maura just crashing his car doesnt account for this. When I was in school, pretty much every teen boy in my class crashed their parents car at one stage or another. It certainly wasnt Maura's finest hour but suicide? It makes me think of Fred's statement when he says: "at the motel she [Maura] said this is the worse". That, along with the "whimpering" seems a very over the top reaction to a simple car accident which can be easily covered by insurance. Something is very wrong here.

Very good points that you have made.

He just spent the weekend with her and would have the best idea (out of anyone) what kind of emotional state his daughter was in at the time he left to go back to work.

Upon learning about the car accident, he immediately was calling into 911 to try and get a hold of the proper law enforcement agency NOT TO LEARN ABOUT what happened (abandoned car near the entrance of the white mountains, driver missing) but rather to PASS ALONG URGENT information concerning his daughter.

His first pleas publically were to Maura herself. Not to a bad guy (who may have abducted her).

IMO, when that first 48 to 72 hour window of time passed and no Maura, I believe Fred already knew it was to late. I truly believe Fred believed his daughter was no longer alive (that early in the investigation).

His comment about finding Maura up in the mountains naked and drunk (I don't believe was spoken out of humor or to lighten up a tense moment). It was a comment, IMO, that had to do with hiking and not being properly prepared, having too much to drink which can lead to hypothermia and eventually paradoxical undressing, almost like a story ending straight out of "Not Without Peril."

A person with severe hypothermia in the mountains would eventually start to feel like they are burning and would begin to strip off their clothes even it was bone-chilling cold outside. It's usually a step that happens right before death.

After the first few days of being on scene of the accident, His focus would shift entirely (no more pleas to his daughter). Fred, instead began to question the investigation (most specifically that first night when Maura actually went missing).

Fred would have cameras rolling as he would search for his daughter himself (almost like sending a message to anyone watching, that he was all alone in trying to find his daughter).

Even though I believe Fred felt his daughter was no longer alive, he did want to find her still.

Unfortunately, police don't move so fast and provide so many resources when someone willfully disappears, especially into the mountains.

But a story about a bad guy on the loose, snatching up any vulnerable female in the area, will force the hand of the police to keep at the investigation with all the resources they have available until that bad guy is finally caught.

Fred knew/hoped that by introducing a bad guy theory publically, the public would be so outraged that they wouldn't allow the police to back down from the investigation, like they were probably starting to do when they couldn't find Maura

 

[Lolacat]

Fred knew/hoped that by introducing a bad guy theory publically, the public would be so outraged that they wouldn't allow the police to back down from the investigation, like they were probably starting to do when they couldn't find Maura[/QUOTE]
(Bolded is your quote scoops- not sure why it hasnt appeared as a quote)

So, presumably, after introducing the "local dirtbag" theory, Fred has essentially boxed himself in. He is now unable to talk about Maura's mental state prior to the accident or express any concerns about her words/actions being in any way suicidal or disturbed because he has been pushing the dirtbag theory so vociferously. Perhaps thats why he keeps insisting that the days beforehand "do not matter"- he has tied himself up in knots.

 

[scoops]

Fred knew/hoped that by introducing a bad guy theory publically, the public would be so outraged that they wouldn't allow the police to back down from the investigation, like they were probably starting to do when they couldn't find Maura

(Bolded is your quote scoops- not sure why it hasnt appeared as a quote)

So, presumably, after introducing the "local dirtbag" theory, Fred has essentially boxed himself in. He is now unable to talk about Maura's mental state prior to the accident or express any concerns about her words/actions being in any way suicidal or disturbed because he has been pushing the dirtbag theory so vociferously. Perhaps thats why he keeps insisting that the days beforehand "do not matter"- he has tied himself up in knots.[/QUOTE]

Exactly!

The local dirtbag theory came out of nowhere and came real fast.

No evidence has ever pointed to an abduction, not in the days after Maura went missing and not some 10 years later.

 

[Fireweed]

No evidence has ever pointed to an abduction, not in the days after Maura went missing and not some 10 years later.

Exactly. There is zero evidence that Maura was abducted by a stranger. BTW, Fred always calls this guy a "local" dirtbag. So in over ten years time, some local kidnapped and murdered a woman he did not know and had never seen before, and he has magically kept off the radar this entire time? Do people understand that kidnapping and murdering a stranger takes an extremely rare type of criminal? A type that is predatory and thus keeps doing it until they are caught?

There is reason why prostitutes and runaways are the main victims of guys like these. Catching a "regular" woman, raping and killing her without get caught is very, very difficult. Does it happen? Sure, but it is extremely rare. Prostitutes and desperate runaways will get into a stranger's car, and they will go somewhere private with him. "Regular" women will not do that.

Okay, now someone is going to hit back that Maura, out of desperation, may have eventually taken a ride with someone. Okay, that could have happened. My question is this, what are the odds that the one person who Maura got a ride with that night on a desolate stretch of road in rural area just so happened to be the worst kind of predator out there? The odds are so low they are close to zero.

If Maura was murdered by anyone, then statistically speaking, it was the person she was meeting up there (if that is what she was doing).

Fred certainly knows this. My own theory is that if Maura just took off and never contacted her family again, something inside Fred does not really want her to be found. Knowing that truth is actually more painful to him than thinking she was the victim of a predator.

 

[docwho3]

This may have been posted about before but I found 2 things a bit interesting. I had known of one of them before but I don't remember about the other one.

1.'. . . On November 1, a man calling himself “Tom Davies” logged onto Anderson’s site and asked, “What color was Maura’s backpack?”
“Black,” was the reply. “Why do you ask?”
“I ask because about a year after Maura disappeared, I found a black backpack in the woods behind the bathrooms at the Pemigewasset Overlook.”
Davies went on to say that after he found the backpack, he informed a state trooper, but had heard nothing since. Could the backpack still be up there? “Being a father with several daughters,” Davies wrote, “I’ve been haunted by Maura’s disappearance.”
A week later, a commenter named NHRider asked, “Was the area not far from the road? I am going to take a ride up there today and look.”
An hour and a half later, NHRider posted again: “Holy Crap!! I almost crapped my pants! Tom is legit. I just got back from the Pemi overlook and I found the black backpack.”
NHRider said he contacted the authorities and gave them directions to find the backpack, which was around 30 miles from where Maura was last seen. He said he didn’t have a camera with him so he didn’t take any photos, but reported that the bag was empty and “frozen solid.” He claimed that when he went back to the scene the following day the backpack was gone, presumably taken by the cold-case unit. All Strelzin will say is that “we are aware of the backpack.” It’s impossible to know whether it was a real clue, a red herring, or part of some loony Internet game . . .'
http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/article/2014/01/28/maura-murray/3/


2.'. . . Renner wrote on his site that he discovered that just three months before her disappearance, Maura was visited by police officers at her dorm on account of $79.02 she had spent on pizza deliveries with a stolen credit card number. He also wrote that records indicated the charges would be dropped within three months under one condition: Maura would have to stay out of trouble until then. Could her late-night car accident, after drinking at a party, have brought those charges back into play? . . .'
http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/article/2014/01/28/maura-murray/4/

I also found a link online to a pdf file that seems to document about the credit card thing and has a mug shot type pic on about page 19.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7_atAFvowRhcy1kTnEzbXRCUDg/edit?pli=1

 

[docwho3]

Also if you read that pdf file it might be good to pay attention to the last 2 paragraphs of page 24 where it speaks of a note card.

 

[Jerri Blank]

if she wasn't arrested or cited at the scene of the accident, i doubt that would have triggered action in regards to the credit card charges. it would be the same as getting a flat tire and having police come out and help you... whether or not she knew that or was able to think clearly about it, i don't know.

 

[docwho3]

if she wasn't arrested or cited at the scene of the accident, i doubt that would have triggered action in regards to the credit card charges. it would be the same as getting a flat tire and having police come out and help you... whether or not she knew that or was able to think clearly about it, i don't know.

I am thinking that she was already planning to leave at the time of the accident, perhaps because there may have been more credit card crime to be found or perhaps for other reasons.

I do wonder what the effect of any sort of credit card fraud conviction would have done to her chances of landing the job she was schooling for.

I know it seems silly to some that a person might runaway because of a court date over a relatively small crime but I have known a case where just such a thing happened with a person younger than Maura so to me this is a possible trigger to run. . . just one possible trigger out of other possible triggers.

I also wonder what else was really on that note card and what further investigation of the note card numbers would have turned up.

'. . . I asked _ _ _ _ how she remembered the number, _ _ _ _ just stood quietly without speaking for a moment looking at the floor. After a few moments I asked her to give me the receipt that she had or whatever she used to remember the number. _ _ _ _ then went to the desk in her room and retrieved a note card with the credit card number on it. _ _ _ _ handed me the card, I looked it over and asked what the other numbers on the card were she stated that the were friends phone numbers. I noted that written next to the credit card number on the note card was room _ _ _ _ . . .'
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7_atAFvowRhcy1kTnEzbXRCUDg/edit?pli=1

 

[Fireweed]

Who knows? Maybe she had a lot more credit card fraud crimes under her belt than just that one. Was the $4,000 to pay off another debt she owed or some sort of restitution?

One thing I think though is that she had been planning to run away starting at least that Thursday. I think her "breakdown" at work was a farce, intended to set herself up for the "family emergency" email she was going to send her boss later. It was very important to Maura that her supervisor see that.

 

[Fireweed]

Check out the latest post on Renner's blog. I am starting to think that there was no "party" that Saturday night. Only two people in the whole world have ever even spoken about it, and both have lied about where it was.

So in 10 years, despite plenty of coverage of this case, not one single person at that party has spoken about it? Not one? No one that was there has been at all interested in a major missing person's case when they were one of the last people to see her alive? Really?

I am convinced that this point that there was not a party that night. Something went down between Kate, Sarah and Maura that they have sworn to secrecy.

 

[scoops]

Check out the latest post on Renner's blog. I am starting to think that there was no "party" that Saturday night. Only two people in the whole world have ever even spoken about it, and both have lied about where it was.

So in 10 years, despite plenty of coverage of this case, not one single person at that party has spoken about it? Not one? No one that was there has been at all interested in a major missing person's case when they were one of the last people to see her alive? Really?

I am convinced that this point that there was not a party that night. Something went down between Kate, Sarah and Maura that they have sworn to secrecy.

I don't find anything compelling to point towards there not having been a "get together" that Saturday night.

The "party" over the years (depending on who has reported about it) has been described as a few friends getting together, it has never been described as a big campus wide party. That's the first point.

As far as the dorm situation goes, family spokespeople over the years have consistently stated that the get together was not in Maura's dorm but one nearby and the dorm that Sarah Alfieri lived in (girl who hosted the get-together that night) indeed lived in a dorm right next to Maura's.

So at some point, the wording in one of the news reports got a little sloppy.

But the information has really not changed over the years about the get-together between a handful of people.

So, no big revelation discovered, IMO.