Found Deceased OH - Harley Dilly, 14, walking to Port Clinton High School, 20 Dec 2019 #5

[Spellbound]

What the heck was that about a bloody Sledgehammer,and crime scene tape, and the garage,and a couch???????? Ummm can we get an investigative journalist on here to verify?

is there any clear evidence of a “bloody” sledgehammer? All I found in MSM was that a sledgehammer was seen by reporters —- which (to me) would possibly have been brought by the searchers in order to remove a brick encased “chimney” area or any other impediment to reaching a body.

Police planning to update public on missing 14-year-old
Port Clinton police, the coroner and BCI were on the scene of the vacant home for more than seven hours.

Bags of evidence and a sledgehammer were spotted on the scene of the search.

 

[Spellbound]

I read that, too. But I find that pretty hard to believe if the house was built in the 1800's. I wonder if the house has been in family forever.

Eta: especially since it has a brick chimney at the center of the house.

we live in a house built @ 1875 and it never had fireplaces. It did have wood burning stoves at one time. The “stack” was still covered with bricks through our upstairs bedroom (had been removed on the first floor living room areas when we moved here). It was a difficult job to remove the bricks from the upper bedroom and the above-attic, but I did it, bucket by bucket.

 

[Stripehaven]

I would imagine the coat was photographed and documented where it was found by LE, then hung up by an officer wearing gloves for further photographs. Imo.

And the jacket may have been lying where it was in the way of those trying to get to Harley. Better to hang it up out of the way than move it elsewhere on the floor where it might gather more debris or “evidence.”

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

They were at many many locations more than once.

And wherever he would have been found, people could say '... Because Yeah He was there the whole time....'

That is what one could say wherever he was found. 'why didnt they look there before:? He was there the whole time'

The searchers cannot win. Finding a young boy is a combination of luck and perseverance. There are way more hidey holes and crawl spaces than there are resources available. They can only do what they can do. And even then, they go at it wholeheartedly, against all odds.

At the end, they are met with critical backlash---why didn't they look in the chimney weeks ago, those lazy idiots....? Fire the chief!

Yet Harley pulled a num skull move. It's all on Harley. Not the grown ups in charge. Who A. Didn't answer call from school, didn't report him missing for almost two days, and didn't check the house. In spite of all the people who suggested doing exactly that. Check empty,vacant,rental homes,check empty vacant,rental,vacation homes,check empty,vacant,vacation,rental, homes. I'm sorry but poor Harley can't win. Not even in death. That is who this all about, who we are all here for.
Again I'm sorry. But that is the truth. :*(

 

[x_files]

It’s only been mentioned by Harley in one of his YouTube videos from over a year ago. Nothing has been reported in MSM that I’ve seen.

ETA video/link

UltimateGamingJr

Thank you. I have no idea if we are allowed to discuss his youtube videos or not. According to him it happened.

 

[K9Enzo]

ITA. Once they did finally decide to check it out, they got permission Right away. Without protest,or question. One thing I would like to know is did the sniffer dogs lead them to that house, when they were searching with them??????? IIRC didn't the chief say they went over there more than once. Just how many times did they go over there???? How many times did he block searches,say we got this???? Give us a couple more days?????

Search dogs & the decision not to let volunteer searches help. This is sometimes a tough call. You would think more hands on deck the better. IMO, sometimes that’s not the case at all. IMO, untrained volunteer searchers can inadvertently remove, miss or destroy valuable clues such as footprints or dropped articles. Generally, you want them away from the major search area, especially the PLS of the missing.

Sometimes untrained volunteers will be asked to help with passing out flyers away from the major search area or locals will be asked to provide knowledge of the search area. Dogs are trained to work in contaminated search areas, because it happens often, but it’s always best in many cases to ask for non-trained folks to stand down. Also, untrained volunteer searchers can be a liability if they are hurt or commit a crime during a search (example: trespassing / breaking and entering).

When to call in the search dogs? IMO, that depends on the case and the risk in front of you. A small child that wandered off? Fast deployment of dogs. Someone with dementia or Alzheimer’s that left on foot? Fast deployment of dogs. Strong suspicion or evidence a crime has been committed? Fast deployment of dogs. A teen who did not show for school and may have a history of not coming home for short periods of time or being where they are not supposed to be…. This might not result in a hasty deployment of dogs.

What the dogs did or did not indicate on during a search – we may never know. Some LE agencies will release limited information given to them by handlers, most will not. All my opinion.

 

[Periwinkl3]

No. They're unlikely to say anything is 100%

However they are still being pretty non-committal. Why would it still be an open investigation if they've ruled it accidental ? Case would be closed, no? "We've completed our investigation."

But that's not what we're hearing.
It leaves it open to speculation. And IMO it doesn't seem right for people here to be shouting down those that believe that this isn't over.

Thank you for your sane post. MHO is that Port Clinton is not a place where kids go missing regularly, and they're not used to giving pressers with national coverage. And because PD was familiar with the family and grandfather was ex-LE, the PCPD probably was careful to be as thorough as they could. In the presser after they found HD, the chief seemed to be trying to control his emotions. At the end, a reporter yells something to him, and his answer is something like this: they just lost their 14 y/o son, how would you feel? It's the kind of answer we think ourselves when the media asks idiotic questions about deaths, not the answer of someone picking his words in front of the camera. I'm not getting conspiracy here.

 

[lindaromas]

I just like to argue.

But, you argue so well MG!

 

[Faebray]

I've been on WS for a year or so, mainly just lurk. This case was the very first that I have read every single word on every thread, including all links and videos. This whole thing breaks my heart to pieces. Just everything from the delay in reporting him missing to where he was ultimately found.

There are a few things that have been on my mind:
If this was some tragic accident I couldn't imagine the guilt the parents will forever live with. Knowing you haven't physically seen your son in over 40 hours and in that time you were a town over having food, drinks, and fun all while your son is missing and there may have been something you could have done. Now that we have an idea of what happened it probably wouldn't have mattered anyways, he was more than likely gone by the time school was over. But They will always live with the "what-ifs". And I couldn't even imagine that.
If it wasn't an accident and he was put there, I hope that person Groundhog Days the worst moment of their life over and over and over again.

Half of me can totally see a 14 year old boy getting himself into this kind of mischievous adventure turned tragic accident, but the other half think somehow someway somebody put him in there. I do not understand how his jacket and glasses made it out of the flue without being forced or it opened from inside the house. The ones I have seen in person are made of black sheet metal cut in a circle and either slide to the side or on a spring that pops it up. It would take some force to get it open and something through, not like an open hole. Unless since it was in the middle of a remodel, there were no covers. I can fit pretty much everything into it being an accident besides that. I can see the force of a baseball being dropped down opening it. But not something light as a puffy jacket and a pair of eyeglasses. I do hope that LEO does decide to release a bit more information so all these rumors can be put to rest.

I also feel some of the criticisms of LOE is justified and some is going way over the line. Over the line is what that lady said in the Sandusky Register calling for his resignation and slamming him that hard in the press. Absolutely some things should have been handled different. It feels as if there are only half truths being told. But that does not mean they didn't do their jobs. They did look for him a hell of a lot more than what some children in this same situation ever got. How many agencies did they have involved? From the get go ( or at least from what I could tell) the chief knew this may have been way too much, and he called in the big guns. None of them thought to check that house before either. The chief is obviously emotional over what has happened to Harley, you can tell he was fighting back tears in the PC of the announcement of his death. I do think some things should have been handled differently, especially surrounding social media, but the people saying he should be fired, IMO, are just throwing their hurt at him and hoping it will stick. I don't think he deserves it. I see people have dug up stuff about his past and there is an article going around about how he failed his leadership assessment (btw I didn't even see anything in that article about his leadership assessment), I feel that some of the media and reporting are digging hard to find a story. I am not saying he hasn't done questionable stuff in his past, but how does that directly coincide with the investigation surrounding Harley. I'm going to keep an open mind about the chief until I have seen more concrete evidence that he screwed the investigation up.

I know there is not a set and right way to grieve. I don't even know how I would act if something like this happened to one of my children. My oldest is 10, and she's a good kid. Now, my 4 year old son I can see some crazy teenage days coming from him. So I try really hard not to judge other parents. Being a parent is so freaking HARD, no matter how some people try to project they're perfect and so are their kids. But, I don't know, the post from the mom just struck me as so... weird? She keeps complaining/lashing out at social media, which I understand, but she is fueling the fire with her words. I feel like she needs to take a step FB/SM until things are calmed down. People will back up if there is nothing to attack. I find a lot of what she said in that post as very strange. But, as I said I've never been through this so I'm trying hard not to read things into the wording and her choice of words. If this was just some crazy accident I hope the Dilly family finds some peace, from SM and from the tragedy that has happened. I do think his mom should take a break from FB for awhile, if for nothing else besides not having people tear apart every word she says. If there is no fuel for a fire, it will go out.

Port Clinton as a whole has a lot of healing ahead of them. I wish I was closer so I could go to the visitation. I wish Harley could see the turn out we all know he will have. He touched so many lives in the last month. I hope he sees the amount of hearts he captured, I just wish the ending was a different.

 

[Falcon500]

They didn’t thoroughly check an unoccupied house within sight of the kid’s home? Until weeks later?

A runaway doesn’t seek refuge in a vacant house on his own street. He might be inside a friends house on the same street. If someone robs a bank the police would be wasting their time searching a drug store next to the bank.

 

[deugirtni]

is there any clear evidence of a “bloody” sledgehammer? All I found in MSM was that a sledgehammer was seen by reporters —- which (to me) would possibly have been brought by the searchers in order to remove a brick encased “chimney” area or any other impediment to reaching a body.

Police planning to update public on missing 14-year-old
Port Clinton police, the coroner and BCI were on the scene of the vacant home for more than seven hours.

Bags of evidence and a sledgehammer were spotted on the scene of the search.

At the same time the article at the link is saying that 'a sledgehammer was spotted on the scene' (which in my mind might lead readers to consider that something nefarious had gone on inside involving a sledgehammer) , the news reporter on the video is saying that police BROUGHT in a sledgehammer. Fake news at its finest. imo.

at 1:03

"We also saw an investigator take a sledgehammer inside, but we don't know what that was being used for and so far police aren't sharing what they have found if they found anything at all."

 

[deugirtni]

A runaway doesn’t seek refuge in a vacant house on his own street. He might be inside a friends house on the same street. If someone robs a bank the police would be wasting their time searching a drug store next to the bank.

The circumstances didn't really indicate, imho, that poor H was a runaway, but rather that he simply didn't want to go to school that day for whatever reason. In light of that indication, which is based on what we've been told the interaction was between H and his mom early that morning, it would have perhaps been prudent to at least *begin* the search by checking out places where a teen could possibly 'hole up' for a few hours, rather than 'the rest of the world', which might be considered if he was a runaway or kidnapped. imo.

 

[Falcon500]

The circumstances didn't really indicate, imho, that poor H was a runaway, but rather that he simply didn't want to go to school that day for whatever reason. In light of that indication, which is based on what we've been told the interaction was between H and his mom early that morning, it would have perhaps been prudent to at least *begin* the search by checking out places where a teen could possibly 'hole up' for a few hours, rather than 'the rest of the world', which might be considered if he was a runaway or kidnapped. imo.

If a 14 year old boy doesn’t show up for school he a truant and it’s not really cause for concern. If an eight year old boy doesn’t show up for school then that is a cause for concern and would be considered “missing” absent any other facts.

if a 14 year old girl doesn’t show up for school then that is a cause for concern. An eight year old girl? It’s a big deal.

The police have to play the percentages and rely on what has happened in the past. They can’t be expected to suspend all operations when a 14 year old boy (who was known to them) is gone for two days. The more logical place to look would be a bowling alley in Toledo.

 

[firebird]

If a 14 year old boy doesn’t show up for school he a truant and it’s not really cause for concern. If an eight year old boy doesn’t show up for school then that is a cause for concern and would be considered “missing” absent any other facts.

if a 14 year old girl doesn’t show up for school then that is a cause for concern. An eight year old girl? It’s a big deal.

The police have to play the percentages and rely on what has happened in the past. They can’t be expected to suspend all operations when a 14 year old boy (who was known to them) is gone for two days. The more logical place to look would be a bowling alley in Toledo.

Was just going to post something similar. Especially since his mom knew Harley didn't want to go to school in the first place and it was just days or less to the Christmas break.

 

[deugirtni]

It’s been reported that the owners have said there has never been a fireplace in the house. There were stoves that piped exhaust to the chimney. I’ll try to find the link.

ETA link ‘Our family is heartbroken over this’: Owner of home where Harley Dilly’s body was found speaks out

I'm not seeing or hearing the part where the homeowner says "there has 'never' been a fireplace in the house"?

From the audio of the homeowner at the link above:

'Jim': "Our family is heartbroken over this, not just because it was in our house but cuz of the, the outcome is not what everyone hoped for."

Reporter: This is the Port Clinton home where the body of fourteen year old Harley Dilly was discovered inside a chimney Monday evening, across the street from where he lived.

Reporter: The owners, who are in their 80s, live in Avon. Their son Jim, who asked that we not use his last name, spoke to us by phone.

'Jim': "Our hearts, thoughts and prayers go out to the Dilly family and the uh, the whole Port Clinton area."

Reporter: Jim says the home has belonged to his family since it was built back in 1852, but no one has lived in it fulltime for many years. The family occasionally uses it as a weekend vacation home during the summer and it was under renovation. He says no one had been inside since mid November.

'Jim': "I was quite confident that there was no way anybody got in that house, they would've been able to tell, cuz it was se..., it was pretty secure."

Reporter: Jim says he and his parents were stunned when Port Clinton police called Monday asking for keys to get inside and information about the home's layout and renovation details.

Reporter: He says it would be extremely difficult to enter the home through the chimney as police believe Harley tried to do.

'Jim': "There was no openings in that chimney other than, like, eight inch diameter openings in different places."

Reporter: He also says the home does *not* have a fireplace.

Jim: "The chimney hasn't been used in years, so, there used to be a gas stove that went into it and there's been nothing since."

‘Our family is heartbroken over this’: Owner of home where Harley Dilly’s body was found speaks out

 

[firebird]

I'm not seeing or hearing the part where the homeowner says "there has 'never' been a fireplace in the house"?

From the audio of the homeowner at the link above:

'Jim': "Our family is heartbroken over this, not just because it was in our house but cuz of the, the outcome is not what everyone hoped for."

Reporter: This is the Port Clinton home where the body of fourteen year old Harley Dilly was discovered inside a chimney Monday evening, across the street from where he lived.

Reporter: The owners, who are in their 80s, live in Avon. Their son Jim, who asked that we not use his last name, spoke to us by phone.

'Jim': "Our hearts, thoughts and prayers go out to the Dilly family and the uh, the whole Port Clinton area."

Reporter: Jim says the home has belonged to his family since it was built back in 1852, but no one has lived in it fulltime for many years. The family occasionally uses it as a weekend vacation home during the summer and it was under renovation. He says no one had been inside since mid November.

'Jim': "I was quite confident that there was no way anybody got in that house, they would've been able to tell, cuz it was se..., it was pretty secure."

Reporter: Jim says he and his parents were stunned when Port Clinton police called Monday asking for keys to get inside and information about the home's layout and renovation details.

Reporter: He says it would be extremely difficult to enter the home through the chimney as police believe Harley tried to do.

'Jim': "There was no openings in that chimney other than, like, eight inch diameter openings in different places."

Reporter: He also says the home does *not* have a fireplace.

Jim: "The chimney hasn't been used in years, so, there used to be a gas stove that went into it and there's been nothing since."

‘Our family is heartbroken over this’: Owner of home where Harley Dilly’s body was found speaks out

Thanks for finding this. I should know better than not to do my own "research" This house was built in 1850 according to Zillow. So while it's possible it never had a fireplace, it's more likely imo that it didn't have a working fireplace in Jim's lifetime. Maybe that's one of the interesting (to me) little details that will be cleared up as the investigation is completed.

 

[deugirtni]

Thanks for finding this. I should know better than not to do my own "research" This house was built in 1850 according to Zillow. So while it's possible it never had a fireplace, it's more likely imo that it didn't have a working fireplace in Jim's lifetime. Maybe that's one of the interesting (to me) little details that will be cleared up as the investigation is completed.

I hope so. I can understand how the whole house may have originally had a 'coal stove' in the basement.. providing warmth up to the floors upstairs somehow.. but then again, not sure they had that kind of 'central heating' in the mid 1800s. And if they had a wood stove or an old kitchen cast iron wood stove, would they have also had one on the second/top floor? Still very confused about this. I don't think they had 'gas stoves' like Jim mentioned, in 1852? My point was just that for myself, I'm not hearing the word 'never' coming from the homeowner's mouth, nor even seeing it quoted anywhere.

 

[firebird]

My point was just that for myself, I'm not hearing the word 'never' coming from the homeowner's mouth, nor even seeing it quoted anywhere.

Right. I'm not trying to drag you into the great fireplace/no fireplace debate

 

[Seajay]

They say there is no more of a painful surgery- I’m so sorry you went through that, I hope you are 100% well now.

Thank you. I had residual shooting pains that come and go. I also have numbness in parts of it because of nerves that were cut. It’s just weird. It’s taken forever to recover.

I raise and train working dogs, and this is perhaps why I am stuck on this case.
I am not prone to conspiracy theories, I do however have a healthy sceptics streak.
The only dogs I have seen reported as used were cadaver dogs. And that was in a search of the Dilly's home.
I don't see any mention of tracking dogs on the ground... Not that it would have mattered since the chief admitted once he saw the house was secure he believed it of no further interest.
A good cadaver dog can smell decades old bones through 20,' of earth. So had they searched the perimeter with the dogs it's possible they would have indicated but wether the handler could have worked out where the dog was indicating depends. Some handlers are amazingly intuitive others less so.
There are red flags with regards to the investigation and I believe there was negligence in this case. I am not here bashing anyone, just asking pertinent questions. Plenty of cases have appeared cut n dry then weren't some appeared hinky and weren't. I apreciate ppl don't like asking awkward questions it makes them uncomfortable, doesn't bother me though, which brings me back to why we are still here. I know why I am.

Interesting. What do you think could have been done differently that would have resulted in a different outcome?

Do you think someone took Harley to that house and stuffed him in the chimney? Do you think other kids were involved who ran when he got stuck?

Harley was probably already dead by the time anyone realized he was missing and wounded the alarm, so finding him earlier would not have saved his life.

I’m interested to hear your ideas of what would have made a difference. MOO

 

[Seattle1]

Thank you. I have no idea if we are allowed to discuss his youtube videos or not. According to him it happened.

Anybody including a teen can tell a good story when they're the only one telling it. I hope all are taking that into account when viewing the videos.