GUILTY PLEA DEAL ACCEPTED - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #113

[Chloegirl]

In hindsight it seems as if there were several creepy incidents leading up to the murders.
Still
- you could see into the house from the outside without blinds or curtains, and the
- locks on the doors have been described as less than secure, and
- no one was calling the police to report that a guy seemed to be watching them?
As a parent I’m not understanding why proactive measures were not taken.

It isn’t a bother to police to call and have them walk around a property to check out someone that seems creepy.

When I was in college in an apartment on the first floor a roommate had gone home for the weekend and I was there alone. In the wee hours this drunk guy begins banging on the door upset yelling for his girlfriend. All of the apartments looked the same- he was just in the wrong building. He would go away then return to bang on the door again, and then began climbing over the wooden stockade fence that went around the tiny porch outside the sliding glass door.
I’m from the country part of Texas- so I had a pistol in there and a bat. I called the cops, for both of our safety as I had a pistol in there and was getting prepared to use it if he came through the sliding door. Cops came and he had wandered off- they could not find him.
You don’t creep around peoples houses or you could get shot. Idaho isn’t that different from Texas I’m surprised these girls were not armed, especially if they thought they needed to walk around with golf clubs to check things out.

IMO

Note to landlords! It is imperative that you do a better job than this, provide blinds and curtains, security lights, secure locks and deadbolts and do not leave it up to your tenants to secure where they live. JMOO

Take note college students! This is why they donated the house and then tore it down. Liability. JMOO

 

[waitin'4thewrld2chg]

I’m still a few pages back, but the discussion that I'm reading about how to think of and regard persons such as BK is interesting to me. Myself, I just don’t ever see people as monsters. I see humans who have done monstrous things. By the same token, I don’t see people as evil. I see them as humans who have done evil things. I honestly can’t say I hate anyone. I hate and loathe things that some humans do now and have done across time.

Mostly I come from the angle of wanting to know WHY atrocities are perpetrated, with an eye to the prevention of future atrocities. I see persons such as the killer in question as walking laboratories, with their physical brains as mazes that probably hold a lot of observable aberrations to be seen in life and upon autopsy. Not to mention the stuff that can’t be measured in a person but could still be studied via social and psychological sciences, if permitted.

I am repulsed by this killer, but by the same token, if he were starving or dying of thirst, I would help him out, provided I was not at personal risk. I’d give him a blanket or toss him a fan. I don’t wish this individual agony in prison. The mere fact of not being able to walk out the door of a place of confinement is a good start toward experiencing a stifling feeling I’ve never had to live for one second of my life. I picture this killer probably in protective custody for all of his remaining years unless he acts up and gets some solitary. If a special arrangement allowed him to play checkers with another PC prisoner on a Tuesday and they played nice, I would not be incensed. Society as the jailer should stay steadily humane, in my opinion.

I believe brain science is probably just barely developing in terms of helping us understand these few who can do what BK did. I would prefer we explore inner space until we have some better answers about aberration….and leave Mars for later, fascinating as the soil on that planet looks to even me. People such as BK may be examples of the perfect storm of nature and nurture gone off the rails, despite the fact that he apparently had parents who loved him. I expect BK exercised a lot of free agency during the commission of this crime, but what types of compulsions were going on? What was the maelstrom? Maybe upon autopsy, seeing the mess in that brain of his, someone might say, “We should have let him play checkers twice a week instead of once”.

I opine here with no intention whatsoever of making light of the horror that the victims suffered and their families are suffering. Four lives violently taken at the cusp of adulthood is unthinkable. We are all left to shudder til the end of our days over it. I just feel we as a society need to know more about what lies behind the actions of a perpetrator like this so that these types of crimes become history and don’t remain current events.

 

[Warwick7]

I was speaking of Kaylee's door. We don't know she started in Maddies bed, just that she ended there. If her room door was closed when BK climbed the stairs and Maddies was open, he'd have likely gone to the easy room. Kaylee being mobile might be her hearing a noise. Getting up, leaving her door open, and going to Maddies room where she was attacked. BK might not have been put off by a dog if it was in a room with the door shut at the time, assuming he even knew the dog was there. The door to the room with Murphy in it MIGHT have been closed at the time BK came up the stairs. That was what I was saying. An alternative possibility.

About the front door, if it was only partially open, DM would almost have to had to close it to get past on the way to BFs room. The stairwell leads right to the front door. She didn't say anything about the front door being open when heading to BFs room that I recall. I might have missed it.

BBM
That is the first thing that came to my mind, she would have saw the door open.
It's November so she's not going to leave it open. To me a door open would be significant for DM to remember---because an open door represents a threat/lack of safety. And she was already scared. Yet, she says nothing of an open door.

Now, I don't want to down play any witness. The door could have been wide open like he said or possibly, maybe someone is embellishing. I don't know, but if there was more than one person stating it was open then I would believe him. Maybe we will know more as more documents come out.

 

[Warwick7]

BBM

THIS!!! Genius!

The front door is literally right at the bottom of the stairs to the first floor. To get to Bethany's room, she would come down the stairs and be standing right in front of it before turning left to go down the hall to B's room which is partially under the stairs.

Now, DM was freaked, it was dark, and she was running. But if the front door had been open a signifcant amount it would not only have been visually obvious since their is the outside light over that door and it was on--not to mention if it was open even 1/3 of the way she would have had to close it to get around it to go down to BF's room. She would have also felt the cold from it being open.

One possibility is that Xana had closed the door but accidentally had not pushed it that last tiny bit that makes it latch. Wind could have blown it in after DM had gone down.

Another thing that calls the door being fully open into question--from the 1st floor bathroom door you can see if the front door is fully open. Given the difference in time between when BF & DM woke up and when they called EA, I would think that one of them would have ran down the hall and used the 1st floor bathroom during that time. If the door was open any significant amount, they should have seen it then or felt the cold air.

Was there only the 1 person reporting that they saw the front door open before HJ arrived?

I just don't feel at this time that the door was open.

 

[FoxxTraxx]

In hindsight it seems as if there were several creepy incidents leading up to the murders.
Still
- you could see into the house from the outside without blinds or curtains, and the
- locks on the doors have been described as less than secure, and
- no one was calling the police to report that a guy seemed to be watching them?
As a parent I’m not understanding why proactive measures were not taken.

It isn’t a bother to police to call and have them walk around a property to check out someone that seems creepy.

When I was in college in an apartment on the first floor a roommate had gone home for the weekend and I was there alone. In the wee hours this drunk guy begins banging on the door upset yelling for his girlfriend. All of the apartments looked the same- he was just in the wrong building. He would go away then return to bang on the door again, and then began climbing over the wooden stockade fence that went around the tiny porch outside the sliding glass door.
I’m from the country part of Texas- so I had a pistol in there and a bat. I called the cops, for both of our safety as I had a pistol in there and was getting prepared to use it if he came through the sliding door. Cops came and he had wandered off- they could not find him.
You don’t creep around peoples houses or you could get shot. Idaho isn’t that different from Texas I’m surprised these girls were not armed, especially if they thought they needed to walk around with golf clubs to check things out.

IMO

I have a possible explanation for some of this. According to the book 'While Idaho Slept' (Reuben Appelman), LE visited 1122 King Rd at least twice for noise complaints. The first was 8/16/22 and then again on 9/2/22. No one was ticketed for noise violations, but the second visit was after midnight and the LE officer was a lot more annoyed.

The officer said to Xana on 9/2 ''If we have to come back here you are getting a ticket''. Xana agreed to tell everyone in the house what the officer said. I wonder if BF and DM were reluctant to call LE for the prowler incidents and on 11/13 because they were somehow worried about LE's reaction at being called to the house? Both BF and DM are the type to avoid confrontation.

 

[Warwick7]

Don't know if this is readable. Neighbor reported to LE that front door of 1122 King Rd. was open between approximately 9AM to 10 AM on 11/13/22. Neighbor didn't give it much thought at the time because it was a party house. The homicides were not yet discovered.

Perhaps someone stopped by earlier and opened the door to see if anyone was awake but got no response and didn't pull the front door shut?

They would have needed the key pad code. That is how Hunter got in. But that really is a good option if infact the door was open.

 

[jesse]

If sheath-leaving liar took the food, he's probably the one who put the order in in the first place, jmo.
That order left Pullman probably at around the same time he did.

I find it difficult to believe he took it, but if he did, he placed that order, jmo.

We would know if he placed the order. It would have to have come from Xana's account.

 

[Warwick7]

I saw that. And if that person is the only person saying it, I have some doubts as to whether or not that person got their dates straight.

So say that witness is correct that he saw the door on that date at that time at that house open--I haven't seen any reports say that DM or BF told the police that when they exited their room to either A) go outside to wait for Hunter J or B) when they exited after Hunter J got there that the door was open at that time (it is not clear to me if they waited outside for Hunter J or waited in BF's room). I don't see any reports where DM or BF told police that when Hunter arrived he said something like "hey, you guys, do you know your front door is wide open?" Given that DM and BF were spooked about the possibility that she saw someone in the house in the night and that's why they asked HJ to come over, I would think either the girls or Hunter would immediately notice and see importance in that front door being open at noon on Sunday. And that either Hunter J, DM, or BF would have told the police about it.

So if I'm to believe the door was open before DM came downstairs to BF's room, it could only have been open a tiny bit or she would have noticed even in her panic. Sure, wind could have then blown it open after she came down in order for it to be seen to be open from 9-10 ish.....but if neither DM/BF/or Hunter J said it was open at noon when Hunter J arrived.....then we would have to believe that some random person came up and closed it between 10ish and noon? Or the wind magically sucked it closed after it had blown it open? Or Murphy was a very polite dog and he went down and closed the wide open door (which then DM, BF, or HJ would have noticed the front door, which they said was locked, was unlocked when HJ came in or when the girls exited to meet him).

If it's a choice between the witness being wrong or the door opening and then being shut again after the person saw it (and no one from the house or who went to the house to check things out for the girls reporting it to police), then to me the odds are on the witness having the date wrong, especially if was common for that person to walk their dog on that route and around that time.

I have heard in so many crime cases where witnesses are absolutely positive they saw something on a specific day/time...but further investigation proves that they were mistaken as to the day/time.

Excellent analysis.

 

[jesse]

The officer said to Xana on 9/2 ''If we have to come back here you are getting a ticket''. Xana agreed to tell everyone in the house what the officer said. I wonder if BF and DM were reluctant to call LE for the prowler incidents and on 11/13 because they were somehow worried about LE's reaction at being called to the house? Both BF and DM are the type to avoid coconfrontation

There's bodycam footage of a few of those police visits.

I've often thought that that wasn't the sole reason no one called 9/11 earlier, but may have been a contributing factor. There's so much underage drinking going on, aside from the noise complaints. College kids do NOT think of calling the police as a first course of action. They call their friends, which they did.

 

[Warwick7]

(Snipped and bolded by me)

The stairs from the first to the second floor are immediately to the left of the front door. As this screenshot from the first nighttime bodycam footage shows:

View attachment 604327
Source

the front door opens in such a way that Dylan wouldn’t be blocked from leaving the stairs on her way to Bethany’s room if the door were opened all the way. Nonetheless, I think Dylan would have closed the front door if she saw that it was open. She was just scared by an intruder, after all.




View attachment 604352
Screenshot of Supp 20 of the Moscow Police investigation documents:

Note that if the neighbor was correct that the front door was open during his dog walk from 9 to 10 am on the morning of the murders, then the front door would have been open when the murderer returned to Moscow for the last time from 9:12 am to 9:21 am. Now that’s a chilling thought.

View attachment 604354

Source: Probable Cause Affidavit

Finally, here’s a screenshot of a TikTok video that shows the plot of land where the house on 1122 King Road once stood, posted 3 days ago:

View attachment 604348
Source: 1122 King Road - after house torn down

The murderer would have been able to hide quite nicely in the woods beside or behind the house when he first started hanging out in the area in July 2022. Even with the thinned out trees of late fall, he could no doubt watch the lit-up house under cover of darkness. Perfect for lurking, surveilling, scaring Kaylee, and possibly befriending Kaylee’s labradoodle, Murphy (dog-lover that he is).

IMO

Wow.....returning to the scene of the crime. Maybe he wanted to find his sheath. But, that all would be super duper risky.

 

[10ofRods]

I have a cousin in prison (one I only met when I was 8 or 9 years old b/c they live far away). I had heard he was sentenced to life on a three strikes law. Then he sent me a facebook request so I was wary but said ok. Then I notice sometimes his selfies have white cinderblock walls- the type I had in college years ago. Then his profile goes down and a few months later, new profile adds me again. Someone the guy with a life sentence has a phone and facebook accounts- CRAZY scary and creepy. I think my cousin would get caught, they would force him to delete the account and then he would add another. He adds everyone- all the cousins- back and forth with his parents- miss you, hope you are good etc. I was so freaked out when I realized he was still in prison I looked up his record and he is in trouble all the time- has been for the last 25 years, escaped, I think he has like a year added up in solitary because he breaks all these rules- but he has a facebook page and he is taking selfies.

That *could* happen with Inmate 163###, we may get to bear witness. From what I've read about IMSI, it's one of the toughest prisons in the US - but the inmates do get layered privileges, which is true everywhere (only way to control them short or medium term).

If someone is in solitary, they often pose specific problems if they aren't sufficiently stimulated/in digital touch with the outside world. It can keep many doctors and nurses busy. Probably makes more sense to let them go online - although if I were the director of a prison, it would be quite limited. Would I permit Facebook? Nope. Because that's an open forum where children are present.

JMO

 

[Warwick7]

If Kaylee walked into the room (as Maddie was being murdered? or after?) how would she have got onto the bed the other side of Maddie? She was found on the bed between Maddie and the wall.

I feel KG got up to get Maddie's help ringing Jake. Maddie might have been just sitting on her bed.

KG comes in and the two of them continue to call and text Jake. If KG had her back resting on the wall MM might have said "you keep trying and getting so tired Im laying down." So KG tucks her legs in and Maddie lays down. Now KG is in on the inside (still trying to reach Jake).

At some point they cover up with the pink blanket and eventually KG falls asleep.

 

[Warwick7]

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[jesse]

His Master's Asst. Prof at DeSales, MB, is the one who gave the Murderer a glowing recommendation. She said she had only other recommended one other Masters Student to a Doctoral Program in her 10 years.

She thought the Murderer was extremely bright and intelligent. She sounded rather impressed by him.

<snipped>

A former university professor said the accused killer was “one of my best students, ever” — and that the then-master’s candidate was one of only two students she has recommended to a Ph.D. program.

MB, an associate professor at DeSales University in Pennsylvania, told the Daily Mail that Kohberger, who was arrested in the murders of four University of Idaho students, was a “great writer” and “brilliant student.”

MOO

I'm sorry, but I read some of his papers, and they were thoroughly unimpressive. Thoroughly.

 

[Cindizzi]

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[jesse]

That *could* happen with Inmate 163###, we may get to bear witness. From what I've read about IMSI, it's one of the toughest prisons in the US - but the inmates do get layered privileges, which is true everywhere (only way to control them short or medium term).

If someone is in solitary, they often pose specific problems if they aren't sufficiently stimulated/in digital touch with the outside world. It can keep many doctors and nurses busy. Probably makes more sense to let them go online - although if I were the director of a prison, it would be quite limited. Would I permit Facebook? Nope. Because that's an open forum where children are present.

JMO

I'm pretty sure the tablets are very well locked down. I highly doubt Facebook is allowed.

 

[AngTxGal]

I have a possible explanation for some of this. According to the book 'While Idaho Slept' (Reuben Appelman), LE visited 1122 King Rd at least twice for noise complaints. The first was 8/16/22 and then again on 9/2/22. No one was ticketed for noise violations, but the second visit was after midnight and the LE officer was a lot more annoyed.

The officer said to Xana on 9/2 ''If we have to come back here you are getting a ticket''. Xana agreed to tell everyone in the house what the officer said. I wonder if BF and DM were reluctant to call LE for the prowler incidents and on 11/13 because they were somehow worried about LE's reaction at being called to the house? Both BF and DM are the type to avoid confrontation.

That is a great point, maybe they thought they were not in good standing with cops and so they didn’t call. Campus cops and LE near college campuses are pretty easy going. My brother in law has been police chief for a large campus here for many years. Oh the stories

Noise violations are a common annoyance on and near campus- but cops know campuses are ripe locations for underage drinking, DUI, peeping Toms, sexual assault, burglary, and car theft.
It is an ongoing challenge to maintain campus safety- have cops that patrol campus, transportation to commuter lots even after dark, and emergency call boxes spaced along walking paths. And- on football home game weekends campuses are even crazier.

King Road is not on campus, but campus is across the street, and perps don’t stop at curbs.
Students and cops need to have a solid relationship so cops will be called when an issue arises.

My guess is campuses and college cities all over the US will take this tragedy as reason to review what they can do to help make students safer. I hope so, it is painful to imagine young women being afraid and not knowing exactly what to do.

IMO

 

[AngTxGal]

I have a cousin in prison (one I only met when I was 8 or 9 years old b/c they live far away). I had heard he was sentenced to life on a three strikes law. Then he sent me a facebook request so I was wary but said ok. Then I notice sometimes his selfies have white cinderblock walls- the type I had in college years ago. Then his profile goes down and a few months later, new profile adds me again. Someone the guy with a life sentence has a phone and facebook accounts- CRAZY scary and creepy. I think my cousin would get caught, they would force him to delete the account and then he would add another. He adds everyone- all the cousins- back and forth with his parents- miss you, hope you are good etc. I was so freaked out when I realized he was still in prison I looked up his record and he is in trouble all the time- has been for the last 25 years, escaped, I think he has like a year added up in solitary because he breaks all these rules- but he has a facebook page and he is taking selfies.

As bizarre, un supervised, and dangerous what you describe may seem- I’m sure there are bright people in prison who have little to occupy their minds.
I don’t know what we as a society are expecting them to do all those hours of the day, over weeks, months, years, decades. Surfing the web is not a good idea.

Can someone shed a light on what a daily routine would look like, I haven’t a clue.
I imagine them sitting in a cell reading, maybe TV at certain times, dining hall, little time outside. Some take classes- I had a friend who taught math at a prison. Maybe counseling/ chaplain.
With time moving so slowly- at some point it would be like rats in an terrarium- they would go nuts and cause a lot of problems. If a mind is smart- it is going to seek problems and problem solving all the time. A mind just can’t do nothing.

No I’m not suggesting more entertainment. I’m suggesting have them do something constructive, use their lives as best as the can rather than do little.

IMO

 

[Lilibet]

I’m still a few pages back, but the discussion that I'm reading about how to think of and regard persons such as BK is interesting to me. Myself, I just don’t ever see people as monsters. I see humans who have done monstrous things. By the same token, I don’t see people as evil. I see them as humans who have done evil things. I honestly can’t say I hate anyone. I hate and loathe things that some humans do now and have done across time.

Mostly I come from the angle of wanting to know WHY atrocities are perpetrated, with an eye to the prevention of future atrocities. I see persons such as the killer in question as walking laboratories, with their physical brains as mazes that probably hold a lot of observable aberrations to be seen in life and upon autopsy. Not to mention the stuff that can’t be measured in a person but could still be studied via social and psychological sciences, if permitted.

I am repulsed by this killer, but by the same token, if he were starving or dying of thirst, I would help him out, provided I was not at personal risk. I’d give him a blanket or toss him a fan. I don’t wish this individual agony in prison. The mere fact of not being able to walk out the door of a place of confinement is a good start toward experiencing a stifling feeling I’ve never had to live for one second of my life. I picture this killer probably in protective custody for all of his remaining years unless he acts up and gets some solitary. If a special arrangement allowed him to play checkers with another PC prisoner on a Tuesday and they played nice, I would not be incensed. Society as the jailer should stay steadily humane, in my opinion.

I believe brain science is probably just barely developing in terms of helping us understand these few who can do what BK did. I would prefer we explore inner space until we have some better answers about aberration….and leave Mars for later, fascinating as the soil on that planet looks to even me. People such as BK may be examples of the perfect storm of nature and nurture gone off the rails, despite the fact that he apparently had parents who loved him. I expect BK exercised a lot of free agency during the commission of this crime, but what types of compulsions were going on? What was the maelstrom? Maybe upon autopsy, seeing the mess in that brain of his, someone might say, “We should have let him play checkers twice a week instead of once”.

I opine here with no intention whatsoever of making light of the horror that the victims suffered and their families are suffering. Four lives violently taken at the cusp of adulthood is unthinkable. We are all left to shudder til the end of our days over it. I just feel we as a society need to know more about what lies behind the actions of a perpetrator like this so that these types of crimes become history and don’t remain current events.

Thank you for expressing my feelings so well! I share your belief in humane treatment. And like you, I want to try to understand what lay behind his actions.

It seems to me that what he endured in his teens with his visual snow and emotions was torture and explains (not excuses) a lot. I can’t imagine going through what he experienced in his teens. I’m not sure if the visual snow resolved, but I doubt the “disconnection” he described from family and others did. The linked post below contains a few of his posts to a visual snow group describing how he felt. The last one is particularly intense. He was clearly extremely troubled.

GUILTY Post in thread 'PLEA DEAL ACCEPTED - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #113'

Jul 26, 2025

Watching the Peacock documentary, and they briefly showed a post BK made in a "visual snow" group. I found graphics of them, and find them pretty telling. Looks like from 2011 when he was 17? They've probably been posted here before, but might be interesting to revisit. There are 4. There's more details in the documentary at around the 36 min. mark (Angenette Levy narrates some of his posts). Also, possible relevance, when he started to lose weight he started boxing, so may be an aspect of the blunt force trauma on Kaylee.

• LAborn

• 

I think what he experienced could have led to intense anger, thinking “Why is everyone else normal and I’m not?” As someone who became physically disabled in my old age, I sometimes look at others my age who are able to walk easily and I feel a brief flash of anger at them…it’s not fair! Of course, I don’t allow myself to wallow in that emotion because I know it’s irrational and I don’t want to feel that way about people. But for someone with mental illness, it would be easy to become consumed by that anger and want to hurt those “normal” people having such a great life.

Trying to understand the mind of BK isn’t making excuses or minimizing what he did to Kaylee, Maddie, Xana and Ethan. Trying to understand why they were murdered honors their memories IMO.

 

[gremlin444]

Purchases history, MPD document

Most people have already heard about the July Walmart Beanie Hat purchase & 12-1-2022 hand towel packs purchases etc but adding this one cause it's new to me.

Do you remember the document number for the hand towel purchase?