OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #79

[Caylee Advocate]

It's an defense attorney that has to be death penalty certified, not the jury. The jurors have to acknowledge that they are not morally opposed to the DP

And may I add that only ONE of the defense attorneys have to be DP certified, Nash is NOT. Since I don't have a link and only an email response, I will state it as JMO.

 

[justtrish]

No but I'm not going to deny some dysfunction. I think every family has some disfunction. My boy and 1 of my grandsons are risk takers. So was my baby brother, he's no longer with us, been gone longer than he was here on earth. Just doesn't seem real, and I am a worrying grandma. So I go RZR riding with them,LOL.

All families have dysfunction! I struggle to find a word other than "normal" so that's what I'll use.. probable maybe a good word. Some dysfunction is normal. We all have struggles, some don't communicate well, some are co dependent on someone, some have addictions, and even maybe some are too nosey and into other family members business, etc. I'd say all of that has some levels of "normal". When someone's entire world is wrapped up in controlling their family members, who they can interact with and it's manipulative to the point you are saying people are poisoning you and the kids?? Telling your grown and married kids when/how they can have relations, having joint accounts and paying their bills, getting your kids roped into insurance bad deals.. it just goes on and on. At some point the W's just went off the rails and right past the last station on the normal train into something else entirely.

 

[Pru2U]

Maybe prison is what she needed (besides being punished for these crimes). Maybe she needed saved from herself. In jail at least it's structure and not that I want her to have peace, but she can't hurt anyone in prison. If she is confined and isn't a pain to the guards and can just live out her years and die in prison, I'd be okay with that. She's suffering not having contract with her kids/grandkids.

The loss of control for a control freak would be torture. A torture well deserved & long overdue in this case.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

No but I'm not going to deny some dysfunction. I think every family has some disfunction. My boy and 1 of my grandsons are risk takers. So was my baby brother, he's no longer with us, been gone longer than he was here on earth. Just doesn't seem real, and I am a worrying grandma. So I go RZR riding with them,LOL.

No family is perfect, but a major difference between a typical family and an enmeshed one is controlling the thoughts and choices of your children or preventing what psychologists call "separation and individuation" in late adolescence. The goal of raising kids is to raise individuals who have their own minds and make their own choices. That doesn't mean we don't worry or help them or do what we can.

I''m no expert on the Rhodens, but Chris, Sr. helped his family members, even buying a home for his ex-wife and building an addition, which gave Hanna a place to bring Kylie. That's support. He didn't pick her boyfriends or try to isolate Sophia from the Wagners. Chris's cousin was living with him and from all accounts, various Rhodens, Manleys, and Gilleys could come and go. Nobody in the Rhoden family was trying to control Jake or Hannah Hazel.

It's a huge mistake to project our own healthy, normal experiences--which can cover a range of lifestyles and relationship patterns--onto a family who has committed mass murder. When you are dealing with people who are disordered in some way (in this case, a family that habitually engages in obvious anti-social behavior), we risk minimizing their crimes when we overlay our own mostly healthy choices over their criminally inclined ones.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Jake Wagner “clearly stated that George did not shoot anybody … was not supposed to go with Jake and Billy on this murder spree, and only went at the last second to protect Jake from Billy, who it was thought might kill Jake at the end of the series of aggravated murders.”


Jake said it. Not George's attorneys. Parker was just repeating what Jake said in his proffer.

JMO

And I for one am thinking WHY would Billy want to kill Jake? I have an idea, but it's just an idea so no proof, hmmm.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

It's done everyday.

I can see what you are saying. If you buy a car from a car dealership, and you finance that car, you have to fill out an application, show ID, and provide proof of insurance then you are (here) given a paper dealers tag. You have 30 days to go to a tag agent, pay excise tax, get a tag and then a new title to the vehicle will be mailed to you with your name on it.

But if you buy a vehicle from an individual, pay cash for it, that individual signs the back of the title and gives you the keys and pockets the money. You do not have to show an ID or proof of insurance to do this. That is perfectly legal.

You then have 30 days from the date the previous owner signed the back of the title to go to a tag agent, pay excise tax, show an ID, show proof of insurance and change the title over to your name.

Both ways are perfectly legal. Both are done millions of times in this country every time a vehicle is sold.

JMO

I just have to ask... I wonder who notarized that daggone title?

 

[Niner]

Monday, October 24th:
*Trial continues (Day 29) (@ 9am ET) - OH - Pike County 8 people dead: Christopher Rhoden, Sr. (40), his ex-wife, Dana Manley Rhoden (37), their three children, Clarence "Frankie" Rhoden (20), Christopher Jr. (16), Hanna Mae (19); Frankie's fiancée, Hannah Hazel Gilley (20), Christopher Rhoden Sr.'s brother, Kenneth Rhoden (44), & a cousin, Gary Rhoden (37). Hanna Rhoden's baby girl (5 days old), another baby (6 mos.) & a young child (3) were unharmed. (April 21-22, 2016, Pebbles) – for *George Washington Wagner IV (27/now 31) (Jakes’ bro) indicted (11/12/18), arrested (11/13/18), charged (11/15/18) & arraigned (11/28/18) with 8 counts aggravated murder, (plus gun specifications on each), 1 count of 1st degree conspiracy, 4 counts of 1st degree aggravated burglary, 1 count of 5th degree unlawful possession of dangerous ordnance, 3 counts of 3rd degree evidence tampering, 1 count of 5th degree forgery, 1 count of 5th degree unauthorized use of computer or telecommunications, 1 count of 4th degree interception of wire, oral or electronic communication, 1 count of 5th degree obstructing justice, & 1 count of 1st degree engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity. Plead not guilty. Held without bond. DA will seek the DP. Per Jake’s plea agreement, DP is off the table if his testimony is truthful.
Trial began on 8/29/22 with final jury selection & the jury was seated on 8/30/22. 12 Jurors & 6 alternates. Jury: (9 women & 3 men) & 6 alternates: (5 women & 1 man). 9/30/22: Ill juror replaced with alternate. 12 jurors & 5 alternates. Jury: (9 women & 3 men) & 5 alternates (4 women & 1 man).
Trial began with opening statements began on Monday, 9/12/22. (Trial is scheduled for 8 to 9 weeks (56-63 days). No COURT on 10/27/22.
Crime info & court hearings from 11/28/18 thru 9/6/22 & Trial Day 1-27 (9/12 to 10/20/22) reference post #651 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-78.640545/page-33
10/21/22 Friday, Trial Day 28: Attorney Nash is objecting to Elizabeth Armer testifying as they didn't get her address. Canepa says even if they had her address it doesn't mean she would talk to them! Defense objects to her testifying, Judge overules.
State witness: Elizabeth Armer, ex-wife of Jake.
for more info see post #694 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-78.640545/page-35
for more info see posts #709 & 720 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-78.640545/page-36
for more info see post #769 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-78.640545/page-39
for more info see post #804 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-78.640545/page-41
for more info see post #880 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-78.640545/page-44
for more info see post #1028 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-78.640545/page-52
State witness: BCI Special Agent Ryan Scheiderer, lead investigator.
for more info see post #887 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-78.640545/page-45
for more info see post #1028 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-78.640545/page-52
Trial continues on Monday, 10/24/22.

 

[ohioexpat63]

And I for one am thinking WHY would Billy want to kill Jake? I have an idea, but it's just an idea so no proof, hmmm.

Such a tease.

 

[ohioexpat63]

All he needs is one jury member and we will be doing this all over again. We will never know what the jury has because of the opt outs. So, we are stuck with speculation and tearing apart each word spoken instead of looking at the evidence as a whole. I'm biased. I'm 100% with the prosecutors, although I wish Wilson was lead because of his demeanor and how he gets the witness to present the evidence. AC is a capable attorney. If she can't get a conviction then it won't be because of her. Jmo

 

[Dudly]

Okay, let me see if I can explain this.

When you go to buy a vehicle, from an individual or a car lot, the title of said vehicle is in whoever owns the vehicles name. So the owner of the vehicle signs the back of the title. That was Silas W.

As an example to clarify:
I own a vehicle. At that point the title to my vehicle is in my name. My name is on the front of the title as the owner of the vehicle. You come to me and give me money to purchase the vehicle. I then sign my name on the back of the title and give you the signed title and the keys to the vehicle and wish you luck as you drive off in your newly purchased vehicle.

So as I said Silas W signed the title as the owner of the truck which was purchased.

The title is supposed to then be taken to a tag agent and be changed over into the new owners name. This is not always done. I suspect Billy or Angie never changed that title over so it remained in Silas W's name. Billy then gave it to Katy W who took the title to the tag agent the next day and changed it into her name.

I hope this helps to clarify this.

JMO

I agree that they likely never had the truck title legally changed to a Wagner as owner. It is something done often by people that buy and sell vehicles regularly. That kept them from being associated with that truck with title searches by BCI. I doubt BCI would have ever known they had that truck temporarily if JW didn’t tell them in his proffer. It does not sound like the new owner questioned anything about that truck… MOO…

 

[Dudly]

All he needs is one jury member and we will be doing this all over again. We will never know what the jury has because of the opt outs. So, we are stuck with speculation and tearing apart each word spoken instead of looking at the evidence as a whole. I'm biased. I'm 100% with the prosecutors, although I wish Wilson was lead because of his demeanor and how he gets the witness to present the evidence. AC is a capable attorney. If she can't get a conviction then it won't be because of her. Jmo

I can understand why the Defense didn’t want Wilson to be allowed on the Prosecution team…MOO…

 

[Dudly]

Thinking as a juror hearing Jake changed his story until he told the truth (AC’s view), wouldn’t you be thinking ‘or Jake changed his story until he found one the prosecutor’s wanted to hear’? I’m pretty cynical and that is what I would think and discount Jake’s testimony. I’ll be shocked if the defense doesn’t bring this up for the jury’s consideration.

MOO

But, remember if Defense calls JW out as a liar, it could reinstate the DP. Making him our as a liar is a slippery slope for both sides. How do you determine which parts are truth and which are lies… MOO

 

[Dudly]

So if I'm understanding you correctly, you are leaning towards the idea that GW4 lived in the same house, spent all of his time with his mom and brother and sometimes his dad, and never knew they were planning this massacre? And then spent all of his time with them after the murders and never knew or helped cover up what they did to 8 people? Never once questioned them?

I'm just trying to wrap my head around this .. I understand some of what you are saying but I also think the reason we are hearing more about Jake and Angela is because this whole case is about custody of Jakes child... not GW4's. They have to show the text messages between Jake and Hannah .. and the screen shots that Angela took from getting on Hannah's fb account to show the motive behind this senseless act. Of course this is going to look like the JW show .. but JW did not pull this off by himself .. and he certainly did not pull it off with just his mom.

I also would like to know where AW's tattoo is .. the three men sure wanted bragging rights after the fact. I'm surprised she didn't want in on that. She could have had Anime Mommy put on her bicep. Or whatever the heck she called herself.

All the evidence has not been presented at this point. All the comments about no evidence against GWIV is just encouraging his Defense team. MOO

 

[Dudly]

No family is perfect, but a major difference between a typical family and an enmeshed one is controlling the thoughts and choices of your children or preventing what psychologists call "separation and individuation" in late adolescence. The goal of raising kids is to raise individuals who have their own minds and make their own choices. That doesn't mean we don't worry or help them or do what we can.

I''m no expert on the Rhodens, but Chris, Sr. helped his family members, even buying a home for his ex-wife and building an addition, which gave Hanna a place to bring Kylie. That's support. He didn't pick her boyfriends or try to isolate Sophia from the Wagners. Chris's cousin was living with him and from all accounts, various Rhodens, Manleys, and Gilleys could come and go. Nobody in the Rhoden family was trying to control Jake or Hannah Hazel.

It's a huge mistake to project our own healthy, normal experiences--which can cover a range of lifestyles and relationship patterns--onto a family who has committed mass murder. When you are dealing with people who are disordered in some way (in this case, a family that habitually engages in obvious anti-social behavior), we risk minimizing their crimes when we overlay our own mostly healthy choices over their criminally inclined ones.

That addition on DR’s house was there when CRsr bought it. He didn’t add it… MOO.

 

[LMDlong]

Does anyone know who will be testifying today ?

 

[iulia]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1584520958303346688

https://twitter.com/x/status/1584521686300659712

https://twitter.com/x/status/1584522531733544961

Man, I hope he opts in!

 

[ohioexpat63]

I imagine the stress level by all people involved are at max level.

 

[iulia]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1584522743638130688

 

[Betty P]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1584520958303346688

https://twitter.com/x/status/1584521686300659712

https://twitter.com/x/status/1584522531733544961

Man, I hope he opts in!

Dang, I'll be out running around this morning. Hope to catch it later!

 

[ohioexpat63]

Dang, I'll be out running around this morning. Hope to catch it later!

Enjoy your jog!