OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #72

[Chris_p_bacon]

I don't think she realized how trackable things like that are. She went to a Walmart and bought shoes. She likely didn't even realize she had a receipt for them or that she saved it after the fact. Maybe she intended to return them.. lol That wouldn't surprise me. But once they were used in the crimes and came back bloody, she couldn't, but forgot she had the receipt saved.

True. She did not realize how trackable a lot of things were. Printing documents from a computer is another thing she did not understand.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

True. She did not realize how trackable a lot of things were. Printing documents from a computer is another thing she did not understand.

She also didn't understand that hacking social media page leaves a record.

 

[twall]

Anyone know which truck is CR Sr? I see a silver Ford and a red (might be a Chevy?) in the picture. Was wondering which one the W's drove around in and curious if any blood or other evidence of GW was found in it.

 

[joe jones]

Every trial I have ever watched reveals just how stupid caught criminals are, they all think they are the smartest thing ever, and they are the ones who are so clever that they will never see the inside of a court as a defendant, but every day in every country we see men and women who thought they had the best plan, that they would murder their intended victim and they would be able to carry on with their lives with their said victim/s cold in their grave,

in many cases they soon realize their plan wasn't as good as they thought, and they are soon in the county jail, starting the long process from arrest to trial to conviction, (I have seen trials where I could not convict as state didn't reach BARD but I thought defendant did it, I have seen trials where defendant IMO was innocent Mark Jensen and Brendan Dassey are 2, but for the most part the defendant did it, and is convicted).

And most of them are so stupid that they voluntarily speak to LE, because they think LE will buy their story, and that is the first stupid thing they do.

 

[joe jones]

Anyone know which truck is CR Sr? I see a silver Ford and a red (might be a Chevy?) in the picture. Was wondering which one the W's drove around in and curious if any blood or other evidence of GW was found in it.

state did seem to be focused on the silver truck when the photos of CR property was shown,

 

[Betty P]

state did seem to be focused on the silver truck when the photos of CR property was shown,

This is another detail that never occurred to me could happen. I assume and am hopeful that LE went over this truck carefully for evidence. That was a sly thing to do in this type of crime where the killers were all likely covered in blood.

I do recall BCI and PCSD impounding all the vehicles at the crime scenes to check and make sure none were stolen. IIRC, most of them were given back. I think Tony Rhoden got some of them. I also recall him complaining at one point because some of the more expensive vehicles and equipment hadn't been returned.

So who ended up with Chris's truck? Does it show up in the discovery docs?

 

[ColMustard]

True. She did not realize how trackable a lot of things were. Printing documents from a computer is another thing she did not understand.

I was happy when I heard AC say the custody documents were printed after the date they were signed and notarized. Ha! Don't really need a handwriting expert, but the more the merrier, get a shovel and pile it on.

 

[Chris_p_bacon]

She also didn't understand that hacking social media page leaves a record.

So....about that.....it was wrong on Angela's part to do that. What I would like to know is if any of the people who were hacked got any alert that a different computer logged on to that account. And why did they not change their passwords to various sites after dealing with the Wagners. It is so important for everyone to pay attention to those things in today's digital age.

 

[ColMustard]

I recall people here saying the silver truck was BJM's, but I think it's more likely CR's, it's blocking CRjr's car in the driveway.. Don't know that there was ever any confirmation. I know there's GPS evidence from a Ford F150, but the red one looks like a Ford too, can't get close enough. Trying to recall the other pics that show this red truck closer., I know there's also a red Ford pickup at FR's.

CRjr's car had that red or orange tape on the passenger door.

When you think about the evidence we know, and evidence to come, ... I don't see room for any reasonable doubt. If not for the magnitude of these murders, the fair thing to do is spot the defense some points. Sorry guys, at least you'll get paid. Send in the second string? It's a blowout!

 

[Betty P]

So....about that.....it was wrong on Angela's part to do that. What I would like to know is if any of the people who were hacked got any alert that a different computer logged on to that account. And why did they not change their passwords to various sites after dealing with the Wagners. It is so important for everyone to pay attention to those things in today's digital age.

I didn't realize people could hack private messages on FB. Why doesn't FB have some kind of warning? I'm glad I don't use it very much and almost never use the messaging feature.

 

[ColMustard]

I didn't realize people could hack private messages on FB. Why doesn't FB have some kind of warning? I'm glad I don't use it very much and almost never use the messaging feature.

If somebody uses your FB password, they can login and use your account just as if it were theirs.

True, the IP address or type of device changing should trigger an email warning these days, but I'm not sure if FB did that back then since I wasn't a member.

 

[Venom]

So I might get a lot of grief for this- I was really thinking about this case today and I'm not sure that custody was the only motive for the murders. It makes no sense. If you love and want your kid so much, why would you risk sending yourself and family members to prison? Who would take the kid if/when you got caught? Would you risk the kid going to foster care? Why risk taking the kid's other parent away?

 

[Betty P]

So I might get a lot of grief for this- I was really thinking about this case today and I'm not sure that custody was the only motive for the murders. It makes no sense. If you love and want your kid so much, why would you risk sending yourself and family members to prison? Who would take the kid if/when you got caught? Would you risk the kid going to foster care? Why risk taking the kid's other parent away?

Part of the planning of the murders included Angela Wagner creating custody documents for her sons to sign. The purpose was, in the event of their deaths during the murder spree, Angela would have custody of Jake and George's children.

The brothers signed those custody documents many weeks before the murders, so it was all part of the plot.

The Wagners are what's called an "enmeshed" family. Their exclusive, close relationship with each other is abnormal to the point it affects their personal lives, work and relationships with other people. The families have no boundaries between each other. They share a home, finances, all decisions.

Enmeshed Family: What It Is and Its Impacts

In an enmeshed family, there are no boundaries between the family members. Here’s how to know if you’re in one — and how to get help.

www.healthline.com

Wagners were an extreme version of an enmeshed family to the extent the mother controlled the grandchildren and insisted they only consider her their mother. The wives/partners of the sons were threatened with violence, driven away and forced to leave their children behind. They shared all financial and other decisions.

 

[Betty P]

If somebody uses your FB password, they can login and use your account just as if it were theirs.

True, the IP address or type of device changing should trigger an email warning these days, but I'm not sure if FB did that back then since I wasn't a member.

I remember now. IIRC, Jake made Hanna give him all of her passwords for her phone, social media accounts, etc. I think he shared the info with his mother, who controlled his relationships.

 

[Puzzles8]

I know I have too many receipts in my wallet right now.

My understanding is it was found in a box of random papers where I believe BCI also found a copy of the forged custody agreements. This was all found in the trailer they were using to store household items left behind when they took off for Alaska. BCI later confiscated the laptop the custody documents originated from (seized in Montana).

BBM - Receipts are only a problem if you are planning on committing murder

IIRC, the shoe receipts were found in a tote/storage container in Jake's truck during the May 2017 raid on the 41 property.
The custody documents were found in the same container.

Trucks and trailers on the 41 property were not items the W4 planned to store in Ohio, rather they were the packed possessions they planned on driving/hauling to AK. LE searched both Jake and George's truck (on the 41 property) as well as the three trailers (on the 41 property)they had planned to take to AK. LE confiscated the smaller enclosed white trailer.

The W4 left the area soon after and drove those same two trucks and the remaining two trailers to AK.

JMO

 

[Puzzles8]

Every trial I have ever watched reveals just how stupid caught criminals are, they all think they are the smartest thing ever, and they are the ones who are so clever that they will never see the inside of a court as a defendant, but every day in every country we see men and women who thought they had the best plan, that they would murder their intended victim and they would be able to carry on with their lives with their said victim/s cold in their grave,

in many cases they soon realize their plan wasn't as good as they thought, and they are soon in the county jail, starting the long process from arrest to trial to conviction, (I have seen trials where I could not convict as state didn't reach BARD but I thought defendant did it, I have seen trials where defendant IMO was innocent Mark Jensen and Brendan Dassey are 2, but for the most part the defendant did it, and is convicted).

And most of them are so stupid that they voluntarily speak to LE, because they think LE will buy their story, and that is the first stupid thing they do.

Agree, the criminals always think they can outsmart LE. Given today's electronic environment that's becoming very hard to do.

JMO

 

[Puzzles8]

So I might get a lot of grief for this- I was really thinking about this case today and I'm not sure that custody was the only motive for the murders. It makes no sense. If you love and want your kid so much, why would you risk sending yourself and family members to prison? Who would take the kid if/when you got caught? Would you risk the kid going to foster care? Why risk taking the kid's other parent away?

No grief here. Logically what you explain makes total sense...to a person of sane mind.

That in mind, it doesn't give anyone the right to commit cold blooded murder.

JMO

 

[Chelly]

I remember now. IIRC, Jake made Hanna give him all of her passwords for her phone, social media accounts, etc. I think he shared the info with his mother, who controlled his relationships.

Right! This was a highly controlled family. AW controlled her sons, who in turn controlled their wives who in addition were also controlled by Angela. They lived in their own little bubble of reality. I always imagined them as isolated, brainwashed.

ETA - Imagine living your entire life in the shadow of a delusional mother or mother-in-law, and doing only what she instructed you to do. And, not doing everything she forbids. This was all they knew.

 

[ColMustard]

So I might get a lot of grief for this- I was really thinking about this case today and I'm not sure that custody was the only motive for the murders. It makes no sense. If you love and want your kid so much, why would you risk sending yourself and family members to prison? Who would take the kid if/when you got caught? Would you risk the kid going to foster care? Why risk taking the kid's other parent away?

Because you care more about control and possession of the child, not the child's actual well being.

There were choices facing the Ws, they chose to try and rip the child away from her mother, at any cost.

They didn't care about any of the children involved, they didn't care about them growing up with a mother or both parents, grandpa, uncle, and great uncle all murdered in the most horrible way.

Totally my opinions above, and, I would bet Ws calculated the financial benefit of possessing another child.

edited.

 

[Chelly]

Because you care more about control and possession of the child, not the child's actual well being.

There were choices facing the Ws, they chose to try and rip the child away from her mother, at any cost.

Yes, We just can not apply normal standards to this family when wondering about their behavior.