OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #82

[pittsburghgirl]

Another I just remembered was the text to his dad when BCI was in the driveway. I just keep seeing these things and think, he's warning him. He knows. Again we can say they didn't like police, it doesn't mean he's guilty, but it sure isn't separating from them at all. He is assisting them. What else we just don't know is what was texted in the days/weeks/months after the crime because his phone was never taken and IIRC he had a new one just like everyone else in his family.

I can't help but think that I wish George would have taken a deal and talked. Then I have to wonder why he didn't and I don't for a second believe it's because he is innocent. It makes me wonder if he is just more cold hearted than even Jake is.

It's possible that Jake is minimizing G4's role in the murders--that in fact George was more involved than we know and the plan all along was to keep someone on the outside of prison if possible. Wasn't it George that had the idea fantasy of bulldozing the jail to get everyone out? (showing just how little he knew at that point about what would happen with multiple suspects, but I digress...)? I think they thought the whole murder would just be a local deal and they were WAGNERS and thus somewhat protected and they would get away with it like they got away with the arsons and probably other stuff we don't know about.

They didn't understand the impact of 8 murders of members on one family in one night at four different sites. They didn't realize that normal decent people would be horrified by a massacre and that local officials would recognize that this wasn't a cartel murder, that it was done by people who knew the territory and the victims. They were morally stupid and too arrogant to think they would be caught. And so G4 finds himself on trial, the last hope he has of avoiding prison and staying on the outside to carry on being a Wagner in the world--fighting for custody or plotting revenge against their enemies.

 

[Chelly]

Listening to the two Alaska pastors' testimony, it appears those two pastors were easily tricked and taken advantage of by the Wagner family. my opinion

 

[arielilane]

It is lunchtime. Return at 1:45 pm ET.

 

[arielilane]

Prosecutor AC cross examination of Caleb.


https://twitter.com/jamespilcher


Shot bows together - especially with George. Would play baseball with them.

Asked if he received any boxes from them shipped from Ohio to Alaska. Doesn't recall that or telling BCI or tip line that fact. He did sent deer head for them back to Ohio.

Asked if he received any boxes from them shipped from Ohio to Alaska. Doesn't recall that or telling BCI or tip line that fact. He did sent deer head for them back to Ohio.

Says George told him he liked Glocks and apparently he told BCI George said he owned every make and model of Glock. George also told him they sold all their guns and ammo before moving to Alaska.

He got along better with George as kids - but he dealt with Jake a lot more as adults. Says George was distant

Says the Wagners "would be allowed there" when asked if he told the congregation they were welcome to come to church.

Remember telling media "if they're guilty they need to be punished and if they're innocent they need to be left alone" about Wagners. But it only got reported "they're innocent ... leave them alone" so he stopped talking to media.

He went hunting with Jake and George once with guns

Jake asked Cinereski if he would ship 4 handguns back through licensed dealers. But Alaska State Police came with search warrant and they got the guns and took other items to be shipped back.

Recounts telling the guardian of Beth Ann Armer he wouldn't let his daughter marry Jake. "Didn't think Jake was really spiritual ... no realness to it ... I wouldn't want my daughter to marry somebody like that."

Said he would have notified authorities if any of Wagners had confessed - but he never did notify. He's never asked if anyone confessed due to hearsay rules.

Also says he only learned Jake says all four Wagners were involved in watching YouTube of the trial. Asked if he is equally disgusted of anyone involved "100 percent"

On lunch break until 1:45 ... that's to allow next defense witness. It's supposed to be Barbara Moore, the lawyer who represented George in his divorce from Tabitha Claytor.

 

[ColMustard]

Recess until 1:45pm.

Wow almost a two hour lunch.

Edit: Lunch, not lynch.

I think this was probably discussed when they had the brief sidebar before the break. Late witness maybe?

 

[justtrish]

It's possible that Jake is minimizing G4's role in the murders--that in fact George was more involved than we know and the plan all along was to keep someone on the outside of prison if possible. Wasn't it George that had the idea fantasy of bulldozing the jail to get everyone out? (showing just how little he knew at that point about what would happen with multiple suspects, but I digress...)? I think they thought the whole murder would just be a local deal and they were WAGNERS and thus somewhat protected and they would get away with it like they got away with the arsons and probably other stuff we don't know about.

They didn't understand the impact of 8 murders of members on one family in one night at four different sites. They didn't realize that normal decent people would be horrified by a massacre and that local officials would recognize that this wasn't a cartel murder, that it was done by people who knew the territory and the victims. They were morally stupid and too arrogant to think they would be caught. And so G4 finds himself on trial, the last hope he has of avoiding prison and staying on the outside to carry on being a Wagner in the world--fighting for custody or plotting revenge against their enemies.

BBM - as time goes on I believe this more and more. I think it's possible Jake and George discussed this. We know George saw that text with Jake's hand holding the gun. We know the victims are all connected more to Jake than anyone else (well also Billy). There seems to be lots of activity that George is kept apart from like wrecking his truck. How did Jake get the job to drive and wreck George's truck for insurance money? George went the legal way to court (well I think this is largely because Tabatha backed down didn't have the resources to fight and Hannah's family had the resources to help her fight) over custody.

We hear the defense trying to show George alone and different, but then we have his own voice seeming to be just as riled up, just as feisty, just as concerned and paranoid as the others. He says he will bring all hell down or something like that, he's screaming at Bulvine in that one recording. We have witnesses that were inside this house saying George was just as vocal with the plans if a and b are arrested we do this, and so on. It's like outside looking in they wanted to show one thing, but inside and behind closed doors, he was doing the same things.

 

[Skully67]

Well how did any of those witnesses help GW4.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

https://twitter.com/jamespilcher
Billy told him he was raising them {Tabitha and Hanna] to be wives for his sons.

This is a very revealing insight into how Billy (and likely Angela) though of Tabitha and Hanna.

 

[Pru2U]

Question for anyone: I vaguely remember a girlfriend George had in Alaska being mentioned a couple of times. Has it been said what happened to that relationship?

 

[justtrish]

Wow so after he knew Jake and Angela confessed he didn't see ANY media or even look for information on the others or the situation at all to know until the trial started that the state thought they were all involved? I find that hard to believe.

If I am a pastor at a church and I've grown up with these people, spent the night at their house, hunted with them, had items of theirs in my house that BCI came with a warrant to take, and then find out one of them confessed?? I just don't look it up, research it, talk to anyone still in the area, get a text, send a text, nothing at all to find out that George and Billy are also accused? Huh?

I know us true crime enthusiast are a little different, but to think I was friends with a family and was that close with them and I just don't check anything out about it until a trial starts?

 

[ColMustard]

Well how did any of those witnesses help GW4.

Pantomime defense. moo (but without music)

 

[arielilane]

https://twitter.com/CFranciscoWCPO


Now that we are on a break, I can tell you about the testimony of those who opted out. First, the defense called Andrew Carson. He has lived in Pike Co. his whole life. He knew the Rhodens who died. He knew Jake Wagner as well.

He got news that the Rhodens died, and he called Jake Wagner "to see if he heard anything that was going on" . He said Jake told him he was trying to get a hold of Hanna all morning. "I told him I heard they was dead." "He just starts screaming" and hung up.

When prosecutor had a chance to cross-examine him, he said he would described the Wagners as working as a team.

Next up was Shawn Fisher. He gave the Wagner men tattoos. Remember, prosecutors have accused the men of getting tattoos to commemorate the murders.

Fisher said he doesn't remember an instance where the men came in together to get tattoos together. He said Billy was in all the time and "he was a character." He said Jake was quiet and George was just a goofy country guy.

He said one day George came in asking for a tattoo to cover up a tattoo he didn't like anymore. It was a logo for a diesel company. He told jurors, "We rolled through some ideas." and the defense showed him a picture of George's tattoo.

He said George didn't come up with that idea. He said it was from his imagination as the tattoo artist. "He [George] had little say so." "That [8 ball] was just something that would cover up..." and Skull was a theme to go with it. "I don't remember him asking for a skull.”

As for the aces and eights, the dead man's hand, Fisher said that was always his go-to for filler. "It's based on a wild west folklore.”

He said Billy asked for a scorpion tattoo at one point, and he gave him that on his hand.

He said he gave Jake the arm tattoo. He said Jake brought a picture in of that.

 

[Chelly]

Wow so after he knew Jake and Angela confessed he didn't see ANY media or even look for information on the others or the situation at all to know until the trial started that the state thought they were all involved? I find that hard to believe.

If I am a pastor at a church and I've grown up with these people, spent the night at their house, hunted with them, had items of theirs in my house that BCI came with a warrant to take, and then find out one of them confessed?? I just don't look it up, research it, talk to anyone still in the area, get a text, send a text, nothing at all to find out that George and Billy are also accused? Huh?

I know us true crime enthusiast are a little different, but to think I was friends with a family and was that close with them and I just don't check anything out about it until a trial starts?

I was surprised the pastors were so easily fooled by the Wagners.

 

[justtrish]

Listening to the two Alaska pastors' testimony, it appears those two pastors were easily tricked and taken advantage of by the Wagner family. my opinion

Yes, up to a certain point I'd agree with this. Then there has to be a point when they knew and so the sons testimony did seem a little more like he was trying to remain neutral, but he knew something more. Not that he thought they were guilty, but he wouldn't allow his daughter to date Jake, he agreed to send the guns through a dealer only (which is the right thing to do). Why make that known to the court when it should be assumed that you don't mail guns in the mail? Was it because it was this family he had some gut feelings going on then? I think nobody wants to believe someone is capable of this type of thing, but even pastors (or maybe especially pastors) should have some discernment and ability to read people. The fact they needed to have the camera off that Wednesday night before he spoke to the congregation about the Wagner's and them only being accused, but they would allow them to attend. Man transparency is key.

 

[CIA Team Member]

Prosecutor AC cross examination of Caleb.


https://twitter.com/jamespilcher


Shot bows together - especially with George. Would play baseball with them.

Asked if he received any boxes from them shipped from Ohio to Alaska. Doesn't recall that or telling BCI or tip line that fact. He did sent deer head for them back to Ohio.

Asked if he received any boxes from them shipped from Ohio to Alaska. Doesn't recall that or telling BCI or tip line that fact. He did sent deer head for them back to Ohio.

Says George told him he liked Glocks and apparently he told BCI George said he owned every make and model of Glock. George also told him they sold all their guns and ammo before moving to Alaska.

He got along better with George as kids - but he dealt with Jake a lot more as adults. Says George was distant

Says the Wagners "would be allowed there" when asked if he told the congregation they were welcome to come to church.

Remember telling media "if they're guilty they need to be punished and if they're innocent they need to be left alone" about Wagners. But it only got reported "they're innocent ... leave them alone" so he stopped talking to media.

He went hunting with Jake and George once with guns

Jake asked Cinereski if he would ship 4 handguns back through licensed dealers. But Alaska State Police came with search warrant and they got the guns and took other items to be shipped back.

Recounts telling the guardian of Beth Ann Armer he wouldn't let his daughter marry Jake. "Didn't think Jake was really spiritual ... no realness to it ... I wouldn't want my daughter to marry somebody like that."

Said he would have notified authorities if any of Wagners had confessed - but he never did notify. He's never asked if anyone confessed due to hearsay rules.

Also says he only learned Jake says all four Wagners were involved in watching YouTube of the trial. Asked if he is equally disgusted of anyone involved "100 percent"

On lunch break until 1:45 ... that's to allow next defense witness. It's supposed to be Barbara Moore, the lawyer who represented George in his divorce from Tabitha Claytor.

Can someone please clarify what this means:

"Also says he only learned Jake says all four Wagners were involved in watching YouTube of the trial. Asked if he is equally disgusted of anyone involved "100 percent"

 

[rescuemom]

So what was the benefit of the pastor's testimony?

To fill up a chair. What can be said??

 

[dgfred]

He watched youtube and saw Jake say all Wagners were involved.

 

[Fat Old Man]

Well how did any of those witnesses help GW4.

Got GW4 out of his cell for a little while, and wasted more tax payers money. Just my opinion.

 

[joe jones]

seems GW tattoo was designed by the tattoo artist to cover up one he didn't like, so his tattoo holds no evidentiary value

 

[dgfred]

Still a horrible idea with anything '8' on it... plus a death's head. Jeez