OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#43

[Dudly]

If the Wagner 4 are found guilty (or not guilty as happened with OJ Simpson) the families will likely try to get a Judgement against them in Civil Court. (My 2 cents)
The Wagner 4 are not paying for their defense so whatever money or assets they all had at the time of arrests, should still be there.

The exception would be if Jake and GW4's assets are going towards child support and of course jail related expenditures such as commissary, phone calls, medical related charges, maybe some court costs, trial clothes, etc...

It's too late for them to hide/transfer their money/assets now. They could try from jail but seriously, what family member would want to help them hide assets to keep the victims from any gain? It's one thing for a relative to manage their affairs, someone has to, but to deliberately hide things from the victims is not something I see a relative doing for them.

I have wondered if it is possible the attorneys had them sign control of assets over to FW. She can do a lot from outside...

 

[Cool Cats]

I have wondered if it is possible the attorneys had them sign control of assets over to FW. She can do a lot from outside...

Your right, their attorneys would draw up papers so someone could go in and manage all their affairs. Probably Robin and Angela's brother, who already does errands for his mom Rita, but not Fred.

The Wag 4 can't have any contact with Fred and vice versa and she's also on house arrest so she can't do the errands that people do when managing someone's estate which includes getting the mail, feeding pets, dealing with all the personal property in the house and garage including vehicles, paying bills, making sure the pipes don't freeze in winter and the lawn is kept up in summer, getting things turned off and closing things up, putting items in storage, hiring movers, getting rid of food in the refrigerator, and on and on it goes......

No one was left behind, that lived with them, to take care of all this. I just don't see Fred being involved. I'm sure Robin is doing many of the errands and that is probably one reason GW3 asked the court if she can visit him.

I can picture Robin getting clothes together they can wear in court and making sure to put money into 4 commissary/phone accounts in 4 separate jails! It's quite the responsibility looking after 4 long-term jailed close family members.

Fred could be angry with all of them for all we know. Angry they all got caught but especially angry she lost control and is unable to call all the shots anymore.
.....My 2 Cents.....

 

[OhioBlues]

Your right, their attorneys would draw up papers so someone could go in and manage all their affairs. Probably Robin and Angela's brother, who already does errands for his mom Rita, but not Fred.

The Wag 4 can't have any contact with Fred and vice versa and she's also on house arrest so she can't do the errands that people do when managing someone's estate which includes getting the mail, feeding pets, dealing with all the personal property in the house and garage including vehicles, paying bills, making sure the pipes don't freeze in winter and the lawn is kept up in summer, getting things turned off and closing things up, putting items in storage, hiring movers, getting rid of food in the refrigerator, and on and on it goes......

No one was left behind, that lived with them, to take care of all this. I just don't see Fred being involved. I'm sure Robin is doing many of the errands and that is probably one reason GW3 asked the court if she can visit him.

I can picture Robin getting clothes together they can wear in court and making sure to put money into 4 commissary/phone accounts in 4 separate jails! It's quite the responsibility looking after 4 long-term jailed close family members.

Fred could be angry with all of them for all we know. Angry they all got caught but especially angry she lost control and is unable to call all the shots anymore.
.....My 2 Cents.....

There could be people donating to their jail funds too. People are donating to Scott Pedersen, Chris Watts and the Colorado theater killer plus they did with Casey Anthony.

 

[Loomis124]

Your right, their attorneys would draw up papers so someone could go in and manage all their affairs. Probably Robin and Angela's brother, who already does errands for his mom Rita, but not Fred.

The Wag 4 can't have any contact with Fred and vice versa and she's also on house arrest so she can't do the errands that people do when managing someone's estate which includes getting the mail, feeding pets, dealing with all the personal property in the house and garage including vehicles, paying bills, making sure the pipes don't freeze in winter and the lawn is kept up in summer, getting things turned off and closing things up, putting items in storage, hiring movers, getting rid of food in the refrigerator, and on and on it goes......

No one was left behind, that lived with them, to take care of all this. I just don't see Fred being involved. I'm sure Robin is doing many of the errands and that is probably one reason GW3 asked the court if she can visit him.

I can picture Robin getting clothes together they can wear in court and making sure to put money into 4 commissary/phone accounts in 4 separate jails! It's quite the responsibility looking after 4 long-term jailed close family members.

Fred could be angry with all of them for all we know. Angry they all got caught but especially angry she lost control and is unable to call all the shots anymore.
.....My 2 Cents.....

Cool Cats, all this is just my opinion, of course.

I believe FW's "control" (the power to influence or direct people's behavior or the course of events) has been and still is, extremely underrated. For the first time in her life, she is being "bucked." I can't imagine the fits she is throwing at home, nor the earbeatings everyone in her presence is enduring. You can bet Owen is on speed dial and is not only taking care of her affairs, but those of whoever she barks the name of, at any given moment.

There is nothing, and I do mean, nothing, that a Narcissist will not do to maintain control. Yes, I believe she is indeed the Mastermind and has instilled these traits in the GW family. And I believe these offspring further developed even more bizarre personalities from God knows where...movies, cults, hatred, who knows?

I don't feel sorry for RW. She's a puppet on her Mother's string. And I can't believe that she has lived in an innocent halo all this time.

And the really, really, Real losses are on a little girl's and a little boy's shoulders. And I definitely don't mean the loss of the Ws. The day they were arrested was the day those poor kids' lives began. One day those kids will know.

If I were any one of the 4 in jail, or possibly one of the grandmothers, I would not be able to think of anything else in the world but those children. I think I would be praying to die as soon as possible.

Moderators, please feel free to delete if my post is just too "raw."

 

[Cool Cats]

Cool Cats, all this is just my opinion, of course.

I believe FW's "control" (the power to influence or direct people's behavior or the course of events) has been and still is, extremely underrated. For the first time in her life, she is being "bucked." I can't imagine the fits she is throwing at home, nor the earbeatings everyone in her presence is enduring. You can bet Owen is on speed dial and is not only taking care of her affairs, but those of whoever she barks the name of, at any given moment.

There is nothing, and I do mean, nothing, that a Narcissist will not do to maintain control. Yes, I believe she is indeed the Mastermind and has instilled these traits in the GW family. And I believe these offspring further developed even more bizarre personalities from God knows where...movies, cults, hatred, who knows?

I don't feel sorry for RW. She's a puppet on her Mother's string. And I can't believe that she has lived in an innocent halo all this time.

And the really, really, Real losses are on a little girl's and a little boy's shoulders. And I definitely don't mean the loss of the Ws. The day they were arrested was the day those poor kids' lives began. One day those kids will know.

If I were any one of the 4 in jail, or possibly one of the grandmothers, I would not be able to think of anything else in the world but those children. I think I would be praying to die as soon as possible.

Moderators, please feel free to delete if my post is just too "raw."

....Loomis 124 said...

"I believe FW's "control" (the power to influence or direct people's behavior or the course of events) has been and still is, extremely underrated. For the first time in her life, she is being "bucked." I can't imagine the fits she is throwing at home, nor the earbeatings everyone in her presence is enduring. You can bet Owen is on speed dial and is not only taking care of her affairs, but those of whoever she barks the name of, at any given moment. "
__________________________________
Such a good description! I really like this. And yes Robin likely knows far more than her mother and brother give her credit for. Imagine what she overhears!

And the kids....wow....I recently found out from an earlier post that RN's indictment mentions fraud involving GW4's son! We never hear about this, we only hear about SW's custody.

I can't get the indictment to enlarge so I can't read the exact wording.

 

[Jonas_Klein]

D

 

[Loomis124]

....Loomis 124 said...

"I believe FW's "control" (the power to influence or direct people's behavior or the course of events) has been and still is, extremely underrated. For the first time in her life, she is being "bucked." I can't imagine the fits she is throwing at home, nor the earbeatings everyone in her presence is enduring. You can bet Owen is on speed dial and is not only taking care of her affairs, but those of whoever she barks the name of, at any given moment. "
__________________________________
Such a good description! I really like this. And yes Robin likely knows far more than her mother and brother give her credit for. Imagine what she overhears!

And the kids....wow....I recently found out from an earlier post that RN's indictment mentions fraud involving GW4's son! We never hear about this, we only hear about SW's custody.

I can't get the indictment to enlarge so I can't read the exact wording.

Yes, the forgery charges most certainly include GW4's son. I've been trying hard to figure out the custody part of this, but not there yet. It seems to me from the illegal stalking of HMR, it started in 2014, and I do believe GW4's ex was most likely a victim in some way also because it is strange that GW wound up with the child. Then AW even railroaded TW when she brought her new baby over to see her brother! No wonder HR would not sign over any rights to JW! Just my opinion.

 

[rsd1200]

Yes, the forgery charges most certainly include GW4's son. I've been trying hard to figure out the custody part of this, but not there yet. It seems to me from the illegal stalking of HMR, it started in 2014, and I do believe GW4's ex was most likely a victim in some way also because it is strange that GW wound up with the child. Then AW even railroaded TW when she brought her new baby over to see her brother! No wonder HR would not sign over any rights to JW! Just my opinion.

BBM
That was on or about March 11, 2017. I've often wondered about that visit. With TB preoccupied she'd not have time to devote to G4 running off to AK. If GW4 had the appropriate documents... (falsified perhaps?), then he'd have had no trouble going over the border, and through the checkpoints.

 

[Jonas_Klein]

BBM
That was on or about March 11, 2017. I've often wondered about that visit. With TB preoccupied she'd not have time to devote to G4 running off to AK. If GW4 had the appropriate documents... (falsified perhaps?), then he'd have had no trouble going over the border, and through the checkpoints.

Traveling across the border with children.

https://www.ezbordercrossing.com/the-inspection-experience/travelling-with-children/

The father traveling alone with the child and without the mother would need to demonstrate that he his the father, has custody and/or has consent from the mother.

ETA:
From a better source with more precise situations:

Minor children travelling to Canada - Canada.ca

If the parents are separated or divorced and one of them has sole custody of the child:
- the letter of authorization may be signed by that parent only and they should bring a copy of the custody decree.

 

[Betty P]

I just had to research my comment/question about 845 Bethel being listed in JW's indictment as the place of SW's conception. In thread #42 Betty P's comment # 463 she refers to Bethel Hill Rd being listed in JW's count 23. It was in the Bill of particulars as the place of the offense. I just re-read the Bop and it is there. Is 845 Bethel and Bethel Hill Rd the same property? Just learning how to reply to posts in this thread thanks to Dudly and have no idea how to bring a comment from another thread here.

Thanks, I noticed the same thing. To each his own, but for now I'm considering them "possibly" the same. IIRC that stretch of the road, going from Camp Creek to just south of Bethel, isn't very long.

Google Maps

These confusing details are a little frustrating. This information should be released to the public by now, as it is in most cases. There's really no point in keeping it secret.

 

[buttonbaby]

Yes, the forgery charges most certainly include GW4's son. I've been trying hard to figure out the custody part of this, but not there yet. It seems to me from the illegal stalking of HMR, it started in 2014, and I do believe GW4's ex was most likely a victim in some way also because it is strange that GW wound up with the child. Then AW even railroaded TW when she brought her new baby over to see her brother! No wonder HR would not sign over any rights to JW! Just my opinion.

ITA Loomis... the Ws seemed to think they were completely entitled to control everyone and everything, especially the children BW (son of GW4 and TB) and SW (daughter of JW and HMR). I've never heard anything much about TB, other than the fact that somehow the Ws ended up with full custody of BW, and at some point GW4 made mention of wanting her to undergo some type of psychiatric evaluation... speaking only for myself, I am so curious as to what all they did to manipulate this woman into giving up custody of her son. Wow... it had to be something huge... their marriage was VERY short lived (only 1.5- 2 years IIRC), and then GW4 ends up with sole custody.

My apologies for veering slightly off topic, however there is something I am SO curious about. Although we almost always use initials here at WS for many reasons (especially when referring to children), I remember seeing at one time on TB's FB page, apparently while she was pregnant, that she was calling her son "H", couldn't wait to meet him, etc. Obviously he didn't end up being named "H", but rather "B"... I've only seen the "B"name in print one time, and was absolutely astounded. WTH??? If anyone else here has seen the name before too, all I can say is WHAT??? Are the Ws (rhetorical question here), so controlling and manipulative that they even strong armed her into naming her son something other than what she had originally chosen? Unbelievable.

 

[OhioBlues]

ITA Loomis... the Ws seemed to think they were completely entitled to control everyone and everything, especially the children BW (son of GW4 and TB) and SW (daughter of JW and HMR). I've never heard anything much about TB, other than the fact that somehow the Ws ended up with full custody of BW, and at some point GW4 made mention of wanting her to undergo some type of psychiatric evaluation... speaking only for myself, I am so curious as to what all they did to manipulate this woman into giving up custody of her son. Wow... it had to be something huge... their marriage was VERY short lived (only 1.5- 2 years IIRC), and then GW4 ends up with sole custody.

My apologies for veering slightly off topic, however there is something I am SO curious about. Although we almost always use initials here at WS for many reasons (especially when referring to children), I remember seeing at one time on TB's FB page, apparently while she was pregnant, that she was calling her son "H", couldn't wait to meet him, etc. Obviously he didn't end up being named "H", but rather "B"... I've only seen the "B"name in print one time, and was absolutely astounded. WTH??? If anyone else here has seen the name before too, all I can say is WHAT??? Are the Ws (rhetorical question here), so controlling and manipulative that they even strong armed her into naming her son something other than what she had originally chosen? Unbelievable.

I know what you are talking about with the name. My guess is that the W's managed to pull that off thru control, intimidation and fear. MOO. I want to know how they thought of that name. Jmo

 

[IType]

Cool Cats, all this is just my opinion, of course.

I believe FW's "control" (the power to influence or direct people's behavior or the course of events) has been and still is, extremely underrated. For the first time in her life, she is being "bucked." I can't imagine the fits she is throwing at home, nor the earbeatings everyone in her presence is enduring. You can bet Owen is on speed dial and is not only taking care of her affairs, but those of whoever she barks the name of, at any given moment.

There is nothing, and I do mean, nothing, that a Narcissist will not do to maintain control. Yes, I believe she is indeed the Mastermind and has instilled these traits in the GW family. And I believe these offspring further developed even more bizarre personalities from God knows where...movies, cults, hatred, who knows?

I don't feel sorry for RW. She's a puppet on her Mother's string. And I can't believe that she has lived in an innocent halo all this time.

And the really, really, Real losses are on a little girl's and a little boy's shoulders. And I definitely don't mean the loss of the Ws. The day they were arrested was the day those poor kids' lives began. One day those kids will know.

If I were any one of the 4 in jail, or possibly one of the grandmothers, I would not be able to think of anything else in the world but those children. I think I would be praying to die as soon as possible.

Moderators, please feel free to delete if my post is just too "raw."

I also wonder as to the "mastermind". But my biggest question is.....if FW is the mastermind, why isn't she charged with some form of conspiracy? She and RN are listed as members of "the enterprise" in count 22 of the W4 indictments, but in the indictments of both FW and RN, only RN is actually charged with conspiracy by participating in "the enterprise" (forging documents). FW is only charged with obstruction of justice and lying to the grand jury. If she were the driving force behind the murders, wouldn't she be charged with conspiracy equally to the W4? Just curious.

ETA: Just clarifying my point--FW is listed as part of "the enterprise" but is not charged with a crime for being part of "the enterprise" of carrying out the murders. JMO. Hope that makes sense.

 

[Jonas_Klein]

I know what you are talking about with the name. My guess is that the W's managed to pull that off thru control, intimidation and fear. MOO. I want to know how they thought of that name. Jmo

I would not choose it. But is it any worse than being called Barry Earl? Anyways, very often people choose nicknames such as Jake for Edward and Billy for George. He will choose a nickname he likes and the problem will be solved.

Mine is Jonas. It sounds funny down south, especially the latter part. But it's very common in my elders' country.

As for the reasons the father is allegedly sole custodian, I don't know the facts. But the world is full of situations where one of the parent is not willing or cannot have custody. Everyone has their own issues to deal with.

The sole fact the father has custody of a child with a unusual name is not a proof of anything. Although it could be part of a pattern....

 

[Myland]

I know what you are talking about with the name. My guess is that the W's managed to pull that off thru control, intimidation and fear. MOO. I want to know how they thought of that name. Jmo

Or when he was born the name “H” in their opinion didn’t fit him. I called my son “M” my entire pregnancy and then when he was born the name didn’t fit him so he was given another name. Jmo I personally can not judge a person on a last minute name change. Jmo

 

[OhioBlues]

I would not choose it. But is it any worse than being called Barry Earl? Anyways, very often people choose nicknames such as Jake for Edward and Billy for George. He will choose a nickname he likes and the problem will be solved.

Mine is Jonas. It sounds funny down south, especially the latter part. But it's very common in my elders' country.

As for the reasons the father is allegedly sole custodian, I don't know the facts. But the world is full of situations where one of the parent is not willing or cannot have custody. Everyone has their own issues to deal with.

The sole fact the father has custody of a child with a unusual name is not a proof of anything. Although it could be part of a pattern....

I don't know why your name would be unusual in the South. I am from the South and neither the first or second word of your screen name would be unusual to me, my friends or relatives. What is so different in/about the South?

I do know people named Barry in the South, North, East and West. I do not know anyone with the other name in the country but I thought it might be just me. However, a Google Search shows that it is rarely if ever used.

I know it's in the Urban Dictionary from a Video Game tho. I won't c/p that tho.

jmo. moo.

 

[OhioBlues]

Or when he was born the name “H” in their opinion didn’t fit him. I called my son “M” my entire pregnancy and then when he was born the name didn’t fit him so he was given another name. Jmo I personally can not judge a person on a last minute name change. Jmo

So I guess that the W's looked at a newborn in the nursery and thought he looked like his given name? Ok.

jmo

 

[Myland]

So I guess that the W's looked at a newborn in the nursery and thought he looked like his given name? Ok.

jmo

Could have, there are many many names out there i think is odd, but obviously someone liked them jmo

 

[Cool Cats]

I also wonder as to the "mastermind". But my biggest question is.....if FW is the mastermind, why isn't she charged with some form of conspiracy? She and RN are listed as members of "the enterprise" in count 22 of the W4 indictments, but in the indictments of both FW and RN, only RN is actually charged with conspiracy by participating in "the enterprise" (forging documents). FW is only charged with obstruction of justice and lying to the grand jury. If she were the driving force behind the murders, wouldn't she be charged with conspiracy equally to the W4? Just curious.

ETA: Just clarifying my point--FW is listed as part of "the enterprise" but is not charged with a crime for being part of "the enterprise" of carrying out the murders. JMO. Hope that makes sense.

Conspiracy for RN and not FW is because RN did something illegal before the murders, but they can only get FW doing something illegal after the murders.

They always overcharge people also. All they got FW on is lying about the BP vests, that's it. They have made 2 charges out of it. If her lawyer can convince the jury that she misunderstood the question, or really did answer it as best she could, then she will be acquitted of lying under oath and both charges will be dropped.

I know it's not what people want to hear but I think she has a good chance of beating her charges.

I think Rita should take a plea. Guilty to forgery but drop other charges for probation.....My 2 Cents.....

 

[rsd1200]

Or when he was born the name “H” in their opinion didn’t fit him. I called my son “M” my entire pregnancy and then when he was born the name didn’t fit him so he was given another name. Jmo I personally can not judge a person on a last minute name change. Jmo

Hanging a name on a child, that is not only extremely uncommon (at best), but carries negative connotations in today's world, can turn out to be difficult for a child. I think of the Johnny Cash song, about the boy named Sue, he'll probably be a tough lil guy...