OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered - 4 Wagner Family Members Arrested #87

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justtrish said:
I agree and would add the fact that bigger decisions seemed to focus on the family unit, the wives/significant others and the kids. Those things seemed to really spark this united front even when personalities clashed and when even Billy didn't live there, they still came together to, in their minds, save the kids from whatever it was they felt was the threat.
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No outsider had a voice, especially the wives.
 
Piffcat said:
the whole extended rhoden/gilley/manley family are a beacon of immense grace and courage . their steadfast discipline and cooperation with bci was incredible. even AFTER danas brother was falsley arrested they still stood strong. leonard just broke my heart in every interview but even with all that pain he stopped short of compromising the case in anyway. i cant imagine having 8 family members slaughtered and having both your daughter and son accused of such a horrendous crime. yet thats just what happened to leonard due to wagners tampering after the fact. its a tragedy he did not live to see g4 go down. <modsnip: off topic/LE unfriendly>
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How the victims’ family members handled this crime is amazing. An example of tolerance, dignity, and grace. They dealt with a double assault on their family with LE investigating the Manleys. TR was great, also. How they kept quiet in court is beyond my ability, I believe. I am sure they will all be rewarded in the hereafter…
A factual opinion only….
 
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justtrish said:
Not total crickets. I have heard that the jury was afraid or they were always going to vote guilty because they had to make someone pay or they discussed it before they should have so it must have been something shady in the process because George is just an innocent man that everyone was against. BCI was framing him, the prosecution would take nothing less than all 4 so they made Jake and Angela say George was involved, Jake and Angela just wanted to pin it on George also and so on . It can't be that he is actually guilty of conspiracy, forging documents, burglary, etc.
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I have read the same claims. Can’t say what I think about those claims.
My opinions only…
 
Piffcat said:
the whole extended rhoden/gilley/manley family are a beacon of immense grace and courage . their steadfast discipline and cooperation with bci was incredible. even AFTER danas brother was falsley arrested they still stood strong. leonard just broke my heart in every interview but even with all that pain he stopped short of compromising the case in anyway. i cant imagine having 8 family members slaughtered and having both your daughter and son accused of such a horrendous crime. yet thats just what happened to leonard due to wagners tampering after the fact. its a tragedy he did not live to see g4 go down. <modsnip: off topic/LE unfriendly>
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When was Dana's brother falsely arrested? As I recall he was arrested for destruction of government property which he actually admitted to committing.
 
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Dudly said:
I have read the same claims. Can’t say what I think about those claims.
My opinions only…
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Jmo I don’t think the jury was afraid. I spoke to a friend of mine that was a juror after the verdict of course and the thing that stood out to me was how they talked about the pictures, not the evidence but the pictures. Jmo
 
iridized said:
When was Dana's brother falsely arrested? As I recall he was arrested for destruction of government property which he actually admitted to committing.
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The focus on James Manley and his sister was a huge mistake, one spurred on by "tips" from the killers themselves - Jake and (probably) Angela Wagner. They decided to frame the Manley's before the murders, JMO. Wasted a lot of time. Hope everyone learned something from that mistake.

I was disgusted to hear some of the Wagners who testified in court still attempting to blame the Manleys for the murders.
 
Skully67 said:
Gw4 will get a chance on appeal to point out any errors in the case.

I think what convicted him was the overwhelming evidence of how the family operated as a unit. They may not have known every aspect of each other's lives, but when it came to big things, I think they operated together to make things happen.

This is my humble and uneducated opinion only.
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Same here. The family enmeshment, hearing George talk to Angie on the last wiretaps and the shoes did it for me. Everything about the shoes pointed to Jake & George, from the purchase to waiting in the car to the footprints at the crime scene.

I feel bad for George, he did step to a different drummer in the family but I keep going back to one thing: George had several opportunities to leave; both before and after the murders. He chose to stay.
 
Pru2U said:
Same here. The family enmeshment, hearing George talk to Angie on the last wiretaps and the shoes did it for me. Everything about the shoes pointed to Jake & George, from the purchase to waiting in the car to the footprints at the crime scene.

I feel bad for George, he did step to a different drummer in the family but I keep going back to one thing: George had several opportunities to leave; both before and after the murders. He chose to stay.
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I still don't understand why there are so many posts saying " I feel bad for George."

He wasn't a different drummer in his family I don't think. All you have to do is listen to the negative "Angie like" words that came out of his mouth on BCI recordings. Cutting down women and I think he even used a derogatory term towards his 3/4 year old neice.

Saying "the family has spoken" in trying to get rid of Jake's wife, hating her and Tabitha, running them down, even judging and running down his ow family. Believing his mom's every lie about Jake's wife. Wanting to bring hell on Tabby if she was at the border to see her son.

Hatching a plan with Angela and sticking to a date to "prove" Tabby "abandoned" her son when she did not. Keeping the son away from Tabby, using a fake address and not telling her they were back in Ohio and so on...

Happily participating in truck robberies while at the same time admitting that it was costing truckers their jobs.

Everyone but him is a liar and remembers things wrong. He is better than his horrible family according to him yet he stayed with them long after being employed. He went along with Angie hook line and sinker. He is more like Angie as I think Wilson stated.

Killing innocent animals illegally and being proud of it.

Telling his son BCI wants to kill the family for no reason because BCI agents are bad.

Etc...........Terrible temper, threats to hurt investigators just doing their jobs, shouting yelling ...so much more.
 
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Cool Cats said:
I still don't understand why there are so many posts saying " I feel bad for George."

He wasn't a different drummer in his family I don't think. All you have to do is listen to the negative "Angie like" words that came out of his mouth on BCI recordings. Cutting down women and I think he even used a derogatory term towards his 3/4 year old neice.

Saying "the family has spoken" in trying to get rid of Jake's wife, hating her and Tabitha, running them down, even judging and running down his ow family. Believing his mom's every lie about Jake's wife. Wanting to bring hell on Tabby if she was at the border to see her son.

Hatching a plan with Angela and sticking to a date to "prove" Tabby "abandoned" her son when she did not. Keeping the son away from Tabby, using a fake address and not telling her they were back in Ohio and so on...

Happily participating in truck robberies while at the same time admitting that it was costing truckers their jobs.

Everyone but him is a liar and remembers things wrong. He is better than his horrible family according to him yet he stayed with them long after being employed. He went along with Angie hook line and sinker. He is more like Angie as I think Wilson stated.

Killing innocent animals illegally and being proud of it.

Telling his son BCI wants to kill the family for no reason because BCI agents are bad.

Etc...........Terrible temper, threats to hurt investigators just doing their jobs, shouting yelling ...so much more.
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I feel for Jake and George for how they grew up and that is it. I think George is just as evil as Jake. Jake just took the stand to tell exactly what happened and what he did so he is hated and seen as maybe the "most evil" because he was stone cold when testifying. He had no emotion, etc. I think he's medicated and this is how he copes with what he did. I don't see him as being even more evil than any of the other 3 I just think he gets seen that way because George just deny, deny, and blame everyone and everything else. He is seen as someone to feel sorry for and people still wonder if he is innocent. I don't, but some do so I imagine they might feel sorry for him. George refusing to tell the truth is what has cost the taxpayers millions of dollars to try him in court. He then had the nerve to take the stand and try to fool the jury and the court while also putting the families through a trial. I find that more evil than Jake taking the stand, with no emotion telling the story of what they did. You are right. George is NOT innocent.

I keep coming back to the thought that if any of the could have stopped it, it would have been George and he did nothing. So maybe he wasn't there physically that night (I believe he 100% was there, with his SKS shooting Chris Sr) but he knew about it before, he knew the bug detector was purchased on his car, he knew that his money went to the murder truck, I think he helped dug a hole to hide the weapons, I think he knowingly purchased a replacement gun for his dad on May 26th, he knew the shoes were bought for them to wear that night and I think he went to the funerals with full knowledge of what his family had done. He got that tattoo knowing his family murdered 8 people and he changed that FB pic because he liked to get a rise out of people. He was doing what he'd always done by hiding in plain sight and he thought they got away with it.
 
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justtrish said:
I feel for Jake and George for how they grew up and that is it. I think George is just as evil as Jake. Jake just took the stand to tell exactly what happened and what he did so he is hated and seen as maybe the "most evil" because he was stone cold when testifying. He had no emotion, etc. I think he's medicated and this is how he copes with what he did. I don't see him as being even more evil than any of the other 3 I just think he gets seen that way because George just deny, deny, and blame everyone and everything else. He is seen as someone to feel sorry for and people still wonder if he is innocent. I don't, but some do so I imagine they might feel sorry for him. George refusing to tell the truth is what has cost the taxpayers millions of dollars to try him in court. He then had the nerve to take the stand and try to fool the jury and the court while also putting the families through a trial. I find that more evil than Jake taking the stand, with no emotion telling the story of what they did. You are right. George is NOT innocent.

I keep coming back to the thought that if any of the could have stopped it, it would have been George and he did nothing. So maybe he wasn't there physically that night (I believe he 100% was there, with his SKS shooting Chris Sr) but he knew about it before, he knew the bug detector was purchased on his car, he knew that his money went to the murder truck, I think he helped dug a hole to hide the weapons, I think he knowingly purchased a replacement gun for his dad on May 26th, he knew the shoes were bought for them to wear that night and I think he went to the funerals with full knowledge of what his family had done. He got that tattoo knowing his family murdered 8 people and he changed that FB pic because he liked to get a rise out of people. He was doing what he'd always done by hiding in plain sight and he thought they got away with it.
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Well I will concede that I can feel sorry for George when he was an innocent kid being raised and isolated by criminal parents. Even as a young teen it is not unreasonable that he followed his dad's orders to help him commit crimes.

I mean, he was a kid when dad would force him to look for cameras saying he would loose his 4 wheeler privileges for a week if his dad spotted a camera first.

Kids and teens are totally financially dependent on their family for everything but we know when George finally got to drive his own vehicle that he clearly realized that, according to him, he didn't want that life with his family anymore. He was trained as a diesel mechanic in school and had the skills to work and eventually he could have moved out and created his own family. Created a family life different from his upbringing but he chose not to do it.

The George who deliberately chose to stay with his dysfunctional family I can't feel sorry for. The George who deliberately refused to stop 8 murders and who involved himself in his family's murder conspiracy I only have contempt for.

justtrish said:
Defense sentencing memorandum
https://twitter.com/x/status/1603146888664043523
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Thanks!
 
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Thanks @justtrish and @twall

Now we can see the defense "at work" again for George. We can see their weak arguments about why George should have a new trial and see how weak their arguments are for George being sentenced with a chance for parole instead of getting LWOP. How the defense says LWOP is "cruel and unusual and contrary to the dignity of human kind."

We can also see why the prosecution wants George to be sentenced to the maximum amount.

Very interesting to read all this before George's sentencing Monday. Will be very difficult to watch the victim impact statements. I assume we will be able to see and hear all this. I predict LWOP or a sentence so long that it is the same as LWOP.
 
Cool Cats said:
I still don't understand why there are so many posts saying " I feel bad for George."

He wasn't a different drummer in his family I don't think. All you have to do is listen to the negative "Angie like" words that came out of his mouth on BCI recordings. Cutting down women and I think he even used a derogatory term towards his 3/4 year old neice.

Saying "the family has spoken" in trying to get rid of Jake's wife, hating her and Tabitha, running them down, even judging and running down his ow family. Believing his mom's every lie about Jake's wife. Wanting to bring hell on Tabby if she was at the border to see her son.

Hatching a plan with Angela and sticking to a date to "prove" Tabby "abandoned" her son when she did not. Keeping the son away from Tabby, using a fake address and not telling her they were back in Ohio and so on...

Happily participating in truck robberies while at the same time admitting that it was costing truckers their jobs.

Everyone but him is a liar and remembers things wrong. He is better than his horrible family according to him yet he stayed with them long after being employed. He went along with Angie hook line and sinker. He is more like Angie as I think Wilson stated.

Killing innocent animals illegally and being proud of it.

Telling his son BCI wants to kill the family for no reason because BCI agents are bad.

Etc...........Terrible temper, threats to hurt investigators just doing their jobs, shouting yelling ...so much more.
Click to expand...

We can agree to disagree, that’s cool with me. I never said he was innocent, I never said he wasn’t involved. I never said he didn’t deserve punishment. I said he stepped to a different drummer because that’s how several witnesses described him. Several witnesses for the prosecution. I don’t need to argue about it. You heard the same testimony I did.
 
iulia said:
This article is behind a paywall, I think. It mentioned trying to ask the jurors for interviews. Of all they managed to contact, only one juror might be open to do it anonymously, but it sounds like it will be way in the future, so not to interfere with legal actions against the Ws.

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I hope the jurors remain silent until Billy's trial is done and over and then Jake and Angela are sentenced.
 
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