OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #82

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  • #721
I have lived in rural areas my whole life. I have never seen bales of hay or straw tied down when loaded even stacked on hay wagons 12 feet high…
Also, the piece used may not have been warped like the example and if it was, maybe they turned it over so it was bowed up and weight would have straightened it…
My opinions only…
I was confused and thought it was a sheet of plywood. But then i went back and testimony was it was a sheet of OSB. I am thinking that is particle board. Decking for roofs of houses. Am i right? If so it was even weaker than the plywood right?

JMO
 
  • #722
I can’t believe they would have more than one layer of hay on top that board. What would be the need? It would look like a truck full at a distance, especially at night.
Also, Billy supposedly stopped on the way to ask if JW still wanted to go through with it. Why stop to ask that? Because he was in the bed of the truck, maybe? MOO
Testimony today clearly said 12 bales of hay. so I don't know.

jmo
 
  • #723
This murder truck is the craziest part of the planning.
CRsr and Billy knew each other for decades.
Wouldn’t CRsr be suspicious of Billy arriving, late night, in an unknown unrecognized truck piled high with hay?
I don’t think Billy ever before this date, arrived on UHR a or drove around Pike County with bales of hay stacked high, or any hay at all.
Fred owned horses and so did Billy on P RD. So it's possible Billy did.

JMO
 
  • #724
I agree. And at the end of the day it doesnt really matter. The hay makes hay for some looking to poke holes but it doesnt take away from the fact the 4Ws conspired to commit...
And it doesn't take away from the fact that none of us on here were there the night of the murders so we can only rely on what is testified to in court. Just like the jury.

JMO
 
  • #725
What does BIBM mean?
Bold Italic By Me. I can't see so well right now, if Italicize, it helps me see what I bolded in the post I responded to. I am wearing dollar general store eyeglasses. My scrip lens met with my dog.
 
  • #726
George saying "the family has spoken" is creepy, about voting to get rid of Jake's wife. Strongly shows George is glued to his family at the hip. Totally enmeshed with them. The air has long gone out of defense claim that George was different from his family. Won't wash with the jury.
King George. Head of the table meetings that day. Little tiny enmeshed familial cult is what they were. I truly hope that AW can get more time somehow. I know in some courts they can configure how they serve time and judges are permitted to add time, even after a plea. Something like this, I'd think would qualify.
 
  • #727
Well the judge all but kicked it to the garbage heap today when he instructed the jury not to base their opinion on either Boondock Saints movies, reminded them the people in them were actors, the plot the imagination of some screen writer and generally disregard the whole ball of crap in their verdict because it had no bearing on the case, crime or motive.

JMO.
I did see most of that.
 
  • #728
I wish, but that wss the first place I checked. I went through OS & all direct testimony. I suspect it came out in cross or re-direct but I fell asleep then gave up.
Aww don't worry about it @Pru2U . We all know that jake the snake slithers everywhere he goes. lol

JMO
 
  • #729
Dang... although I don't agree with you.

You, and only you... should have been on the defense team. At least you would give the jury a little to think over.

No way GW did not know what was going on. Before, during and after.
You, and only you... should have been on the defense team. At least you would give the jury a little to think over.

Yeah, I would be useful, but it's a long way from here to Ohio.

JMO
 
  • #730
I was confused and thought it was a sheet of plywood. But then i went back and testimony was it was a sheet of OSB. I am thinking that is particle board. Decking for roofs of houses. Am i right? If so it was even weaker than the plywood right?

JMO
OSB is more flexible than plywood I think.
 
  • #731
Watching this morning's live stream: Parker, while cross examining Scheiderer this morning, was standing shoulder to shoulder to this witness for several minutes. It appeared very intimidating. They were reading from the same sheets of paper. Parker seemed to be trying to rattle Scheiderer.
Parker seemed to be trying to rattle Scheiderer.

And Parker did an excellent job of it. Scheiderer was sweating bullets and was as nervous as a wh*** in church.
When canepa was crossing the cross she kept saying Scheiderer interviewed george who had a lawyer, Scheiderer kept correcting her while he wiped sweat off his face saying it wasn't an interview, it was an investigate technique. You cannot interview someone who has a lawyer without the lawyer being present. Canepa and Scheiderer came within a hairs breath of getting those R&L tapes thrown out of evidence.

LMAO

JMO
 
  • #732
Wonder if the plan could've been to let Billy die in the attack, collect insurance, pass go ... Just theory that popped in after reading your post.
That was my first though when i saw where that bullet hit in the door jam. Right beside where Billy's head would have been. Jake "I reckon I must have missed him by millimeters."

JMO
 
  • #733
this might be my biggeest issue with angelas plea bargain. she did not even feign remorse. if anything she reaffirmed her position that the murders were justified. i just can not wrap my head around how it went from "no ones getting a deal they all going to get dp" to letting this evil cow retain hope. for a release date. and have the gaul to tell the jury she made the deal in hopes of reconnecting with her family and the grandkids on the outside of prison. if i was a rhoden family member in the courtroom i may have attacked her when those words came out of her mouth. i just cant even. it goes against every concept of justice. i despise jake he deserved to die too. but his deal was a huge win for the families. angelas was a slap in the face
You want to know what a slap in the face it was? Angie gets time off for good behavior, teaching crafts, tutoring inmates that are illiterate, working in other areas. That 30 years could turn into 15 in a heartbeat. On top of that she is not charged with a violent crime. She did not use a firearm in connection with a crime. So if the prisons are overcrowded Angel mommy is out of there and free as a bird in a few years. And she doesn't even have to sleep with Billy to do it.

Now THAT is a slap in the face.

JMO
 
  • #734
They were proving two men the size of JW and GWIV could fit in that space. They weren’t proving you could haul a load of hay with it. MOO
True but.....12 bales of hay on a OSB sheet would naturally squash the OSB sheet down making far less space than there is without the hay Jake swore was on top of the OSB. Think about it. 480 lbs on top of a 4x8 sheet of OSB decking? You know that OSB buckled downward, creating very small, very limited space under it.

So why didn't BCI put hay on top of the OSB board while their agents was under it? Because they didn't want to risk crushing their biggest boys under 480 lbs of hay and causing them to have some broken ribs, and serious back, neck and hip injuries. Could have been a bit of a sticky problem explaining why you crushed two agents to the boss.

JMO
 
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  • #735
My Dad was LE and was a religious note taker on the job. He was often in the courts and testified many times. I'm sure he was allowed to review his notes before testifying, I believe that's why he took them during cases, that and to help with writing reports. This was 40 years ago so I don't know if things have changed since that era? JMO
Hubby takes copious notes. He buys note books by the case.

JMO
 
  • #736
I think there is NOTHING as credible as hearing the accused on tape speaking for themselves. We can hear others say this is how it was, they voted on things, they were intertwined, they acted as one, accounts were shared, etc. but when we hear it on recording, it isn't a matter of do we believe someone else, it's now we hear it for ourselves. so even if it's something we've heard before, have we hard it from one from one of the W's? The most damning things I've seen/heard were George's own actions and statements. His text to his dad, him screaming to his son, him chatting with his mom about the house going in his name and he didn't even see it. Those things showed me he his intent. He warned his dad because he knew it was not good BCI was there. He was upset and screaming about Vine because he was rattled and scared. He didn't bat an eye about his mommy getting a house in his name. He was moving to Alaksa with them and he didn't care that his mommy was using his credit to get them a home. This more than anything showed me that what others said about how they operated was in fact true because we saw behaviors from George himself that spoke loud and clear. So hearing that he knew about the bug detector will be huge. Hearing anything they discuss that shows they worked together or anything that can corroborate other testimony will just remove doubts from the minds of the jurors. THAT is why the defense is protesting to even ones that seem silly... each has a purpose to just remove a little doubt from the jury about something someone else has said or done.
So hearing that he knew about the bug detector will be huge.

Can someone explain what the bug detector had to do with the murders? Were they going to use it in the murders? I know people who own those and they are not killers. So....what does buying a bug detector have to do with murders. TIA

JMO
 
  • #737
Wednesday, November 9th:
*Finalize Recordings Hearing (@ 8am ET)/ *Trial continues (Day 40) (@ 9:30am ET) - OH - Pike County 8 people dead: Christopher Rhoden, Sr. (40), his ex-wife, Dana Manley Rhoden (37), their three children, Clarence "Frankie" Rhoden (20), Christopher Jr. (16), Hanna Mae (19); Frankie's fiancée, Hannah Hazel Gilley (20), Christopher Rhoden Sr.'s brother, Kenneth Rhoden (44), & a cousin, Gary Rhoden (37). Hanna Rhoden's baby girl (5 days old), another baby (6 mos.) & a young child (3) were unharmed. (April 21-22, 2016, Pebbles) – for *George Washington Wagner IV (27/now 31) (Jakes’ bro) indicted (11/12/18), arrested (11/13/18), charged (11/15/18) & arraigned (11/28/18) with 8 counts aggravated murder, (plus gun specifications on each), 1 count of 1st degree conspiracy, 4 counts of 1st degree aggravated burglary, 1 count of 5th degree unlawful possession of dangerous ordnance, 3 counts of 3rd degree evidence tampering, 1 count of 5th degree forgery, 1 count of 5th degree unauthorized use of computer or telecommunications, 1 count of 4th degree interception of wire, oral or electronic communication, 1 count of 5th degree obstructing justice, & 1 count of 1st degree engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity. Plead not guilty. Held without bond. DA will seek the DP. Per Jake’s plea agreement, DP is off the table only for Jake if his testimony is truthful. But George still faces the DP as he did not take a deal.
Trial began on 8/29/22 with final jury selection & the jury was seated on 8/30/22. 12 Jurors & 6 alternates. Jury: (9 women & 3 men) & 6 alternates: (5 women & 1 man). 9/30/22: Ill juror replaced with alternate. 12 jurors & 5 alternates. Jury: (9 women & 3 men) & 5 alternates (4 women & 1 man). A few are in their late 20s or 30s, but most are in their 40s or 50s.
Trial began with opening statements on Monday, 9/12/22. (Trial is scheduled for 8 to 9 weeks (56-63 days).
Added note: Regarding shoe sizes: Jake wore the size 10.5 & George the 11.

Crime info & court hearings from 11/28/18 thru 9/6/22 & Trial Day 1-38 (9/12 to 11/7/22) no court on 10/27 & 11/4/22 reference post #484 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-82.642959/page-25

11/8/22 Tuesday, Trial Day 39: State witness: BCI Ryan Scheiderer, lead investigator back on stand on cross-exam, re-direct & re-cross.
For more info see post #504 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-82.642959/page-26
For more info see post #529 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-82.642959/page-27
Judge tells jury they can consider the Boondock Saints evidence presented yesterday if they believe it affects this case. Court has business to discuss outside jury presence re wiretap evidence. Jury was sent home.
For more info see posts #527 & 533 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-82.642959/page-27
For more info see posts #563 & 579 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-82.642959/page-32
For more info see posts #645 & 646 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-82.642959/page-33
For more info see posts #645 & 646 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-82.642959/page-33
For more info see post #679 (article) here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-82.642959/page-34
Hearing for lawyers at 8am to finalize the 8 recordings that were not ruled on & jury at 9:30am. Trial continues on Wednesday, 11/9/22.
No court on Friday, 11/11/22 for Veteran’s Day.
 
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  • #738
Wow, I hadn't heard that, not good. Poor jurors. They are lucky they have alot of alternate jurors left, at this rate they may need them. I think they used one already.



Geez - I can not get out of the quote... so in the red bold - yes, one man was let go on 9/30/22 because he was ill - there are 5 alternates left. 4 women & 1 man.
 
  • #739
You should do the defense teams closing. I'm telling ya, I went in with an open mind and there's no hard, solid evidence. It's a DP case, I've taken it seriously and hoped there was one redeeming human in the bunch of them. I believe in coincidence, odd timing, and such, but at some point, is all of the these things in this man's life, during a certain time period, ALL based on odd coincidences? If so G4 is one unlucky man.
I have some help. Hubby is watching this trial. He said way back in week 2 if it had been him he would never have suggested to the DA to arrest George. they had no evidence. Now today we hear from Agent Ryan S that they had no evidence or even probable cause to arrest george. That is why the wiretaps. Ryan S said the wiretaps were a last ditch effort to get probable cause to arrest george. Even with those they had to take it to a grand jury to arrest him. As the old saying goes a grand jury will indict a ham sandwich. But a conviction is a whole different story. They sat in jail for 3 years. Did not move forward one inch toward a trial. Suddenly Jake gets a wild hair in his butt to confess. The first proffer (the one the defense got) Jake said George was not in on the planning (easy to believe since he was out on the road with billy for a week then with Jake for a week, hunting, philandering, scrapping with Chris N, fishing with friends.) Jake said George was not with them at the murder scenes. Jake said george did not help with the cover up. All in Parkers opening, because that first proffer was all that Parker had.

Then suddenly the guards at TWO jails managed to make a huge screw up and let Jake and Angie talk. Remember that in pre trial hearings??? Now that didn't happen easily. In fact i would say the odds of that is very low. First Angie had to call CN and have him tell Jake a day and time to call CN. To the minute. Or vice versa. then Angie had to call CN at that very same time. By some miracle there were no other prisoners waiting in line to use the phone at jake or Angies jail at that very moment. BTW no guards listening in on either one of their star witnesses. Angie and Jake call CN who merges for a conference call so Jake and mommy can talk to each other for who knows how long? And no guards, BCI, Canepa even bothers to listen to the phone calls you know the jail taped. Ask you self why? How did this very well choreographed conference call slip by so many jailers investigators ect. Want an answer? Because Canepa set that conference call up. Why? Because they had nothing on George. She set it up so jake could tell mommy if you want a 30 year deal, no DP for any of us, we have to give them george. Canepa may even have been on that conference call with them. But the end result was a half azzed attempt by Jake and Angie to put george in it all. Angie couldn't do it until the last few minutes of her testimony when she said "oh BTW, george said he wanted to confess right after the murders and take the fall for all of us, oh and that shoeprint, he said that was his." That after hours of testimony from jake where they never discussed the murders at all. Jake made a half azzed effort to put george in it by saying george had the SKS but for some reason forgot to fire it at Chris sr. So hero jake had to take it from george and shoot. Then Billy goes bat shyte crazy and once again hero Jake has to step in and calm Billy down. Guess george was still in rigor mortis and couldn't move a muscle. Then all of a sudden Jake says he had george dig a hole. But then he testifies he cut up the weapons, he and billy mixed the concrete, and poured it in the buckets. hero jake coming to the rescue again. Then Billy asks george and jake to build a goosebox for gramps birthday. So george helps build a goosebox. No evidence he knew what it would be used for except a gift for gramps on his birthday.

Suddenly Canepa gets a new proffer from jake putting george in the mix of it all and as a bonus a proffer from Angie.

Then we hear from Ryan S today they had nothing on george, not even probable cause to arrest him.

Doesn't any of this sound suspicious to anyone except me and hubby who has been a federal investigator for almost 40 years and worked some horrendous crimes like the Murrah Building?

Then there is the lawsuit George would win against the state of Ohio for keeping him locked up for 3 years without probable cause. The last guy a state did that to got 14 million dollars from the state. Ohio can barely pay for this trial.

Just a few late night thought for you. the biggest being out of hundreds of hours of recordings why doesn't the jury and us get to listen to those phone calls between Jake and Angie that we all know the jail recorded??????

JMO
 
  • #740
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