UNSOLVED Oh - Pike County: 8 People From One Family Dead As Police Hunt For Killer(s) #33

[MizStery]

I have attempted to weave in my theory the employment history that the two Wagner brothers worked as over the road truck drivers!

If any one on the thread can connect any dots on the truck driving angle. Wow that would be awesome,

Brown said the brothers, both diesel mechanics and one-time over-the-road truck drivers, often worked on his vehicles

think these murders were done by one tight close knit family and that no one outside that family unit knows anything or has any evidence

The guns and ammunition used in the Rhoden assassination could be hardware that was only circulated and handled (modified?)by select members of the family or the 'brotherhood'. (I use that term for lack of a better 'word')

The ATF Violent Weapons Division(My Theory Only) are desperately attempting to find the backdoor then follow the electronic /hardware trail of the 'who/where' the stash is/was kept.

I believe as RAISINISBACK wrote that the family or 'brotherhood' are the only parties to be keepers of the whereabouts of the weapons stash.

The Rhoden Family are victims and have suffered so much I am desperately hoping everyday for an indictment of the perpetrators.

My Theory # 9008 & I reserve the right to change it.

My Opinion Only

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I’m here. Pain got the best of me and I’m laying low. Not much sleep and energy. As much as I hate the current opiod mess there are patients who have the right to the best quality of life possible. I am here to tell you it’s not happening. Everyone of us knows someone in pain. We’d just like a good relationship with our pain treating doctors. As if January I am now being treated by the DEA. not a good thing. Let our doctors prescribe our medications. Everyone deserves to live with the best tratmentvheslth care has to offer

Amen, Charliegizmo49!

 

[Dudly]

I think these murders were done by one tight close knit family and that no one outside that family unit knows anything or has any evidence. And that family will never turn on each other.

I think this crime has already been solved, LE knows exactly who did it, but they just don't have enough evidence for an arrest or conviction. I was hoping that JM might be able to provide something, but apparently he either didn't know enough to help LE or he didn't tell what he did know.

I think the only way anyone will ever be arrested for this crime is if they kill again and make enough mistakes in that murder to get caught. That is always possible since once you resort to murder to solve a problem, then that becomes the best way to solve all your problems.

But keeping in mind JW is engaged to another girl, he might be in love enough with her to tell her something about the R's if she asks. But will she be brave enough to tell LE what he says? I pray that they don't come to view this new fiance as a problem that needs to be solved. Then again maybe she will be smart enough not to have any kids with him. Who knows?

JMO

I'm curious how LE would have enough evidence to know who did this but not enough to arrest or prosecute...

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I'm curious how LE would have enough evidence to know who did this but not enough to arrest or prosecute...

Because they have enough evidence to know who did it, but that evidence is mostly circumstantial and some might not be admissible in court. In first degree murder the prosecution must have all their ducks in a row because a jury will not convict unless there is overwhelming proof. Just about any homicide investigator can tell you who the killer is long before they get enough evidence to make an arrest and take it before a jury.

JMO

 

[Dudly]

Because they have enough evidence to know who did it, but that evidence is mostly circumstantial and some might not be admissible in court. In first degree murder the prosecution must have all their ducks in a row because a jury will not convict unless there is overwhelming proof. Just about any homicide investigator can tell you who the killer is long before they get enough evidence to make an arrest and take it before a jury.

JMO

Who makes the decision whether there is enough evidence? Junk or DeWine? If there isn't enough evidence by now, then there will likely never be enough. They should have discovered everything that could be discovered in the first six months, what is going to change after 2 1/2 years? When DeWine is asked, he always says they will eventually be caught or something to that effect.
You can claim LE saying they have laser focus on the W's because they are guilty. But, they could be trying to definitively eliminate them as suspects. They started the accusations with the M's but eventually gave that up, apparently...
You can look for something in your house all day long but if it isn't in your house, you're not going to find it....

 

[rsd1200]

Because they have enough evidence to know who did it, but that evidence is mostly circumstantial and some might not be admissible in court. In first degree murder the prosecution must have all their ducks in a row because a jury will not convict unless there is overwhelming proof. Just about any homicide investigator can tell you who the killer is long before they get enough evidence to make an arrest and take it before a jury.

JMO

Agree. You can indicte a ham sandwich but the prosecution has only one chance to convict, afterwards. If it's a person(s) of influence, and they are wealthy enough to hire hot shot attys., that makes the prosecutor's job even more difficult. My friend was nearly killed, unarmed, while standing in the street, by a local, w/pull, who had a grudge. The person shot my friend in front of God, and earthly witnesses, and WALKED. Didn't spend 24 hours in lock up. Had the roles been reversed? My friend would have been locked away under the jail, for years. So I can see the secrecy, and dotting Is and crossing Ts. If the perps are folks of wealth, then their lawyers are likely from the area, or at least have their feelers out for any little tidbit they can get. They aren't privy to anything until their client is charged. After they are formally charged, at least in Ky., the defense is privy to what they have on their client, and I doubt the prosecution wants that, til the last minute. Just some ramblings this evening. May not apply to Ohio, or even this case..

 

[Betty P]

Because they have enough evidence to know who did it, but that evidence is mostly circumstantial and some might not be admissible in court. In first degree murder the prosecution must have all their ducks in a row because a jury will not convict unless there is overwhelming proof. Just about any homicide investigator can tell you who the killer is long before they get enough evidence to make an arrest and take it before a jury.

JMO

I'm not so sure they couldn't get a conviction. It seems very likely they have the DNA of at least one of the killers, considering they've made a number of people submit to DNA testing.

 

[rsd1200]

I'm not so sure they couldn't get a conviction. It seems very likely they have the DNA of at least one of the killers, considering they've made a number of people submit to DNA testing.

O.J. Simpson was acquitted of murder and there was DNA evidence that he was at the scene of the crime. DNA is not a slam dunk.

 

[IceIce9]

Because they have enough evidence to know who did it, but that evidence is mostly circumstantial and some might not be admissible in court. In first degree murder the prosecution must have all their ducks in a row because a jury will not convict unless there is overwhelming proof. Just about any homicide investigator can tell you who the killer is long before they get enough evidence to make an arrest and take it before a jury.

JMO

If they do not have the evidence they need by now I think it is likely they will have to wait until someone comes forward. That could be some months or years down the road.

A high profile case where I live was solved when the former girlfriend of the son of one of the individuals involved came forward. At some point the son and his girlfriend broke up, and she informed investigators about items she had seen in her boyfriend’s hiuse that his father had asked him to hold on to for him.

Investigators knew who was guilty of this crime but couldn’t prove it until the son’s girlfriend came forward. The son was not involved, his dad had just asked him to store some things for him. If they hadn’t broken up, or if the girlfriend hadn’t had the courage to come forward the case might not have gone to trial or resulted in a conviction.

 

[rsd1200]

If they do not have the evidence they need by now I think it is likely they will have to wait until someone comes forward. That could be some months or years down the road.

A high profile case where I live was solved when the former girlfriend of the son of one of the individuals involved came forward. At some point the son and his girlfriend broke up, and she informed investigators about items she had seen in her boyfriend’s hiuse that his father had asked him to hold on to for him.

Investigators knew who was guilty of this crime but couldn’t prove it until the son’s girlfriend came forward. The son was not involved, his dad had just asked him to store some things for him. If they hadn’t broken up, or if the girlfriend hadn’t had the courage to come forward the case might not have gone to trial or resulted in a conviction.

They may even know those someones, and have been talking to them, but unless they're willing to talk, it's like talking to a rock. I've seen folks who have been arrested, and took their full sentences, when they could've gotten a break, by naming a name(s), but they would not talk. They pulled their time, it was theirs to pull. Most folks know, that their statement will be released, and their name will be on them, for everyone to see.

 

[Betty P]

O.J. Simpson was acquitted of murder and there was DNA evidence that he was at the scene of the crime. DNA is not a slam dunk.

Prosecutors frequently get convictions these days based on DNA. Jurors understand it much better now than 20 yrs ago.
It's up to DeWine.

 

[rsd1200]

Prosecutors frequently get convictions these days based on DNA. Jurors understand it much better now than 20 yrs ago.
It's up to DeWine.

I respectfully disagree. I think they're holding off for a reason. Just because dna is in those trailers, may not mean diddly to a lot of folks, (I'm one), mainly because of the fact that they were growing, and, it seems, they'd likely sell it if they were growing as much as was said they were. In the line of work they were in, there's going to be a bunch of dna, and a bunch of familial dna. Unless the victims managed to grab some dna under their fingernails or get a lucky shot off themselves, the fact someone was in that trailer, doesn't mean squat to me. Ever been in a drug dealers trailer? I don't mean that snarky either. They are dens of dna. Also, dna, doesn't mean it is in the database, and they'll find a match, either.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Does this family own a tremendous amount of land that has now been passed down or resold after the murders? Even if some of the victims were just at the wrong place at the wrong time?

By the way. Which victims do y'all think was just collateral damage?

 

[Betty P]

I respectfully disagree. I think they're holding off for a reason. Just because dna is in those trailers, may not mean diddly to a lot of folks, (I'm one), mainly because of the fact that they were growing, and, it seems, they'd likely sell it if they were growing as much as was said they were. In the line of work they were in, there's going to be a bunch of dna, and a bunch of familial dna. Unless the victims managed to grab some dna under their fingernails or get a lucky shot off themselves, the fact someone was in that trailer, doesn't mean squat to me. Ever been in a drug dealers trailer? I don't mean that snarky either. They are dens of dna. Also, dna, doesn't mean it is in the database, and they'll find a match, either.

I have no doubt there is sufficient evidence, DNA and otherwise, to convict at least one of the perps. Enough to get them to turn on the others. Remember, there are 4 different crime scenes and 8 victims. Plenty of opportunity to leave behind evidence.

They have DNA already, along with video or similar evidence that places the "red truck" at one of the crime scenes.

They have what they need already, JMO, and could have begun making arrests in the first months after the murders.

 

[Betty P]

Does this family own a tremendous amount of land that has now been passed down or resold after the murders? Even if some of the victims were just at the wrong place at the wrong time?

By the way. Which victims do y'all think was just collateral damage?

According to probate records, all the real estate and other remaining assets are still tied up in probate court. Most real estate was jointly owned by two of the victims, brothers: Chris Rhoden, Sr and Kenneth Rhoden. The amount of the real estate, primarily undeveloped isn't more than a hundred acres or so and is not of great value. It's mostly hilly, wooded, remote, far off the beaten path.

The surviving family members are poor people and can't afford expensive legal help. They are struggling to keep up with routine probate court fees. All of the homes and the possessions inside of them were confiscated, sealed up and stored in warehouses, where they remain. It's assumed at this point that the homes and the possessions therein are ruined, not worth salvaging. As such, they would have no value as evidence.

LE said they were releasing some vehicles to family, but accounts of that happening are sketchy. It's been alleged most of the more valuable vehicles (including a bulldozer) are still being warehoused at taxpayer expense.

OTOH, the W family, whom LE has implied are the suspects, are free to roam, sell property, move to Alaska, conduct business and live their lives as they wish. The favorable treatment that LE and DeWine has given the alleged suspects compared to their punishing, threatening behavior towards the victims' families has led some of us to speculate that LE was involved in local drug trafficking and thus involved in the murders. JMO.

Also, JMO, the warehousing and ultimate destruction of all possessions of the family was a punitive measure taken by DeWine and LE, not to make them talk, but to intimidate them into silence.

 

[iridized]

According to probate records, all the real estate and other remaining assets are still tied up in court. The surviving family members are poor people and can't afford expensive legal help. All of the homes and the possessions inside of them were confiscated, sealed up and stored in warehouses, where they remain. LE said they were releasing some cars to family, but accounts of that happening are sketchy. It's been alleged most of the more valuable vehicles (including a bulldozer) are still being warehoused at taxpayer expense.

OTOH, the W family, whom LE has implied are the suspects, are free to roam, sell property, move to Alaska, conduct business and live their lives as they wish. The favorable treatment that LE and DeWine has given the alleged suspects compared to their punishing, threatening behavior towards the victims' families has led some of us to speculate that LE was involved in local drug trafficking and thus involved in the murders. JMO.

You state that LE is punishing and threatening the victims' families. Examples of said behavior please.

 

[Betty P]

You state that LE is punishing and threatening the victims' families. Examples of said behavior please.

Examples are the warehousing of all the family possessions to the point of rendering any of it useless as evidence. Why else would they keep all the homes and meager possessions?

Check the media & timelines thread for multiple news stories about delays in publicly announcing the meager awards. Check for any links you can find where anyone in DeWine's office or local LE discussed the reward publicly, using it to encourage the public to share information.

Media & Timeline NO DISCUSSION - Pike Co, OH 8 Family Members Murdered

BTW, have you seen any news recently about the murder of the Rhoden's cousin - Violet Rhoden Taylor? Recall, they tried to say her death was a suicide until other people in the community began talking publicly about the nature of her wound and the presence of a violent ex-con at the death scene.

911 call: Violet Rhoden Taylor's death may have been suicide

Rhoden family member’s Pike County death came from gunshot to chest

Some of us following this case are also recommending viewing of the documentary "Gone: The Forgotten Women of Ohio". It was made by the same people who filmed "Paradise Lost" about the West Memphis 3. Along with a retired FBI agent, the investigators in the "Gone" documentary uncovered a lot of possible LE corruption and suspicious murders of informants who live in the area around Pike County, OH.

Gone: The Forgotten Women of Ohio (TV Mini-Series 2017) - IMDb

 

[iridized]

Examples are the warehousing of all the family possessions to the point of rendering any of it useless as evidence. Why else would they keep all the homes and meager possessions?

Check the media & timelines thread for multiple news stories about delays in publicly announcing the meager awards. Check for any links you can find where anyone in DeWine's office or local LE discussed the reward publicly, using it to encourage the public to share information.

Media & Timeline NO DISCUSSION - Pike Co, OH 8 Family Members Murdered

BTW, have you seen any news recently about the murder of the Rhoden's cousin - Violet Rhoden Taylor? Recall, they tried to say her death was a suicide until other people in the community began talking publicly about the nature of her wound and the presence of a violent ex-con at the death scene.

911 call: Violet Rhoden Taylor's death may have been suicide

Rhoden family member’s Pike County death came from gunshot to chest

Where is the punishing and threatening as I fail to see it in your response. Regarding Violet, I must have missed where "they" officially said it was a suicide. I thought they said it was undetermined even after the initial 911 call said that she had shot herself.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

Does this family own a tremendous amount of land that has now been passed down or resold after the murders? Even if some of the victims were just at the wrong place at the wrong time?

By the way. Which victims do y'all think was just collateral damage?

All property is being held in probate. It’s another way to hold the estates hostage until Le can obtain the evidence they need to prosecute. It’s an old lawyers trick.

I think the youngest were collateral. KR was a killing for something he recently did very wrong to one or more of the master planners. He was most likely a part of that master murder plan and he made someone mad.

It seems a human life has very little value to these people.

 

[Betty P]

Where is the punishing and threatening as I fail to see it in your response. Regarding Violet, I must have missed where "they" officially said it was a suicide. I thought they said it was undetermined even after the initial 911 call said that she had shot herself.

Check out the links provided above and in Violet's thread here at WS. DeWine's office was hinting at suicide early on (why DeWine's office was taking the lead in this investigation, as well as the lead in releasing info to the news media is interesting in and of itself). When social media and reporters began questioning such a quick declaration, they backed off. It's been 2 months now, toxicology, DNA and other reports should be available by now, but there's only silence.

There are some posts in Violet's thread here where we were posting responses to hints of suicide in the news media. Those news reports were later changed to say "undetermined". It was interesting.