VERDICT WATCH OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered - 4 Wagner Family Members Arrested #85

[Pru2U]

I agree with you. I would want to hear that interview. What I don't understand is how Canepa could reference it in her questioning without it being in evidence.

It may have been admitted into evidence, we just didn't hear it. Who flipping knows? That audio has been one of the biggest mysteries AND disappointments, both by the hands of the prosecution.

 

[Cool Cats]

That made me smile! No prejudice there at all.

I went back and added a little bit more to that post. What do you mean no prejudice?

 

[TopHat123]

Lurker, first post
George is charged with murder plus about 20 other things related to the case. If there’s a hung jury or if they find him not guilty in the first charge for (*I think* the jury’s options are Murder 1, Murder 2 or Manslaughter), can’t they still find him guilty on some (or all, or most) of those other counts? In which case he’d likely get sentenced to time in prison (minus time served, I’d think),
Because if the jury members can’t agree if he did any literal murdering, they could “compromise” by finding him guilty of many of those other charge, is that right?

Welcome!

Yes they can.

The charges include:
8 counts of Aggravated Murder
Felony conspiracy
Aggravated burglary
Unlawful possession of a dangerous ordinance
Tampering with evidence
Forgery
Unauthorized use of property
Interception of wire and oral communications
Obstruction of justice
Engaging in a pattern of corrupt activ

Thsnk

Welcome!

Yes they can.

The charges include:
8 counts of Aggravated Murder
Felony conspiracy
Aggravated burglary
Unlawful possession of a dangerous ordinance
Tampering with evidence
Forgery
Unauthorized use of property
Interception of wire and oral communications
Obstruction of justice
Engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity

Thank you!
I think jurors aren’t supposed to compromise, but I think they probably do

 

[Myland]

Jmo they can’t even convict on count 22 corrupt activity because the indictment has specific dates and he didn’t admit to crimes in those dates. I could find him guilty of forgery. Jmo the state had a narrow time frame in their indictment. They may get him on guns depending on purchase date. Jmo

 

[Pru2U]

Lurker, first post
George is charged with murder plus about 20 other things related to the case. If there’s a hung jury or if they find him not guilty in the first charge for (*I think* the jury’s options are Murder 1, Murder 2 or Manslaughter), can’t they still find him guilty on some (or all, or most) of those other counts? In which case he’d likely get sentenced to time in prison (minus time served, I’d think),
Because if the jury members can’t agree if he did any literal murdering, they could “compromise” by finding him guilty of many of those other charge, is that right?

Thsnk

Thank you!
I think jurors aren’t supposed to compromise, but I think they probably do

They have to address each charge regardless. He may be found guilty of one thing but not another, so it's not really a compromise.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Jmo they can’t even convict on count 22 corrupt activity because the indictment has specific dates and he didn’t admit to crimes in those dates. I could find him guilty of forgery. Jmo the state had a narrow time frame in their indictment.

What about Racketeering crime, I might be wrong how I’m pronounced it but he has a history of a lifetime of crime! JMO

 

[Pru2U]

I went back and added a little bit more to that post. What do you mean no prejudice?

The "explain he is a menace to society" part made me laugh.

 

[Betty P]

Last comment on this from me about whether Audio of George at the border. Video at Day 21 part 2 L&C at 52:10 it starts and another poster posted that link as well at last thread post #858. Ryan explained that by law it is REQUIRED to Audio (at least) record the interviews. Period! IMO if there was no Audio of George, that could be a technicality to get this case thrown out. And Ryan clearly states they did Audio record the interviews. IANAL but I believe there's Audio of George's Interview for these reasons. I would need to HEAR this audio that Angela C kept referencing to George but would not PLAY nor would she provide him the TRANSCRIPT when he defended what she said he said by saying "that's not what I said" (my words but to that effect). If I need it, I think some on the jury may need it too. My opinion at this point is he may not have been involved in the planning and he may not have been involved in the execution - I find it hard to believe he didn't know about it after the fact but I don't think that has been proven IMO. And I think that by law he is not required to rat out a family member. I see reasonable doubt. By who am I? I'm not on the jury so we shall see. IANAL IANAL IANAL IMO IMO IMO. HA HA

George’s attorneys have had the audio news transcripts for a couple of years now. It’s their job to ensure he has that information. AC refusing to provide it to him during cross examination was the correct move. She she shouldn’t give him evidence during cross that he can use to modify his testimony to ensure it matches the evidence. My impression is that there are incriminating statements in that interview and defense wants to find an excuse to get it thrown out, hence the bickering over how it was recorded. JMO. IANAL

 

[Myland]

What about Racketeering crime, I might be wrong how I’m pronounced it but he has a history of a lifetime of crime! JMO

What count is that? Is it 22?

 

[Chelly]

Welcome!

Yes they can.

The charges include:
8 counts of Aggravated Murder
Felony conspiracy
Aggravated burglary
Unlawful possession of a dangerous ordinance
Tampering with evidence
Forgery
Unauthorized use of property
Interception of wire and oral communications
Obstruction of justice
Engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity

Thanks for posting the charges. We know that all 12 jurors must unanimously agree, beyond reasonable doubt on their verdict. So, IF jury believes prosecutors have not provided evidence to convict GW4 of murder, they may settle on lesser charges.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

What count is that? Is it 22?

Like same thing they charge people like Crime Boss with! Or would that be a federal charge

 

[justtrish]

I have a feeling most of the jurors know the Wagner family and know they’re habitual criminals and liars. After they violently murdered 8 innocent people, they probably look forward to having them permanently locked away.

What a menace they’ve been to the community, to local businesses and the economy. GW4 didn’t seem at all bothered or apologetic about his lifetime of criminal behavior.

The amount of poaching, arson and theft they’ve committed is staggering. I still don’t understand how they got away with so much insurance fraud.

I think it will come down to believability of the witnesses. Do they believe George or do they believe every other witness that got on the stand. Do they believe George when he said all those recordings where he's saying things like Jake should have burned the laptop, he wants to kill Agent Scheiderer, he won't back down, won't crumble, etc all of that was simply because he thought BCI was framing his family. Also do they believe he knew NOTHING until Jake confessed.

I heard someone that was in the courtroom watching all the testimony say they think the defense was preparing George to get on the stand from the day Jake confessed. They knew it would come down to that. I can see that now. They also said Jake was very matter of fact and straight in his testimony, no thinking or confusion, very believable as well.
Look at the witnesses they called.


Pastors who knew him long time ago and barely saw him in Alaska even though they were close before. (also interesting is the pastor thought they were a good church family and they were all committing crimes at that point so clearly they hid their true selves well when it benefited them)

His boss in Alaska

Tattoo guy

Guy who owned the lot their stuff was stored on

divorce lawyer

Expert that was barely communicated with the defense and only had a draft report done, didn't even receive all the evidence, and was only notified 10 days before he testified that they were even using him in court. From June when he gave them the draft report he didn't hear from them until end of Oct.

Now it makes sense they were calling George because all these people did was say George was a nice guy. Since the defense was going with the George didn't know until Jake confessed argument, what else could they have done but put George on the stand. All those other witnesses they subpoenaed were for nothing, not part of any defense. I was wondering how they could call drug guys and other LE people to get a different version if their defense was he wasn't there and didn't know anything until April 2021.

 

[Betty P]

Welcome!

Yes they can.

The charges include:
8 counts of Aggravated Murder
Felony conspiracy
Aggravated burglary
Unlawful possession of a dangerous ordinance
Tampering with evidence
Forgery
Unauthorized use of property
Interception of wire and oral communications
Obstruction of justice
Engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity

If he’s found guilty of conspiracy and/or Aggravated Burglary, he is automatically considered guilty of Aggravated Murder. In Ohio, Aggravated Murder is defined as “causing” the death of a person. That includes being part of the conspiracy to plan it or being present at the scene of the crime when it happens. Under conspiracy, you don’t have to be present at the scene. Like Charles Manson.

 

[Myland]

Like same thing they charge people like Crime Boss with! Or would that be a federal charge

No what I was saying is count 22 referencing Rico? Because it has a specific time frame.

 

[Myland]

https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/Files/Briefing-Room/News-Releases/Special-Prosecutions/PikeCountyMurderIndictments.aspx

Oops this is Billy’s. Now I know how the accountant felt.

 

[rescuemom]

All JMO,this is a huge disappointment for any who have followed from the beginning. You have 4 suspects, 8 murders and 4 crime scenes. I don't know how it could have been presented differently. The jury needed the backstory, the family dynamics and the 6+ years of investigation. IMO, there was still more to be presented.

I'm surprised the defense did not call more witnesses, like FW or RW but then they may have been pulled in to the case and they didn't want that.

I know the defense does not have to prove innocence but I think it was a mistake to put GW on the stand. The jury has a tremendous amount of evidence to look at but wouldn't you, if you were on the jury already have a gut feel of what happened and who is guilty of the crimes? Anyone think the trial came to an abrupt halt for whatever reason?? You name it.

 

[Myland]

If he’s found guilty of conspiracy and/or Aggravated Burglary, he is automatically considered guilty of Aggravated Murder. In Ohio, Aggravated Murder is defined as “causing” the death of a person. That includes being part of the conspiracy to plan it or being present at the scene of the crime when it happens. Under conspiracy, you don’t have to be present at the scene. Like Charles Manson.

Jmo I didn’t see one piece of evidence on the plan except loaning Billy money to buy truck. Truck that was purchased in the driveway on Peterson.

 

[Cool Cats]

The "explain he is a menace to society" part made me laugh.

He himself admitted he was a menace to society. He admitted he is a criminal and there were victims in those crimes. Truck drivers lost jobs because of his robberies, businesses and individuals lost merchandise and their money from crimes he did with his family. When he involved himself in any crimes committed by The Wagner Crime Family there were innocent victims that lost something.

Criminals are a menace to society. No normal person would want to live near him.

He showed zero remorse for any of it. No "I'm sorry my crimes hurt others."
No "I would never do that again."

 

[rescuemom]

If he’s found guilty of conspiracy and/or Aggravated Burglary, he is automatically considered guilty of Aggravated Murder. In Ohio, Aggravated Murder is defined as “causing” the death of a person. That includes being part of the conspiracy to plan it or being present at the scene of the crime when it happens. Under conspiracy, you don’t have to be present at the scene. Like Charles Manson.

Thanks Betty P for refreshing my memory on this. If the jury keeps this at the forefront, that will do it.

 

[gizmobtj]

So if Bullvine was supposed to be poison at the border by The BCI, why did Billy, Angela and George himself set in the vehicle for over an hour waiting on Jake and Suds to come out from there interview????

Wasn't it SW who told them they had given Bullvine some medicine Kool aid?