OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #78

[Niner]

Elizabeth Armer continued.


James Pilcher
@jamespilcher
·
3m
Her personal documents were missing from the trip from Alaska/Missouri to Ohio. Includes application for new social security card (name change and lost card)

They were married in March 2018

They were married in March 2018. Prosecution also shows the picture of the gun she was shown in Fredericka's ktichen - she said it was Jake's hand at the time but family said not to.

She was never invited into family meetings - Jake said maybe someday would be allowed in if Angela and others would trust her.

Jake asked her to read the Bible to him while he was over the road every night.

Jake also told her he would kill her family if they ever showed up to visit her in Ohio.

She lived with Wagners in Ohio three months. Jake told her the family members took turns making the decisions. It was currently Angela in charge, but the brothers had done it before.

Family did everything together - no one would do anything alone, but perhaps George occassionally would go somewhere by himself.

George would come and go late at night 11 p.m.-3 a.m. She would hear his truck and his voice. @local12
She only had "alone time" with her husband 14 times - basically once a week.

The kids would call Angela Eminy or Eminy mommy.

After the threat - she started making secret calls while going to the library to try and get help leaving. Finally got her father to come from Texas to help you. Her bridesmaid also helped her.

She also kept bringing up the subject of leaving with the Wagners. Left July 2018, perhaps July 6. She went into a Walmart, changed clothes, left out back, and left with her father. Then switched and went to Va. with her friend. Continues to try and hide her whereabouts.

She messaged Jake to tell him she arrived safely. Then contacted by BCI at one point. Did a controlled call with Jake.

Says she told Jake during that call he should take Sophia to the doctor because she is so stressed out.

Showing pictures of the family off camera - Armer says she initiated a divorce from Jake.



link: https://twitter.com/jamespilcher



I am guessing they went to lunch. Wonder why James doesn't say anything...

 

[justtrish]

No wonder JW and AW took plea deals, all the testimony we hear day after day is just a litany of horrors relating to them, their defense teams did a good job in persuading them to take the deals as there is nothing a defense attorney could do to redeem them

I have wondered if Billy and George's attorney have ever advised them to take a deal or if they really believe they are innocent or whatever story each has told.

I've never needed a defense attorney so I really don't know how that works. Do they ask their client for their version? Do they ask as little as possible? Do they review the evidence first? What if the defense thinks their client is guilty can they not agree to defend them?

 

[dgfred]

Poisoning seems to be their go-to option if/after child molesting doesn't stick.

 

[Dudly]

I couldn't agree less. I think she's intelligent, very articulate and answering what's asked in her own way and words. Hindsight is a powerful tool to have under your belt. She lived all of what she's describing, she doesn't need coaching to bring it all to the surface. AJMO

Hard to believe she is doing so well with her answers. I hope she holds up against the cross exam. They will be brutal to her, I am sure.

 

[dgfred]

Maybe GW and BW look at trials as a way to get out of prison for a bit... since they know it will be their last of being 'outside'.

 

[Dudly]

This story will take a miniseries to tell. A movie won’t be long enough. They probably could make a movie about just the 14 weeks she was with them. My opinions only…

 

[joe jones]

Perhaps the defense will be gentle with her.

this was all post the murders, she was JW wife not GW wife, and all her testimony that relates to GW was he lived in the home with his mother and brother and their children, as much under the influence of his mother as any of them, he did nothing overtly nasty to her,

it seems that AW had convinced her sons that she and she alone would be able to protect their children, and so she continued to manipulate them into thinking any new woman that came into the family was just like the previous ones, I think she possibly enjoyed destroying her sons attempts at happiness,

and each time the ties that bound her sons to her got tighter with each woman she convinced them was attempting to harm their children, and once she got rid of them, she had her sons and GK to herself,

I expect after a while her sons possibly chafed at living under her control and so she would engineer something that made her boys fearful of what may happen to their children, and AW once again ensured her boys stayed with her as only, she could protect the children

as Beth said AW made a bad marriage, and it had been over for years, BW wasn't even living at Bethel Hill he always chose to live at Flying W, so all AW had to pay for her were her two sons, and all she wanted was her grandchildren, and IMO she did everything she could maintain the status quo

 

[CIA Team Member]

OMG! She had to sneak out of Walmart? That poor girl! Ole Rita was involved more than I imagined!

YUP! AW learned her behavior from someone.

 

[iridized]

All witnesses are prepared/coached by both the prosecutors and defense. Are we saying something nefarious is happening?

No, if you are asking me I said *overly coached*.

Hard to believe she is doing so well with her answers. I hope she holds up against the cross exam. They will be brutal to her, I am sure.

I think she will hold up just fine during cross. What I am hoping for is her answering spontaneously, in her own words, in her own way. I believe in what she has said, but do think she would have come across better had she not been coached as much as to what to cover in each answer she gave.

 

[Chelly]

No wonder JW and AW took plea deals, all the testimony we hear day after day is just a litany of horrors relating to them, their defense teams did a good job in persuading them to take the deals as there is nothing a defense attorney could do to redeem them

Agree about the JW and AW plea deals. The jury now has a vivid picture of the evil of JW and AW.

 

[Pru2U]

I think she was lucky to get away with her life. I think what may have saved her was the fact that the Wagners were already under investigation. If she had an unfortunate accident, the Wagners knew they would be immediate suspects. moo

I've seen a few others say this but frankly, I don't think being suspects would have been a deterrence. Look at the many fires & insurance claims they left in their wake.

They had disdain for everyone outside their sphere, no loyalty, no respect for the law or even human life. At that time, they were liars, thieves & murderers with no consequences.

They were paranoid about BCI (they were a paranoid bunch anyway) but BCI was merely a nuisance they had come to believe they could out smart and outlast, and if not, they would just kill them too. They had a plan.

 

[sunshineray]

AJMO

EA is actually one of the best witnesses on the stand that I've ever seen. Thoughtful before and while answer the question asked. Concise with little embellishments but lots of pertinent details to the question asked...unless the question just deserves a yes or no. I think her testimony, so far as I'm not caught up yet, has made a very clear picture into the W household and especially the conditions those kids were being raised under.

Again, AJMO

 

[CIA Team Member]

This family really thought they truly was religious, and like the Boondocks Saint’s they thought that they killed the Rhoden/Giley family in the name of religion/custody, (Crazy) and was scared of cemetery (Why) surely they didn’t believe in the walking dead show?

As I've learned over the past few decades fundamentalists will make everything they WANT to happen are means to an end in their favor. Some can't stand government but accessing food stamps is "there for us to take." JMO

 

[Betty P]

She lived with them, saw & heard it all; they were basically her captors and still she didn’t see. Hard pill to swallow from outside looking in but it (almost) helps me understand a little better how others close to them…AW’s mom, half brother CN, maybe BW’s brother & sister…how they could couldn’t see what was right under their noses & remain steadfast in their defense of W-4

It's a psychological defense mechanism called "denial". Pretending that something abnormal is normal as a way of protecting herself and dealing with a situation she couldn't change.

Denial - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In psychoanalytic theory, denial is a defense mechanism in which a person is faced with a fact that is too uncomfortable to accept and rejects it instead, insisting that it is not true despite what may be overwhelming evidence.

JMO, also some "reaction formation" and a few other defense mechanisms. The things people do unconsciously to protect themselves in terrible situations, while not harming others.

 

[CIA Team Member]

Even thought Beth was older than Tabatha and Hannah at the time they met and the grooming (my opinion of what happened to them) started, she was young in years as far as life experiences go. I would say somewhat sheltered and naïve is a good word. If she truly trusted her pastor and he vouched for the W's I can see how easy it would be to dismiss things. She did not life with them until after they were married. Then it seems the reason for getting married was because they were moving back to Ohio so it was rushed up in time because of that. If there was no move, I don't think she would have ever married Jake. She would have seen signs I am sure if they dated for say 2 years then got married. But because it was rushed, she married him and moved with him and then was hit very quickly with the reality of the situation.

All I can think is I am thankful she didn't get pregnant in that 4 months time.

My sound is a bit off today on youtube but didn't AC ask Beth "do you have any children?" And after a bit of a pause, hanging her head, she replied "no, not living."
I'm assuming if it was Jake's AC would've brought it up. JMO

 

[sunshineray]

Hard to believe she is doing so well with her answers. I hope she holds up against the cross exam. They will be brutal to her, I am sure.

I was just thinking about that. I din't think it will go well at all for the defense if they do. JMO

 

[dgfred]

Straying off topic a bit but- what is the significance of the 'bug catcher' thing? To catch bullets? Something else? To show who was buying stuff?

 

[Betty P]

No wonder JW and AW took plea deals, all the testimony we hear day after day is just a litany of horrors relating to them, their defense teams did a good job in persuading them to take the deals as there is nothing a defense attorney could do to redeem them

They're horrors relating to all of them, as it was done as a group. The difference is that Billy and GW4 have different coping/defense mechanisms in their personalities. Unlike Jake and Angela - Billy and GW4 think their behavior wasn't bad, was justified. They can block it out, deny it and tell themselves it wasn't their fault or the victims deserved it or even deny it completely. In their way of thinking, survival is the most important goal and their unconscious mind protects them from the horrors of what they've done.

Jake and Angela were finally able to accept reality and think rationally and realistically about what happened and made their choices from there. Their motives in taking a plea deal may be self centered or cyncial instead of altruistic, but they were at least able to admit the truth and face up to their actions.

 

[Pru2U]

Perhaps the defense will be gentle with her.

Maybe not gentle but I do think they will have to be careful in their cross examination. She just testified to some serious trauma. They don't want to appear to the jury to be indifferent to that or victim blaming.

I think they will also have to be careful bringing up George's name & asking about his participation. She might tell them more than they want the jury to hear.

And finally, AC has her back.

 

[Cool Cats]

Here is my question.

Every single shot from that SKS went wild. Hit the porch rail, the packages of flooring on the porch, the door jam, the stereo, the wall adjoining a bedroom and by accident hit Chris in the arm.

If George was such a skilled hunter (CN) and he owned the SKS (Jakes list) how come he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with his own gun?

The answer? Because he was not the one shooting that SKS. Neither was Jake. Both were skilled with guns. So why did the shots go wild? Because someone much weaker was firing that SKS .30 cal gun. Someone not strong enough to handle the recoil on it. Every time it was shot the recoil caused the barrel to go up or sideways thus causing the shots to go wild and hit all over the place.

Angie was firing that gun. The recoil was causing the shots to go every where. Who was at the scenes? Jake and Angie and maybe Billy.

JMO

You forgot shooting bullet under house through living room floor.

If you think this is all because Angie's a bad shot, then that proves they would not have taken her along to do any shooting. She would have been in the way and a liability. Plus, the Wagner men were not sharp shooters.
Shooting deer is different then what they did out in Chris's yard.

Canepa said the Wagners knew the Rhodens were armed and knew what they were capable of, and this is a reason they did the fake custody papers right before the murders, In case Jake or George were killed. Thus, they couldn't chance Angie being killed.

Angie slept with those kids and now we know they were gone a long time, hours. So she wouldn't leave them that long.

And nothing has been said about women's boot prints being found. Why are women's boots in evidence? Maybe they are on her Walmart receipt.