OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #73

[Chelly]

They will have ballistics evidence linking the ammo and cartridges at the crime scene, to the guns retrieved on the Wagners grandmother's property.

They have their vehicle (proven to have been purchased by George) on video at crime scenes.

@Betty P You make two excellent points here imo. With patience we will see prosecution connect the dots.

 

[molly1255]

Good post Raisin! But, but, but he still was in on the planning and equipment gathering. Guilty as the rest.

Agree with this. He is as guilty as the rest. The shoe prints put him at the murder scenes, JW and AW put him there and we know that at a minimum, the jurors will be hearing GW IV's own voice recordings that LE captured as the W's were planning revenge and jail breaks and it was reported that GW IV was very vocal.

The jurors live in Pike County. How safe will they feel if they let him off easy, knowing that at a minimum, he went along with it all, he was at each murder scene, did nothing to try to stop it and he participated in the attempted coverup. I don't care how much dysfunction he was raised with. Plenty of people are raised with dysfunction and they still manage to develop a sense of empathy for others and a conscience that would not allow them to do any of these things. All JMO.

 

[molly1255]

Yes, somehow prosecutors were able to put away criminals for murder without DNA for a very long time.

Agree and many successful murder prosecutions involve either mostly or all circumstantial evidence. Circumstantial evidence is evidence.

 

[Betty P]

@Betty P You make two excellent points here imo. With patience we will see prosecution connect the dots.

I think that's what they're doing today. Laying the groundwork to link the ballistics evidence to the specific guns owned and used by the Wagners. The same ones found in the buckets, sunk in the pond at Flying W Farms. It's why the Wagners bought "brass catchers" hoping they wouldn't leave that evidence behind. But they did.

That's why the prosecution took the jurors out to FWF at the beginning of the trial. To the farm and to the pond. The weapons retrieved on FWF are key evidence that links the Wagners directly and indisputably to the murders.

 

[molly1255]

Eh, the criminalists were incompetent, evidence got tainted, and there was a racist cop so the defense could discredit the prosecution's case. That's why OJ walked. And the defense attorneys were smarter while the prosecution played to the TV. None of that applies in this case.

Agree with this and to add that at the time many were still bedazzled by OJ's fame and charisma. I would be very surprised if any of the jurors on this case are bedazzled by any of the W's. They are most likely recoiling in horror each day as they see first-hand what was done to each innocent victim, not to mention the trauma each likely felt when it first happened knowing it happened in their own community and how long it took to arrest them. I doubt many people felt safe.

 

[Cool Cats]

The 1911 Colt, which shot the .22 ammo. The ballistics expert today used one like it when he testified. Wasn't it George who had the list of all the weapons they used listed on his cell phone or social media account? The Wagners also had photos of these guns on their phones and social media. Didn't someone post photos of their gun or guns on Facebook?

Jake had a family gun list on his phone. It listed a Cricket kid's gun for his daughter and all the other guns each family member owned. Also, Jake sent a photo of his colt 22 to Hanna's Facebook and they have a photo from his phone showing him holding his colt 22.

They proved it is his hand holding it by his partial palm prints and by his ring tattoo.

Angie had a family gun list on her laptop they took from her in Montana. This just came out I think in Canepa's opening statement. Angie was spying to get dirt on Tabby and Hanna for custody purposes.

George Bond Hearing testimony from Scheiderer.

I remember, plus some others on here remember, seeing the gun photo on Hanna's Facebook back in 2016 so consider this part to be opinion only.

 

[twall]

I am behind, only watched testimony until 1st break then was busy the rest of the day.

KR's driveway sensor. My sister and her husband built their house in the early '90's on 20 acres back a long, hilly driveway and they installed a driveway sensor. The alarm is in their kitchen island and it is loud! It detects metal, her kids bicycles would set it off so the W's more than likely knew about it, parked in the road and walked around it because the BCI agent stated they tested it and it was working. But didn't LR testify it wasn't working? Who knows!

SNIP from article about BW's .40 Glock:

Brad Uhl remembers the summer day the man in the white Jeep flashed a handgun at him, his teenage daughter, and his teenage niece during “a bit of road rage” on U.S. 23 near Lucasville, between Piketon and Portsmouth.

“It’s something you don’t forget,” Uhl said.

The incident — the details of which the Dayton Daily News is reporting for the first time — resulted in Billy Wagner pleading no contest to charges he improperly handled a loaded .40-caliber Glock handgun, according to the Portsmouth Municipal Court.

Father charged in Pike County murders had past brushes with law

When Billy Wagner is arraigned Tuesday in Pike County Common Pleas Court on charges he and his immediate family executed the most complex murders in Ohio history, it won’t be the first time the 47-year-old father has faced a judge.

www.journal-news.com

 

[Cool Cats]

They will have ballistics evidence linking the ammo and cartridges at the crime scene, to the guns retrieved on the Wagners grandmother's property.

They have their vehicle (proven to have been purchased by George) on video at crime scenes.

Billy's footprints are inside the door. That's all that matters.

Can you explain A little about this video they have of the truck George purchased? Like where did this come from? Did they give any details?

What house are Billy's footprints in? How do they know they are his footprints? Any information appreciated.

 

[Chingaling]

They will have ballistics evidence linking the ammo and cartridges at the crime scene, to the guns retrieved on the Wagners grandmother's property.

They have their vehicle (proven to have been purchased by George) on video at crime scenes.

The ballistic expert was very interesting. So IMO if they had all this evidence, then why make deals with any of them? I believe they had the evidence, so doesn't make sense to make a deal with none of them.

 

[Cool Cats]

The ballistic expert was very interesting. So IMO if they had all this evidence, then why make deals with any of them? I believe they had the evidence, so doesn't make sense to make a deal with none of them.

Family agreed.. Canepa was very clear that the prosecution talked to the family about Jake's plea. The family evidently felt LWOP was a good sentence rather than the DP which has appeals forever. You can't do appeals in a plea deal.

As for Angie of course the prosecution talked to the family about it but I know a family member said she (Angie) gets 30 more years than what their family gets.

I can only assume the family went along with Angie's 30 year plea deal. No parole, no early release.

I believe it helped the family to hear Jake and Angie admit what they did. To come out and confess. 2 down for them.

 

[twall]

could somebody type me a succinct list of who shot who and with what gun, thanks, can you type out full name of gun as calibers etc. mean very little to me, sorry to be a pain but could you add the caliber of bullet each gun fired

IMO JW shot CR Sr. in the forearm with the SKS .30 Cal rifle (long gun) from outside the trailer, BW shot CR Sr., GR and KR with the .40 (caliber) Glock (brand) handgun with Hornaday (brand) hollow point bullets, JW shot FR, HHG, DR, HMR and CR Jr. with the .22 (caliber) Colt 1911 LR (brand) handgun with Remington (brand) bullets. LR stands for long rifle, it is the type of bullet, it is longer than a standard .22 bullet (has more gunpowder). Evidence photos below, sorry, don't have photos of .40 Cal Glock handgun or .30 Cal SKS rifle yet! And it has not been stated what brand of bullets came out of the .30 rifle. HTH!

 

[Betty P]

Can you explain A little about this video they have of the truck George purchased? Like where did this come from? Diddetails?

What house are Billy's footprints in? How do they know they are his footprints? Any information appreciated.

AC mentioned the video in her opening statement.

IMO JW shot CR Sr. in the forearm with the SKS .30 Cal rifle (long gun) from outside the trailer, BW shot CR Sr., GR and KR with the .40 (caliber) Glock (brand) handgun with Hornaday (brand) hollow point bullets, JW shot FR, HHG, DR, HMR and CR Jr. with the .22 (caliber) Colt 1911 LR (brand) handgun with Remington (brand) bullets. LR stands for long rifle, it is the type of bullet, it is longer than a standard .22 bullet (has more gunpowder). Evidence photos below, sorry, don't have photos of .40 Cal Glock handgun or .30 Cal SKS rifle yet! And it has not been stated what brand of bullets came out of the .30 rifle. HTH!

Towards the end of today's courtroom video, you'll hear the ballistics expert identify many of the bullets and fragments found in the bodies of the victims. He looks at the evidence and explains the type of gun they came from. He obviously identified them previously, in his lab. They're bagged, tagged and sealed. So now the jury pretty much knows which bullets killed each victim and which guns were used for each. Most had general class characteristics, some not individual characteristics.

ETA: Mr. White will be back tomorrow to finish his testimony. Today he was able to identify all the bullets and fragments found in the bodies of the victims and in most cases, able to positively link each victim's bullets and fragments to those found in the other victims. IOW, the bullets found in Hannah Rhoden were the same as those identified in Frankie, etc.

 

[Betty P]

The ballistic expert was very interesting. So IMO if they had all this evidence, then why make deals with any of them? I believe they had the evidence, so doesn't make sense to make a deal with none of them.

I think prosecution (AC) talked about that at Jake's hearing when he confessed. The amount of time it would take to get through all 4 trials was a key consideration. The family wanted to see justice, but some of them were in failing health. It probably would take at least 5 years to get through all 4 trials. That meant family had to continue showing up for pre-trial and trial hearings month after month, year after year until all of these creeps were convicted.

It probably also meant the trials would eventually need jurors from other counties, due to Pike County's relatively small population. It would be hard to seat 4 consecutive juries in Pike County.

The decisions came after the defense attorneys had a chance to review all the evidence against their clients and realized it would be very difficult, if not impossible to get an acquittal.

GW4's attorneys have worked very hard for the last couple of years to bamboozle some folks into thinking the evidence against the Wagners was weak when, in reality at least 2 defense teams (and probably 3) realized they stood little chance of winning. I say probably 3 because I don't think Billy's attorneys believe he will get acquitted. He has ignored their advice a number of times, on his case. Remember when he made them hassle the judge to have a hearing about letting him out on bail? LOL. They're stuck having to do what he wants. He's a very violent, hostile, poorly educated and delusional defendant. Not sure what the deal is with GW4 and his attorney. I suspect, but won't say.

 

[Cool Cats]

IMO JW shot CR Sr. in the forearm with the SKS .30 Cal rifle (long gun) from outside the trailer, BW shot CR Sr., GR and KR with the .40 (caliber) Glock (brand) handgun with Hornaday (brand) hollow point bullets, JW shot FR, HHG, DR, HMR and CR Jr. with the .22 (caliber) Colt 1911 LR (brand) handgun with Remington (brand) bullets. LR stands for long rifle, it is the type of bullet, it is longer than a standard .22 bullet (has more gunpowder). Evidence photos below, sorry, don't have photos of .40 Cal Glock handgun or .30 Cal SKS rifle yet! And it has not been stated what brand of bullets came out of the .30 rifle. HTH!

Good information. Should match up nicely with the 3 guns Jake produced from FWS's pond. Guns that I think were submerged in those cement buckets.

 

[rsd1200]

I am curious about the cartridges and casings found vs. the known shots fired. At Dana's and Chris Sr's the shooter or group clearly policed their brass and picked up cartridges and spent she'll casings. Something led that to not happen at Frankie and Hannah Giley's place.

I wonder why that was. It could be because BR was there. It could indicate different shooters. Maybe it was the space or time. But it is interesting.

If I have this right, its:

4199 Union Hill Road (Frankie and Hannah Giley)

*8 shots hit victims

-5 Remington .22 LR cartridage casings
-1 Remington .22 LR cartridge

3122 Union Hill Road (Dana, Hanna and Chris)

*11 shots hit victims

1 Remington .22 LR casing

4077 Union Hill Road (Chris Sr. and Gary)

* 12 shots hit victims

- Hornaday .40 cartiage casing

Left Fork Road (Kenneth)

*1 shot hit victim

During Day 8, of the trial, at around the 2 1/2 to 3:00 hours in, the BCI agent, had said there were five casings found in HG and FR's room. BCI found two, in the bed, after moving their bodies, and the other three were around the bed area. As you pointed out, with a toddler in another room, and an infant in the same room, things may have gotten too complicated. I doubt the Ws could have even found the two in the bed and may not have even known they landed there.

 

[justtrish]

The ballistic expert was very interesting. So IMO if they had all this evidence, then why make deals with any of them? I believe they had the evidence, so doesn't make sense to make a deal with none of them.

I mean in this case the "deal" is just no death penalty. Many states don't even have the death penalty and those that do often take 20+ years to execute someone with MANY appeals, which would be further trauma for the families involved. Jake's deal really isn't all that great other than he gets to live his days out in prison till he dies. That means no appeals, no more court for these families to endure, just him agreeing he did this and he stays in prison forever. That is justice in my opinion.

Now for Angela, eve her deal I can live with. 30 years from now she's an old lady. I don't think she will live to see that day. Prison life isn't easy.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

The ballistic expert was very interesting. So IMO if they had all this evidence, then why make deals with any of them? I believe they had the evidence, so doesn't make sense to make a deal with none of them.

You get a slam dunk life without parole on Jake. You get 30 years for Angela, who wasn't at any of the murder scenes. There is no risk at all that either of them would be acquitted. You get their testimony against the other two. Jake took the investigators to the guns. And taxpayers don't have to pay for 2 long death penalty trials. They should have made that deal all day long, every day. The goal is to put these murderers in prison. Two down without the expense of a trial, plus info and testimony.

 

[Betty P]

I mean in this case the "deal" is just no death penalty. Many states don't even have the death penalty and those that do often take 20+ years to execute someone with MANY appeals, which would be further trauma for the families involved. Jake's deal really isn't all that great other than he gets to live his days out in prison till he dies. That means no appeals, no more court for these families to endure, just him agreeing he did this and he stays in prison forever. That is justice in my opinion.

Now for Angela, eve her deal I can live with. 30 years from now she's an old lady. I don't think she will live to see that day. Prison life isn't easy.

Jake's deal also included LWOP for GW4 and Billy. No DP for them. I don't think the good citizens of Pike County are going to appreciate all the costs of their endless trials and appeals. Pike is not a wealthy county by any means and those folks need their tax dollars to go for things the citizens, schools, libraries, health clinics, roads & bridges, etc. need.

 

[twall]

Good information. Should match up nicely with the 3 guns Jake produced from FWS's pond. Guns that I think were submerged in those cement buckets.

Jumping off your post-Something I missed as I am catching up I now see a .40 Cal Smith & Wesson casing was found on KR bed, not a Hornaday that was retrieved at CR Sr. home. Hmmmmmmm......2 .40 Caliber guns used or same gun different brand bullets? Hopefully this will be answered as testimony proceeds!

Photos in this gallery of today's proceedings-

Evidence from 4th crime scene and 8th victim introduced in Pike County massacre

A 40-caliber Smith & Wesson cartridge was found on the bed, near where the body of Kenneth Rhoden was found in the trailer where Rhoden lived on Left Fork Road in Rarden, Ohio, taken by George E. Staley Jr. a BCI special agent on April 22, 2016. George Wagner IV is on trial in Pike County...

local12.com

eta-don't mind me as I found this quote that cleared things up-this ballistics stuff is confusing!

SNIP
"This particular item was a Hornady-brand Smith & Wesson fired 40-caliber cartridge case," White said.

Evidence from 4th crime scene and 8th victim introduced in Pike County massacre

George Wagner is one of four members of his family accused of murder in the shooting deaths of eight members of the Rhoden and Gilley families six years ago.

local12.com

 

[Betty P]

Can you explain A little about this video they have of the truck George purchased? Like where did this come from? Did they give any details?

What house are Billy's footprints in? How do they know they are his footprints? Any information appreciated.

Amended to GW4