GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #63

[Cool Cats]

Thanks @Cool Cats !

Your welcome.

My impression from that moment is that it was the first time Jake faced that he caused pain to the families.

He always knew but always ignored it. In court he couldn't ignore it.

 

[Betty P]

I saw this too. There was something/someone on that side of the courtroom that was causing Jake some concern. His head snapped around at the second noise. The look in his dead eyes just shouts psychopath to me.

Yes, it was a very surreal moment in the midst of a surreal hearing. And yes, Jake has those dead eyes. He put on a good show of remorse, but as with any murderous psychopath, its safer to assume it was an act.

I doubt any actors or directors on Hollywood could accurately replicate that hearing.

 

[sunshineray]

It could be, but G4 defense has 60 days after they get the proffer to turn over their discovery per the judge and can ask for more time if needed. I feel like something is off with the proffer in some way. No telling what he said in it. With the truths may be some untruths. Maybe they are trying to find that untruth to put the DP back on the table for all and still use his evidence and proffer.

Maybe someone else is considering their own proffer and lawyers are haggling on how to best do it for their client? Just a thought.

 

[Cool Cats]

Maybe someone else is considering their own proffer and lawyers are haggling on how to best do it for their client? Just a thought.

It's my understanding that a proffer is a defendant giving information to get something in return.

Like Jake giving information and in return Canepa and Junk dropped the DP for him and his family.

With the DP off the table there is no reason for any of the other 3 Wagners to give out any information because there is nothing the prosecution is going to give them.

If say Angela doesn't want a trial she doesn't need to give any information to get that, just plead guilty is all.

Is a proffer different from a plea deal or part of the plea deal?

 

[Ann99]

Thinking about the proffer, proffer agreement, whatever terms may be associated with whatever deal Jake and AC came up with and whatever AC plans to do with the information/evidence.
Is it possible or likely that Jake went beyond (better word before) the events of 4/22?
Could Jake, in his attempt to make sense of the activities of the 4 Wagners or to justify or prove their capabilities, have admitted to many prior acts of one
(Billy) or all of the Wagners? Therefore a delay in producing the evidence?
Along with Jake's information, I wonder about possible heavy drug use of the Wagners and if the Wagners ever were clear thinking, and therefore have clear memories.
I'm not making any excuses for them, just thinking of the difficulties of getting to the truth. Facts AC can rely upon.
Final question. Can the various attorney's for the individual Wagners confer with each other, share information?

 

[sunshineray]

It's my understanding that a proffer is a defendant giving information to get something in return.

Like Jake giving information and in return Canepa and Junk dropped the DP for him and his family.

With the DP off the table there is no reason for any of the other 3 Wagners to give out any information because there is nothing the prosecution is going to give them.

If say Angela doesn't want a trial she doesn't need to give any information to get that, just plead guilty is all.

Is a proffer different from a plea deal or part of the plea deal?

Maybe for some, before pleading guilty, its important to where they serve time or how (solitary or general)? Maybe it's the person's plea to not implicate all the others? I'm sure the prosecution wants all or nothing, they hold all the cards. I could picture a senario where AW wouldn't want to proffer against GW4 or visa versa because they want the other to raise the kids.

After what JW has done, I can't see why any attorney wouldn't tell their client, take the deal, you will lose, you will get the death penalty 8 times over.

So I have to believe it's the clients driving the boat to trial. It's beyond me why except maybe a plan to corrupt the process in hopes of a mistrial? I just don't know.

 

[Cool Cats]

Maybe for some, before pleading guilty, its important to where they serve time or how (solitary or general)? Maybe it's the person's plea to not implicate all the others? I'm sure the prosecution wants all or nothing, they hold all the cards. I could picture a senario where AW wouldn't want to proffer against GW4 or visa versa because they want the other to raise the kids.

After what JW has done, I can't see why any attorney wouldn't tell their client, take the deal, you will lose, you will get the death penalty 8 times over.

So I have to believe it's the clients driving the boat to trial. It's beyond me why except maybe a plan to corrupt the process in hopes of a mistrial? I just don't know.

"Maybe for some, before pleading guilty, its important to where they serve time or how (solitary or general)?"

The prosecution has no say on where or how a defendant serves time because that is strictly up to the DOC, Department of Corrections. However, prosecutors can make offers on how much time a defendant gets.

For instance the prosecution can offer to drop one or more charges which then automatically lowers the amount of time a defendant will serve, and they can make deals that would give the defendant a chance at parole vs. LWOP etc...

"After what JW has done, I can't see why any attorney wouldn't tell their client, take the deal, you will lose, you will get the death penalty 8 times over."

I'm sure Jake's attorneys told him to take a plea deal because he will lose at trial and get the DP but that is not the case for the other 3 Wagners.

Billy, Angela and George's attorneys can tell them they will lose at trial but they cannot tell them they will get the DP because the DP has been taken off the table as long as Jake testifies in their trials.

Jake will testify because otherwise he will face a penalty phase trial and of course lose and end up getting the DP which he is desperate to avoid.

Why am I not surprised that it is Billy who wants to see official documents that the DP truly is off the table for him? Why not Angela or George's attorneys making the same request? Oh well, the night is long.

07/19/2021 DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR SPECIFIC PERFORMANCE OF THE PROSECUTION IN DISMISSING THE MURDER SPECIFICATIONS AGAINST DEFENDANT GEORGE WAGNER III (MOTION 51)

Event: ORAL HEARING ON MOTION 51 Date: 09/16/2021 Time: 11:00 AM

https://www.pikecountycpcourt.org/e...ksC2f6ZCESNTC4v3IUtwTpf9sK5Cr-hIBmowzILaLdqcw

• 2018CR000157 STATE OF OHIO -vs- WAGNER, III, GEORGE WASHINGTON

 

[Impurectry]

Anything can be dyed I agree with you also. IMO I don’t believe the Wgs dyed anything. White is easy to get at and no mess at any Home Depot , Walmart .

I agree I don't think they dyed anything. I think they dressed more like Boon dock Saints all in black. Jean, t-shirt long sleeved ones or something similar, ski mask & gloves. Things that could be bought at any store or at a thrift store where it couldn't be traced.
But this is just my opinion and what I think they could of have done.

 

[sunshineray]

"Maybe for some, before pleading guilty, its important to where they serve time or how (solitary or general)?"

The prosecution has no say on where or how a defendant serves time because that is strictly up to the DOC, Department of Corrections. However, prosecutors can make offers on how much time a defendant gets.

For instance the prosecution can offer to drop one or more charges which then automatically lowers the amount of time a defendant will serve, and they can make deals that would give the defendant a chance at parole vs. LWOP etc...

"After what JW has done, I can't see why any attorney wouldn't tell their client, take the deal, you will lose, you will get the death penalty 8 times over."

I'm sure Jake's attorneys told him to take a plea deal because he will lose at trial and get the DP but that is not the case for the other 3 Wagners.

Billy, Angela and George's attorneys can tell them they will lose at trial but they cannot tell them they will get the DP because the DP has been taken off the table as long as Jake testifies in their trials.

Jake will testify because otherwise he will face a penalty phase trial and of course lose and end up getting the DP which he is desperate to avoid.

Why am I not surprised that it is Billy who wants to see official documents that the DP truly is off the table for him? Why not Angela or George's attorneys making the same request? Oh well, the night is long.

07/19/2021 DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR SPECIFIC PERFORMANCE OF THE PROSECUTION IN DISMISSING THE MURDER SPECIFICATIONS AGAINST DEFENDANT GEORGE WAGNER III (MOTION 51)

Event: ORAL HEARING ON MOTION 51 Date: 09/16/2021 Time: 11:00 AM

https://www.pikecountycpcourt.org/e...ksC2f6ZCESNTC4v3IUtwTpf9sK5Cr-hIBmowzILaLdqcw

• 2018CR000157 STATE OF OHIO -vs- WAGNER, III, GEORGE WASHINGTON

Now that's interesting. Do you think BW's lawyers are looking for mistakes in JW's agreement? What do they have up their sleeves?

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I agree I don't think they dyed anything. I think they dressed more like Boon dock Saints all in black. Jean, t-shirt long sleeved ones or something similar, ski mask & gloves. Things that could be bought at any store or at a thrift store where it couldn't be traced.
But this is just my opinion and what I think they could of have done.

You Sleuthers keep saying (Ski Mask) what about the rubber mask that GW4 purchased (Captain American)JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

Now that's interesting. Do you think BW's lawyers are looking for mistakes in JW's agreement? What do they have up their sleeves?

I bet your right, that they have something "up their sleeves" and it has to do with more than just getting confirmation documents. Could be as you say, looking for mistakes of some sort. Remember - they want to find him psychologically incompetent.

I'm going to run that Motion by the Mods and post it if approved. The one questioning his mental fitness and saying he fell on his head as a kid etc...

 

[IType]

I bet your right, that they have something "up their sleeves" and it has to do with more than just getting confirmation documents. Could be as you say, looking for mistakes of some sort. Remember - they want to find him psychologically incompetent.

I'm going to run that Motion by the Mods and post it if approved. The one questioning his mental fitness and saying he fell on his head as a kid etc...

BBM, Are referring to BW or JW?

 

[Cool Cats]

BBM, Are referring to BW or JW?

Jake. He is being accused of being mentally ill. This comes from George's attorneys.

Note to Mods: I will PM the Motions to you to see if I can post them.

 

[Covert Operative]

Jake. He is being accused of being mentally ill. This comes from George's attorneys.

Note to Mods: I will PM the Motions to you to see if I can post them.

Are they the same motions that were posted before? Are there new motions?

 

[Cool Cats]

You Sleuthers keep saying (Ski Mask) what about the rubber mask that GW4 purchased (Captain American)JMO

Never thought of it being rubber, but yah, could be.

Scheiderer said that among the Wagner murder kit purchases were masks.
Scheiderer said mask, he didn't say ski mask, just mask.

I agree I don't think they dyed anything. I think they dressed more like Boon dock Saints all in black. Jean, t-shirt long sleeved ones or something similar, ski mask & gloves. Things that could be bought at any store or at a thrift store where it couldn't be traced.
But this is just my opinion and what I think they could of have done.

The only dye mentioned that we know of is that George and Jake dyed their hair black.

I didn't think much about the hair dye being significant in any way until it came up in the Bond Hearing. It came up that CN told BCI about the hair dye and also a lady dropped off her car to the Wagners for them to fix right before the murders and she noticed the hair dye.

She also noticed the hair dye on Jake and George when she goes back to pick up her car right after the murders. She said when she went to pick up her car the gate was locked and that they had never locked it before.

See photo:
Defiance Farms (George 4's hair dyed black)

George Wagner request for bail denied after hearing reveals new details

 

[Betty P]

I have my doubts that everything he said may be factual.

I've wondered the same, but why would he lie at this point? He's already gotten LWOP, the best he can get from the state. He already admitted to killing 5 of the 8 victims. He knows the state has a vast amount of evidence

I agree I don't think they dyed anything. I think they dressed more like Boon dock Saints all in black. Jean, t-shirt long sleeved ones or something similar, ski mask & gloves. Things that could be bought at any store or at a thrift store where it couldn't be traced.
But this is just my opinion and what I think they could of have done.

Or they dressed in what they usually wear to go hunting - camo gear. Black clothes are also possible. It was still cool at night, so they would have needed jackets or something.

WRT upcoming hearings for GW4 and Billy, I wonder if we'll end up seeing these delayed again as COVID 19 cases are on the rise, with the Delta variant.

Pike County is only 34% vaccinated right now

ttps://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/covid-19-vaccine-doses.html

and Scioto County is only 35% vaccinated and is showing an increase in cases - currently about 25 new cases per day.

Coronavirus in the U.S.: Latest Map and Case Count

Maybe they can fit in a hearing or two before the courts have to scale back on hearings again.

 

[Covert Operative]

I've wondered the same, but why would he lie at this point? He's already gotten LWOP, the best he can get from the state. He already admitted to killing 5 of the 8 victims. He knows the state has a vast amount of evidence


Or they dressed in what they usually wear to go hunting - camo gear. Black clothes are also possible. It was still cool at night, so they would have needed jackets or something.

WRT upcoming hearings for GW4 and Billy, I wonder if we'll end up seeing these delayed again as COVID 19 cases are on the rise, with the Delta variant.

Pike County is only 34% vaccinated right now

ttps://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/covid-19-vaccine-doses.html

and Scioto County is only 35% vaccinated and is showing an increase in cases - currently about 25 new cases per day.

Coronavirus in the U.S.: Latest Map and Case Count

Maybe they can fit in a hearing or two before the courts have to scale back on hearings again.

Betty, More than likely he probably did not lie about any evidence. I think the lies could be about some of the other defendants, maybe to their advantage in his mind. He may have even embellished the motive. He did already know the evidence the state had when he confessed. He knew what they could prove and what they could not.

His lies would be to try to help others possibly. He may have told the complete truth but he is a liar and murderer so its hard to think he did.

 

[Cool Cats]

Are they the same motions that were posted before? Are there new motions?

Ones that were posted before. I wanted to post them again only because I was discussing Jake being accused of mental illness which is specifically mentioned in those motions. I need a valid link/motion to discuss it.

 

[Cool Cats]

@Covert Operative

It was mentioned in a discussion that DNA was found on the knife. I don't remember this and I find it quite significant. Do you know anything about it?
I can't find the Discovery that lists the knife, it's the Discovery that lists the cement buckets and guns.

I assume it is this Discovery that lists DNA from the knife.

Thanks for your attention to this matter...LOL.. !

 

[Puzzles8]

Your welcome.

My impression from that moment is that it was the first time Jake faced that he caused pain to the families.

He always knew but always ignored it. In court he couldn't ignore it.

Good catch on the moment Jake's courtroom demeanor changed. It was when he was confessing to Kenny's murder. Just IMO, but I think he saw Kenny's family in the court gallery. The W4 had killed their father.

I sense HMR, JW and KR were close friends in the past. I can't imagine their sense of ultimate betrayal.

All JMO, MOO and etc.