OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #73

[Dudly]

Agent Scheiderer didn't think the MJ grows were that large.

I definitely heard that!

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Twitter is working for me Agent Scheiderer is on the stand talking about their Facebook accounts

I find Hanna Rhoden's Facebook page heartbreaking.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I do wonder if I was on the jury, as I sit through the evidence and testimonies, whether I would think that GW was of course involved - because his entire family was involved and with their dynamic, he would have been complicit if not directly involve

d. He isn't some random person or distant relative. Intent is a huge part of thi



If you were on that jury you can bet you are listening only for evidence that pertains to George. I know we have lumped all of them in as the W4 for so long some of us are having a hard time separating George out from the other three. I am just keeping in mind the old saying "you are not your brothers keeper" or your fathers or mothers. So far I have seen them build a very solid case against Jake and Billy. I don't see Billy getting off.

But as for evidence on George, nothing.

i have considered the shoeprint evidence. Prosecution has to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. Circumstantial evidence alone won't do it. They have to conclusively put those shoes on George's feet that night at those scenes. At least one of them anyway. I don't see that happening. Too many variables in there.
1. George threw the shoes in the trash.
2. Billy wore one pair, jake wore the other.
3. Too many other people in the area bought that cheap brand of shoes at Walmart.

Keep in mind these are not a pair of custom made 2000.00 alligator loafers. They are not even a high end brand or a popular brand like NIKE.

I think they only way they will get a is if they have George in the vehicle with Billy and Jake that night on surveillance cameras. I am placing all my hope in that random house they took jurors to or the church they took them to as having cameras.

O/T I have some friends down in Florida in Ft Myers and Orlando who are getting hammered by hurricane Ian right now. Your thoughts for them are appreciated by me.

JMO

 

[pittsburghgirl]

MOO

Whaaat?! Defense is going make an issue out of county boundary lines?

What ya do when ya got nothing.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Thank you for listing the upcoming evidence. I live west of Waverly, and it's fascinating to watch the trial. I'd add that it's not wrong to think that people choose to hide their identities for fear of retaliation. 'Hillbilly Mafia' is a thing. 'Justified' isn't just a tv show for many in southern Ohio.

BBM
And retaliation against their families.

JMO

 

[CIA Team Member]

A cartel would not have gone to all 4 places IMO; in fact when the custody problems came out it was almost directly pointing at the Wagners and nobody else.

For me early... I felt I knew when I found out about JW picking up his child before it happened. Just knew he was involved and knew he would not have done it alone.

When did y'all start to home in on the Wagners?

When Jake's timeline of picking up the child differed.
I kept wanting to dismiss it, though. But, stuck with it.

 

[CIA Team Member]

MOO

Whaaat?! Defense is going make an issue out of county boundary lines?

I'm thinking the defense will want to use this on appeal if found guilty. They've planted that seed now.
JMO

 

[justtrish]

This was just classic stupidity that gave the state a time line. Maybe they thought it was a good ruse to establish an alibi and an explanation for why anyone might have seen BW in the area--along with luring CR outside.

I think they thought CRsr calling Billy and Billy's phone then pinging at Angela's house at that time would put them out of the limelight and give them an alibi. He's thinking his phone is where he is or maybe he thought that LE would think that.

They were right at least initially. They did a tower dump so they were looking for phones that pinged to the towers at the time, but the witness testified that in an area like Pike County all the phones are pinging on the same towers. If that info would have been helpful though it would have put the W's all away from the Rhoden's homes that night.

 

[Cool Cats]

d. He isn't some random person or distant relative. Intent is a huge part of thi



If you were on that jury you can bet you are listening only for evidence that pertains to George. I know we have lumped all of them in as the W4 for so long some of us are having a hard time separating George out from the other three. I am just keeping in mind the old saying "you are not your brothers keeper" or your fathers or mothers. So far I have seen them build a very solid case against Jake and Billy. I don't see Billy getting off.

But as for evidence on George, nothing.

i have considered the shoeprint evidence. Prosecution has to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. Circumstantial evidence alone won't do it. They have to conclusively put those shoes on George's feet that night at those scenes. At least one of them anyway. I don't see that happening. Too many variables in there.
1. George threw the shoes in the trash.
2. Billy wore one pair, jake wore the other.
3. Too many other people in the area bought that cheap brand of shoes at Walmart.

Keep in mind these are not a pair of custom made 2000.00 alligator loafers. They are not even a high end brand or a popular brand like NIKE.

I think they only way they will get a is if they have George in the vehicle with Billy and Jake that night on surveillance cameras. I am placing all my hope in that random house they took jurors to or the church they took them to as having cameras.

O/T I have some friends down in Florida in Ft Myers and Orlando who are getting hammered by hurricane Ian right now. Your thoughts for them are appreciated by me.

JMO

There is lots of evidence of George being involved in the murder conspiracy according to the prosecution, without the proffers, and there is no reason to think the jury won't believe Angela's and Jake's testimony when they take the stand and you have 2 people not just one collaborating the evidence. 2 co-defendants.

The evidence from Jake and Angela will be compelling and will definitely place George at the crime scenes and in the murder conspiracy. There are 8,000 BCI recorded conversations of interest they have on the Wagner's including incriminating statements from George himself like "I told you to get rid of your phone and smash your laptop."

I believe that George insists to his attorneys that he is innocent. Nash came out and said this in a 2021 hearing.
But I now think Nash has his doubts about George's innocence and my reason for this is because he did "an about face" in his opening statement and actually said George wasn't there at all and knew nothing about it.

Earlier on, the defense did not deny that George wasn't there, they did not deny at the hearings that:

1.) Angie placed him there.
2.) Jake placed him there.
3.) He went at the last minute.
4.) He only went to protect Jake from Billy.
5.) He hid at Chris's in the truck.
6.) He didn't shoot anyone while being there.

Now suddenly he wasn't even there?
DeWine said the evidence showed they arrested the right people who did it. There were 4 devils in it according to Canepa, and a prosecutor said George was involved in all 4 parts of the crime.
They saw from cell tower records that all 4 Wagner phones were together that night. They dug deeper into the cell records and found that in 2016 that night of the murders was the only time all of their phones were together. It places the 3 Wagner men together that night. (Peterson Rd.)

The search of Wagner property found the 22 shell casings that matched the casings at the crime scenes with George practice shooting gun suppressor a in the woods.

This is all independent of Jake and Angela's proffer.

Also the prosecutor said that Complicity in Ohio is if 2 or more people engage in criminal activity for the purpose of one doing one part the other doing the other part then each is responsible for the whole.

He, the prosecutor, said that the defendant doesn't seem to get that he doesn't seem to understand that - he wants to argue that he didn't do this or he didn't do that when the evidence will show that at the very least he participated in every phase of this crime:

The planning, the preparation, the execution and the cover up.

He also mentioned having both circumstantial and direct evidence.

 

[twall]

The state quickly jumped into the initial phases of the investigation, which included security camera footage that neighbors in the area of Kenneth Rhoden’s camper and Union Hill Road handed over to investigators. On the video, vehicles could be seen driving up and down the roads around the time the state says the murders happened.

• 1:36 A.M.: Vehicle leaves the area of crime scenes on Union Hill Road and turns onto S.R. 772.
• 2 A.M.: A vehicle is seen driving off S.R. 772 down Union Hill Road toward the crime scenes.
• 2:29 A.M.: A vehicle is seen driving down Left Fork Road, toward Kenneth Rhoden’s camper.
• 2:41 A.M.: Two vehicles are seen leaving the area of the crime scenes and making a left turn onto S.R. 772
• 2:51 A.M.: A vehicle is seen driving down Left Fork Road toward Kenneth Rhoden’s camper.
• 3:10 A.M. A vehicle is seen driving away from Kenneth Rhoden’s camper on Left Fork Road.
• 3:19 A.M.: Two vehicles drive down S.R. 772 and turn onto Union Hill Road toward the crime scenes.

The issue with the videos are, it’s dark and there is no way to tell who is driving or the make and model of the vehicles. In fact, the agent testified, “it’s unknown if the [vehicles seen driving toward and away from the crime scenes] are the same vehicles.”

DAY 13: Defense introduces reasonable doubt with shoes, while state goes over phone records in Wagner trial

Scioto Valley Guardian

sciotovalleyguardian.com

 

[Cool Cats]

d. He isn't some random person or distant relative. Intent is a huge part of thi



If you were on that jury you can bet you are listening only for evidence that pertains to George. I know we have lumped all of them in as the W4 for so long some of us are having a hard time separating George out from the other three. I am just keeping in mind the old saying "you are not your brothers keeper" or your fathers or mothers. So far I have seen them build a very solid case against Jake and Billy. I don't see Billy getting off.

But as for evidence on George, nothing.

i have considered the shoeprint evidence. Prosecution has to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. Circumstantial evidence alone won't do it. They have to conclusively put those shoes on George's feet that night at those scenes. At least one of them anyway. I don't see that happening. Too many variables in there.
1. George threw the shoes in the trash.
2. Billy wore one pair, jake wore the other.
3. Too many other people in the area bought that cheap brand of shoes at Walmart.

Keep in mind these are not a pair of custom made 2000.00 alligator loafers. They are not even a high end brand or a popular brand like NIKE.

I think they only way they will get a is if they have George in the vehicle with Billy and Jake that night on surveillance cameras. I am placing all my hope in that random house they took jurors to or the church they took them to as having cameras.

O/T I have some friends down in Florida in Ft Myers and Orlando who are getting hammered by hurricane Ian right now. Your thoughts for them are appreciated by me.

JMO

There is lots of evidence of George being involved in the murder conspiracy according to the prosecution, without the proffers, and there is no reason to think the jury won't believe Angela's and Jake's testimony when they take the stand and you have 2 people not just one collaborating the evidence. 2 co-defendants.

The evidence from Jake and Angela will be compelling and will definitely place George at the crime scenes and in the murder conspiracy. There are 8,000 BCI recorded conversations of interest they have on the Wagner's including incriminating statements from George himself like "I told you to get rid of your phone and smash your laptop."

I believe that George insists to his attorneys that he is innocent. Nash came out and said this in a 2021 hearing.
But I now think Nash has his doubts about George's innocence and my reason for this is because he did "an about face" in his opening statement and actually said George wasn't there at all and knew nothing about it.

Earlier on, the defense did not deny in their Motions or at the hearings that George was at the murder scenes. They did not deny that:

1.) Angie placed him there.
2.) Jake placed him there.
3.) He went at the last minute.
4.) He only went to protect Jake from Billy.
5.) He hid at Chris's in the truck.
6.) He didn't shoot anyone while being there.
7.) He bought and modified the truck. Bought a mask and a night scope.

Now suddenly he wasn't even there? Because Ohio law sees him as guilty just for going along and participating.

DeWine said the evidence showed they arrested the right people who did it. There were 4 devils in it according to Canepa, and a prosecutor said George was involved in all 4 parts of the crime.

They saw from cell tower records that all 4 Wagner phones were together that night. They dug deeper into the cell records and found that in 2016 that night of the murders was the only time all of their phones were together. It places the 3 Wagner men together that night. (Peterson Rd.)

The search of Wagner property found the 22 shell casings that matched the casings at the crime scenes with George practice shooting gun suppressors in the woods, moving bodies at Chris's and leaving a footprint at Dana's. The best shoe print expert will be testifying for the prosecution with proof from Angie she bought the murder shoes for George and the tread on the shoes was new tread, bought just a few weeks before the murders.

There are so many things including the hair dye, lying to BCI about the custody and doing everything together including George voting for the murders and Angie confirming this.

Also, George bought, modified, and hid in the murder truck and at the very least tried to fire a gun that Jake then took from him. BCI also has George's 8 ball tattoo in evidence and how he lied to get custody of his own son and threatened his wife, along with threatening LE and anyone else who went against them.

Also the prosecutor said that Complicity in Ohio is if 2 or more people engage in criminal activity for the purpose of one doing one part the other doing the other part then each is responsible for the whole.

He, the prosecutor, said that the defendant doesn't seem to get that he doesn't seem to understand that - he wants to argue that he didn't do this or he didn't do that when the evidence will show that at the very least he participated in every phase of this crime:

The planning, the preparation, the execution and the cover up.

He also mentioned having both circumstantial and direct evidence.

The jury doesn't need to see George in a vehicle on a surveillance camera from that night to convict him of murder.

George's Tattoo:

 

[PrairieWind]

Can anyone explain why this county line deal is such a big issue? Or maybe it isn't and the defense is just trying to insert this to have an appeal later?

I thought the agent gave a good answer about as long as it was a continuning crime it was allowed to be charged in that county.

How many crimes are done in a spree like this and I don't recall trial in every county for each offense.

Wouldn't they rule on this beforehand? If it couldn't be done wouldn't the charges be filed in that county for Dana, CRjr, and Hanna Mae? The fact they drove around and continued to go back and forth tells me it's all one crime and they didn't go home, come back to kill someone else, they left home to commit all these crimes, then did it over the next 4 hours and then returned home. Is that how the agent was explaining one continuous event?

UGH this defense is really annoying. It's VERY telling what they are choosing to pick apart. It means there is NO DEFESE because he was there and he did this so they have to pick apart things that are distractions from the real crimes.

I haven't been able to see what the issue was exactly, but I can guess they are claiming that murders in another county must be prosecuted in that county and that this court doesn't have jurisdiction. This sort of thing is handled differently in different states. If some of the murders occurred across the county line, then THAT county's attorney should have filed the charges in that county. My understanding here is that the Judge doesn't seem particularly interested in that argument. It may be that he believes the argument should have been filed long ago and is thus waived now. But it makes sense the defense would at least raise the issue.

 

[LMDlong]

There is lots of evidence of George being involved in the murder conspiracy according to the prosecution, without the proffers, and there is no reason to think the jury won't believe Angela's and Jake's testimony when they take the stand and you have 2 people not just one collaborating the evidence. 2 co-defendants.

The evidence from Jake and Angela will be compelling and will definitely place George at the crime scenes and in the murder conspiracy. There are 8,000 BCI recorded conversations of interest they have on the Wagner's including incriminating statements from George himself like "I told you to get rid of your phone and smash your laptop."

I believe that George insists to his attorneys that he is innocent. Nash came out and said this in a 2021 hearing.
But I now think Nash has his doubts about George's innocence and my reason for this is because he did "an about face" in his opening statement and actually said George wasn't there at all and knew nothing about it.

Earlier on, the defense did not deny that George wasn't there, they did not deny at the hearings that:

1.) Angie placed him there.
2.) Jake placed him there.
3.) He went at the last minute.
4.) He only went to protect Jake from Billy.
5.) He hid at Chris's in the truck.
6.) He didn't shoot anyone while being there.

Now suddenly he wasn't even there?
DeWine said the evidence showed they arrested the right people who did it. There were 4 devils in it according to Canepa, and a prosecutor said George was involved in all 4 parts of the crime.
They saw from cell tower records that all 4 Wagner phones were together that night. They dug deeper into the cell records and found that in 2016 that night of the murders was the only time all of their phones were together. It places the 3 Wagner men together that night. (Peterson Rd.)

The search of Wagner property found the 22 shell casings that matched the casings at the crime scenes with George practice shooting gun suppressor a in the woods.

This is all independent of Jake and Angela's proffer.

Also the prosecutor said that Complicity in Ohio is if 2 or more people engage in criminal activity for the purpose of one doing one part the other doing the other part then each is responsible for the whole.

He, the prosecutor, said that the defendant doesn't seem to get that he doesn't seem to understand that - he wants to argue that he didn't do this or he didn't do that when the evidence will show that at the very least he participated in every phase of this crime:

The planning, the preparation, the execution and the cover up.

He also mentioned having both circumstantial and direct evidence.

Exactly what I think.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

If you were on that jury you can bet you are listening only for evidence that pertains to George. I know we have lumped all of them in as the W4 for so long some of us are having a hard time separating George out from the other three. I am just keeping in mind the old saying "you are not your brothers keeper" or your fathers or mothers. So far I have seen them build a very solid case against Jake and Billy. I don't see Billy getting off.

But as for evidence on George, nothing.

I don't think they've pointed to evidence against any one person yet. We have bullets, wounds, casings, trajectories, etc., not yet attributed to anyone. We of course apply what we already know to that evidence but the jury is not steeped in 6 years of details on the case. Since the main charges are aggravated murder, aggravated burglary, and conspiracy, if George is there, he's going down. That's all it takes under the law.

 

[sunshineray]

There is lots of evidence of George being involved in the murder conspiracy according to the prosecution, without the proffers, and there is no reason to think the jury won't believe Angela's and Jake's testimony when they take the stand and you have 2 people not just one collaborating the evidence. 2 co-defendants.

The evidence from Jake and Angela will be compelling and will definitely place George at the crime scenes and in the murder conspiracy. There are 8,000 BCI recorded conversations of interest they have on the Wagner's including incriminating statements from George himself like "I told you to get rid of your phone and smash your laptop."

I believe that George insists to his attorneys that he is innocent. Nash came out and said this in a 2021 hearing.
But I now think Nash has his doubts about George's innocence and my reason for this is because he did "an about face" in his opening statement and actually said George wasn't there at all and knew nothing about it.

Earlier on, the defense did not deny that George wasn't there, they did not deny at the hearings that:

1.) Angie placed him there.
2.) Jake placed him there.
3.) He went at the last minute.
4.) He only went to protect Jake from Billy.
5.) He hid at Chris's in the truck.
6.) He didn't shoot anyone while being there.

Now suddenly he wasn't even there?
DeWine said the evidence showed they arrested the right people who did it. There were 4 devils in it according to Canepa, and a prosecutor said George was involved in all 4 parts of the crime.
They saw from cell tower records that all 4 Wagner phones were together that night. They dug deeper into the cell records and found that in 2016 that night of the murders was the only time all of their phones were together. It places the 3 Wagner men together that night. (Peterson Rd.)

The search of Wagner property found the 22 shell casings that matched the casings at the crime scenes with George practice shooting gun suppressor a in the woods.

This is all independent of Jake and Angela's proffer.

Also the prosecutor said that Complicity in Ohio is if 2 or more people engage in criminal activity for the purpose of one doing one part the other doing the other part then each is responsible for the whole.

He, the prosecutor, said that the defendant doesn't seem to get that he doesn't seem to understand that - he wants to argue that he didn't do this or he didn't do that when the evidence will show that at the very least he participated in every phase of this crime:

The planning, the preparation, the execution and the cover up.

He also mentioned having both circumstantial and direct evidence.

BBM


"There are 8,000 BCI recorded conversations of interest..."


CC, I hadn't heard this, I must have missed it. Can you elaborate where that info came from, what witness so I can go back and listen. I kept getting booted off the local stations live feeds at first. TIA

 

[sunshineray]

I find Hanna Rhoden's Facebook page heartbreaking.

I had to stop watching right after they showed the vehicles moving around that night.

Who's Facebook pages did they show, just Hanna's?

Was that the end of testimony today or did I miss more?

TIA

 

[Cool Cats]

I don't think they've pointed to evidence against any one person yet. We have bullets, wounds, casings, trajectories, etc., not yet attributed to anyone. We of course apply what we already know to that evidence but the jury is not steeped in 6 years of details on the case. Since the main charges are aggravated murder, aggravated burglary, and conspiracy, if George is there, he's going down. That's all it takes under the law.

Jake is providing the exact guns used that night plus the 22 casings on Peterson Rd. match casings at the crime scenes. Silencer parts they bought were found in their well and so on...

But very good point. Jury must be convinced that these are Wagner guns that Wagner's fired.

 

[Cool Cats]

BBM


"There are 8,000 BCI recorded conversations of interest..."


CC, I hadn't heard this, I must have missed it. Can you elaborate where that info came from, what witness so I can go back and listen. I kept getting booted off the local stations live feeds at first. TIA

I can try to find the time stamp for you but it was at George's Bond Hearing where Canepa and Scheiderer mentioned 8,000 recordings of interest. This could include both texts and listening to phone conversations and to conversations in the work truck.

• 

Former BCI agent testifies in motions hearing for eldest Wagner​

The eldest Wagner appeared in a Pike County court Monday.

www.fox19.com

Yup, just like alot of us thought, BCI was using social media. My opinion is that this included WS and the site that was shut down. Plus Facebook groups etc....

The interception warrants gave investigators 30 days to listen to cell calls and read text messages from the Wagners and place four listening devices in an R-L Carriers semi-truck. George IV and Jake Wagner were working for R-L Carriers out of the Warren County location.

They were installed in Montana when the brothers were crossing the border from Canada, according to Hagaman.

Hagaman stated to the special prosecutor that BCI had to “tickle the wires” to get the suspects to talk about the crime.

(At the time I thought they were "tickling the wires" when they put out the laser focus in the MSM.)

The prosecution presented a sheet of phone numbers that Hagaman says belonged to all four Wagners.

According to the sheet, BCI started listening to the conversations two years after the murders of all eight members of the Rhoden family.

Hagaman said they would put out feelers on SOCIAL MEDIA to try and get the Wagners to talk about the case.

BCI also sent a court order to Angela Wagner’s mother, Rita, to spur conversation between the two brothers while they were on the road and had to use cell phones to communicate because they were not face-to face with their mother and father.

Last edited: Jun 14, 2022

 

[sunshineray]

I can try to find the time stamp for you but it was at George's Bond Hearing where Canepa and Scheiderer mentioned 8,000 recordings of interest. This could include both texts and listening to phone conversations and to conversations in the work truck.

• 

Former BCI agent testifies in motions hearing for eldest Wagner​

The eldest Wagner appeared in a Pike County court Monday.

www.fox19.com

Yup, just like alot of us thought, BCI was using social media. My opinion is that this included WS and the site that was shut down. Plus Facebook groups etc....

The interception warrants gave investigators 30 days to listen to cell calls and read text messages from the Wagners and place four listening devices in an R-L Carriers semi-truck. George IV and Jake Wagner were working for R-L Carriers out of the Warren County location.

They were installed in Montana when the brothers were crossing the border from Canada, according to Hagaman.

Hagaman stated to the special prosecutor that BCI had to “tickle the wires” to get the suspects to talk about the crime.

(At the time I thought they were "tickling the wires" when they put out the laser focus in the MSM.)

The prosecution presented a sheet of phone numbers that Hagaman says belonged to all four Wagners.

According to the sheet, BCI started listening to the conversations two years after the murders of all eight members of the Rhoden family.

Hagaman said they would put out feelers on SOCIAL MEDIA to try and get the Wagners to talk about the case.

BCI also sent a court order to Angela Wagner’s mother, Rita, to spur conversation between the two brothers while they were on the road and had to use cell phones to communicate because they were not face-to face with their mother and father.

Last edited: Jun 14, 2022

Ohhh ok, no need to go looking, thanks for that info, that's a huge amount of conversations!!

 

[ColMustard]

What ya do when ya got nothing.

Yep. Was surprised to hear it again since they already settled it once. Which is pretty much what AC said when defense started in about the Ohio Constitution. They'll appeal as long as allowed and are getting paid.