OK OK - Girl Scout Murders, Lori Farmer, 8, Michelle Guse, 9, Doris Milner, 10, 1977
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missgulfsouth
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"Welcome to the Hart of Gene Country" certainly sounds like a network of good ole boys to me. Protecting one of their own, despite his despicable crimes. I live in a notoriously corrupt state, too ... Mississippi ... so I'm not biased. Just calling it what it is. And I don't know how one might think of this case logically, it's diabolical. Even 23 years after interviewing a SK I still can't see him rationally, his crimes (committed in the 1960's) will always be raw and horrific to me. But at least he is in prison. These families have no justice ... and at least one murderer may still be walking free.
MaryG12
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I am in the 'I don't think Hart did it' camp - and I also think one of the murderers is still alive, if not both, there was probably at least two people in order to subdue the three little girls. And one of those is a woman. From what I have gathered, this case was mishandled from the start. I have to wonder, whoever did it, if their consciences will ever catch up with them enough to make a confession.
missgulfsouth
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Every article I've read and every YouTube video I've watched suggests gross mishandling across the board. I'm not one to pick on LE, I'm from a family of LE officers. The case against GLH should have been a slam dunk considering all the evidence from the cave and the house. The stealing of glasses was his MO. As was hog tying victims. Shoe prints not matching just suggests a second (third?) killer. A woman helping wouldn't surprise me. How could LE be 1,000% certain of his guilt and a jury acquit? Not proven beyond a reasonable doubt. I wonder if it would have turned out differently if tried in another county.
MaryG12
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Some of the items used in the murder were discovered at a nearby cave.
Does anyone know exactly where the cave was located, was it on Camp Scott property?
As for the cave itself - has ore of any value been detected in it?
From what I have gathered from the threatening note left for the Girl Scouts on campgrounds - the one left in the doughnut box - and the actual time the three girls were murdered - it sounds like someone did not want that camp to open in June of 1977.
Also: does anyone know how many months out of the year Camp Scott was regularly in operation?
Does anyone know exactly where the cave was located, was it on Camp Scott property?
As for the cave itself - has ore of any value been detected in it?
From what I have gathered from the threatening note left for the Girl Scouts on campgrounds - the one left in the doughnut box - and the actual time the three girls were murdered - it sounds like someone did not want that camp to open in June of 1977.
Also: does anyone know how many months out of the year Camp Scott was regularly in operation?
missgulfsouth
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I wonder if Bill Stevens wore size 10 boots. And who wore size 7 sneakers? Possibly 3 killers?
LOL, you guys made me go upstairs and re-check the books stored in our guest bedroom. That's where I last saw my copy of "Someone Cry for the Children". I do think one of my guests made off with it a few years ago.
Between my husband and I and all the books our grown children left at home for safekeeping, we have a lot of books. I know as soon as I buy another copy, I'll find the old one. I'll consider buying anyway if it helps move the discussion along here and helps others learn more about the case.
Between my husband and I and all the books our grown children left at home for safekeeping, we have a lot of books. I know as soon as I buy another copy, I'll find the old one. I'll consider buying anyway if it helps move the discussion along here and helps others learn more about the case.
missgulfsouth
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Still reading all I can find about this case. Wondering if a woman was a lookout, staying in the tent, and the girls were killed one by one. That would explain the sounds for hours. The entire case is so horrifying, but the one most disturbing detail that chills me to the bone is the "guttural sounds" heard throughout the night. What was that?
Does anyone know what is written on the outside of their tent? There are words. It looks like: GIRL SCOUTS ?KICK? ______ COOKIES???
Does anyone know what is written on the outside of their tent? There are words. It looks like: GIRL SCOUTS ?KICK? ______ COOKIES???
Things I recall from reading the book relevant to questions for those new to the case:
- There were large, loud thunderstorms that moved through the Locust Grove/Camp Scott area the night and early morning of the murders. These included a lot of thunder and lightning, wind and heavy rains. That's why the girls all went to their tents early on. There were no activities they could do outdoors. No campfires, etc. It also made it difficult for camp counselors at Kiowa to hear much of anything. Rain continued almost all night and in a tent, it can be pretty loud.
-The bad weather also meant it was very dark that night, no moon or starlight. Details of things/people the campers saw that night were probably not very accurate unless they were using a flashlight. It would be difficult to accurately describe height, clothing, shoes, etc.
- First night at any scout camp under normal circumstances is always full of kids making mischief, getting scared, running to others tents, playing around. Kids often don't get a lot of sleep the first night due to having fun, playing pranks. Explains why counselors, when they heard noises, got up to check on kids but weren't worried about a killer in their midst. It was natural the counselors assumed the noises they could hear were from kids goofing off. Counselors were instructed on this and their focus was on making sure the kids weren't running around outside, making sure they stayed in their tents.
- The 2 counselors, IIRC, weren't from rural areas. They lived in Tulsa or suburbs. When CW heard the strange guttural noises, IIRC, she thought it was some animal, but wasn't sure. Anyone who has gone camping in the woods knows you hear a lot of strange animal noises at night that are benign - owls, raccoons, deer, etc.
- Hart's mother lived nearby the camp. The cave he was suspected of hiding in was about a 2 miles from the camp. Flashlight, tools, empty beer bottles found at the crime scene had stolen in a burglary the week before from a rancher whose property was adjacent to the camp, between the cave and the camp. The cave where evidence was found was not easily accessible and required a hike and some climbing to reach it. The rancher was questioned, investigated, passed a poly exam and found not to be a suspect.
There's a good timeline of the murders and investigation at the following link, along with some helpful maps of the area and important locations.
http://www.girlscoutmurders.com/TIMELINE.html
- There were large, loud thunderstorms that moved through the Locust Grove/Camp Scott area the night and early morning of the murders. These included a lot of thunder and lightning, wind and heavy rains. That's why the girls all went to their tents early on. There were no activities they could do outdoors. No campfires, etc. It also made it difficult for camp counselors at Kiowa to hear much of anything. Rain continued almost all night and in a tent, it can be pretty loud.
-The bad weather also meant it was very dark that night, no moon or starlight. Details of things/people the campers saw that night were probably not very accurate unless they were using a flashlight. It would be difficult to accurately describe height, clothing, shoes, etc.
- First night at any scout camp under normal circumstances is always full of kids making mischief, getting scared, running to others tents, playing around. Kids often don't get a lot of sleep the first night due to having fun, playing pranks. Explains why counselors, when they heard noises, got up to check on kids but weren't worried about a killer in their midst. It was natural the counselors assumed the noises they could hear were from kids goofing off. Counselors were instructed on this and their focus was on making sure the kids weren't running around outside, making sure they stayed in their tents.
- The 2 counselors, IIRC, weren't from rural areas. They lived in Tulsa or suburbs. When CW heard the strange guttural noises, IIRC, she thought it was some animal, but wasn't sure. Anyone who has gone camping in the woods knows you hear a lot of strange animal noises at night that are benign - owls, raccoons, deer, etc.
- Hart's mother lived nearby the camp. The cave he was suspected of hiding in was about a 2 miles from the camp. Flashlight, tools, empty beer bottles found at the crime scene had stolen in a burglary the week before from a rancher whose property was adjacent to the camp, between the cave and the camp. The cave where evidence was found was not easily accessible and required a hike and some climbing to reach it. The rancher was questioned, investigated, passed a poly exam and found not to be a suspect.
There's a good timeline of the murders and investigation at the following link, along with some helpful maps of the area and important locations.
http://www.girlscoutmurders.com/TIMELINE.html
missgulfsouth
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If his mother lived so close, why did he stay in a cave??? After all, she helped him break out of jail...
Thank you for that link, I was on that entire website last night. Question: Why did the ME say the girls were not raped when they were?
Thank you for that link, I was on that entire website last night. Question: Why did the ME say the girls were not raped when they were?
JMO, Hart stayed in the cave instead of his mother's home because local LE were visiting her regularly to see if he was there. Her home probably wasn't very big and it would have been difficult to hide there. He may have stayed there on occasion, when weather was bad, when he needed food, etc. but the cave was his hideout.
WRT ME saying the girls were not raped, IIRC, that was a statement to the news media early in the case. At that time, they probably didn't want to give out much information about the crimes. Information about rapes was presented at the pre-trial hearings and during the trial.
ETA: I don't recall all the details from the book, but there were quite a few leaks to news media early in the investigation. Those in charge were trying to stop the leaks and control the information being released so they could preserve some information to use in ruling out suspects.
Also, WRT the note threatening killing of campers, it was not reported to anyone until after the murders occurred. The note was found in the empty donut box a few months before the murders by a senior girl scout (not a counselor) there in April for a spring camp out. The girl thought it was a joke and threw it away. She didn't mention it to anyone until after the 3 girls were murdered, when she passed the information along. The camp director first heard of it from the senior girl scout's mother around August after the murders.
http://www.girlscoutmurders.com/PreTrialVolume2.pdf
See p 215 of pre-trial testimony
The following page has testimony from Mrs. Day that there was no effigy found at the camp. Some time earlier at another camporee, a girl thought she saw a body hanging in a tree. Camp counselors and directors investigated and found it was just some dead limbs in the tree that probably looked strange to the girl.
Here's a link to the page with all links to pre-trial testimony documents (PDF)
http://www.girlscoutmurders.com/PRETRIAL.html
http://www.girlscoutmurders.com/PreTrialVolume2.pdf
See p 215 of pre-trial testimony
The following page has testimony from Mrs. Day that there was no effigy found at the camp. Some time earlier at another camporee, a girl thought she saw a body hanging in a tree. Camp counselors and directors investigated and found it was just some dead limbs in the tree that probably looked strange to the girl.
Here's a link to the page with all links to pre-trial testimony documents (PDF)
http://www.girlscoutmurders.com/PRETRIAL.html
Continued summary of pre-trial testimony of Mrs. Day and Camp Ranger
Also from Mrs. Day's testimony:
The camp gates were locked the night of the murder by Ben the Ranger around 10:30 or 11 pm, after he picked up his daughter at her job in town.
Ben & Mrs. Day were the only people with keys to the front gate
When the bodies were discovered, Mrs. Day ordered the front gates to be unlocked for LE. Her husband and Ben went there to unlock them and wait for LE and EMS to let them in
The night of the murders, around 9 pm, Mrs. Day and her husband left the camp briefly to go into town and buy milk (they were running out). As they left camp, she observed a car parked nearby on other property with 4 people in it. Looked like 2 couples "parking". One couple was sitting up in the back seat, another couple was laying down in the front seat, legs sticking out of the open front door. When they returned half an hour later the car was gone.
After being alerted and seeing the bodies at Kiowa, Mrs. Day & husband and others returned to the camp rangers home, awakened him. He went with her husband to Kiowa while she made phone call to state highway patrol and the head of the local Girl Scout Council. She ordered the camp closed, visited all the staff tents in each unit and told them there was an emergency, but not to say anything to the kids. She rang the bell for breakfast and instructed all campers go to the Great Hall using only the main road, not walking on any trails. She later worked with LE, but also coordinated with GS Council headquarters to get names of all kids and parents and to notify parents of the deceased girls. There were 135 girls/campers there at the time.
There had also been previous training (weeks before) for staff/counselors about what to do if they spotted intruders in camp. They were to not approach them, but notify leaders/Ranger immediately.
There were no reports of any intruders in the camp just prior to or after this camp session started.
Mrs. Day left the camp nurse and counselors to guard the crime scene at first. Made everyone stay away and not touch anything. Only things touched were Mr. Day touching Doris Milner to see if she was still alive. A counselor picked up and touched one of the other zipped bags with one of the victims inside to see if there was a body inside. Mrs. Day had her husband pull Dori's sleeping bag partially from under her to cover her, without moving her body. Later, the Ranger put rope up around the scene to make sure none of the staff touched anything or walked nearby the scene.
State Trooper Berry was the first they called and arrived within a few minutes. He lived nearby. He called all the other LE and EMS.
Ranger Ben said in 1976, three mothers sleeping in a tent at the Camp reported they saw a man look in their tent. Ranger responded but didn't find anyone.
Ranger had an extra spool of rope in his truck, but used it all to rope off crime scene. He had a roll of duct tape in his tool shed, but no black tape.
Only night time lights were one next to Ranger's house and one near director's cabin. Latrines in each unit had a coleman lantern at night, but may not have been lit due to rainstorm.
Tent flap on Tent #5 was cut on the Saturday before the camp began. It was a new tent. About 4 or 5 ft piece was cut off. There were no campers or staff in the camp at the time, just Ranger and his family
Ranger Ben had worked as ranger for 4 years. He lived at the camp full time with is wife and 4 kids. His job was security, etc.
Didn't have much problem in the past with trespassers. It was usually people coming in to swim down at the lower part of the camp.
Great Hall was burglarized once. Someone broke in and stole some flour, other dry goods.
Gate was left unlocked Saturday night. Girls arrived Sunday afternoon. After buses left, Mr. Day and Ranger were the only men in the camp.
Ranger Ben says he let Mr Day take his truck to unlock the front gate for LE. He stayed at the crime scene alone til Trooper Berry arrived a few minutes later around 6:30 am. Camp counselors who had been at the scene returned to take care of the other campers. Ambulances came next, then county sheriff.
Ranger Ben later walked around Kiowa unit and field of neighboring private property with Sheriff Weaver, but didn't see anything. Later he loaned LE his saw so they could cut out flooring of crime scene tent with footprints on it.
Ranger Ben was wearing cowboy boots that morning. Camp Director Mrs. Day was wearing flip flops.
Ranger Ben was interviewed several times, like other staff there that day. He also took poly exams twice, gave hair and saliva samples, finger and palm prints. He had no criminal record.
Also from Mrs. Day's testimony:
The camp gates were locked the night of the murder by Ben the Ranger around 10:30 or 11 pm, after he picked up his daughter at her job in town.
Ben & Mrs. Day were the only people with keys to the front gate
When the bodies were discovered, Mrs. Day ordered the front gates to be unlocked for LE. Her husband and Ben went there to unlock them and wait for LE and EMS to let them in
The night of the murders, around 9 pm, Mrs. Day and her husband left the camp briefly to go into town and buy milk (they were running out). As they left camp, she observed a car parked nearby on other property with 4 people in it. Looked like 2 couples "parking". One couple was sitting up in the back seat, another couple was laying down in the front seat, legs sticking out of the open front door. When they returned half an hour later the car was gone.
After being alerted and seeing the bodies at Kiowa, Mrs. Day & husband and others returned to the camp rangers home, awakened him. He went with her husband to Kiowa while she made phone call to state highway patrol and the head of the local Girl Scout Council. She ordered the camp closed, visited all the staff tents in each unit and told them there was an emergency, but not to say anything to the kids. She rang the bell for breakfast and instructed all campers go to the Great Hall using only the main road, not walking on any trails. She later worked with LE, but also coordinated with GS Council headquarters to get names of all kids and parents and to notify parents of the deceased girls. There were 135 girls/campers there at the time.
There had also been previous training (weeks before) for staff/counselors about what to do if they spotted intruders in camp. They were to not approach them, but notify leaders/Ranger immediately.
There were no reports of any intruders in the camp just prior to or after this camp session started.
Mrs. Day left the camp nurse and counselors to guard the crime scene at first. Made everyone stay away and not touch anything. Only things touched were Mr. Day touching Doris Milner to see if she was still alive. A counselor picked up and touched one of the other zipped bags with one of the victims inside to see if there was a body inside. Mrs. Day had her husband pull Dori's sleeping bag partially from under her to cover her, without moving her body. Later, the Ranger put rope up around the scene to make sure none of the staff touched anything or walked nearby the scene.
State Trooper Berry was the first they called and arrived within a few minutes. He lived nearby. He called all the other LE and EMS.
Ranger Ben said in 1976, three mothers sleeping in a tent at the Camp reported they saw a man look in their tent. Ranger responded but didn't find anyone.
Ranger had an extra spool of rope in his truck, but used it all to rope off crime scene. He had a roll of duct tape in his tool shed, but no black tape.
Only night time lights were one next to Ranger's house and one near director's cabin. Latrines in each unit had a coleman lantern at night, but may not have been lit due to rainstorm.
Tent flap on Tent #5 was cut on the Saturday before the camp began. It was a new tent. About 4 or 5 ft piece was cut off. There were no campers or staff in the camp at the time, just Ranger and his family
Ranger Ben had worked as ranger for 4 years. He lived at the camp full time with is wife and 4 kids. His job was security, etc.
Didn't have much problem in the past with trespassers. It was usually people coming in to swim down at the lower part of the camp.
Great Hall was burglarized once. Someone broke in and stole some flour, other dry goods.
Gate was left unlocked Saturday night. Girls arrived Sunday afternoon. After buses left, Mr. Day and Ranger were the only men in the camp.
Ranger Ben says he let Mr Day take his truck to unlock the front gate for LE. He stayed at the crime scene alone til Trooper Berry arrived a few minutes later around 6:30 am. Camp counselors who had been at the scene returned to take care of the other campers. Ambulances came next, then county sheriff.
Ranger Ben later walked around Kiowa unit and field of neighboring private property with Sheriff Weaver, but didn't see anything. Later he loaned LE his saw so they could cut out flooring of crime scene tent with footprints on it.
Ranger Ben was wearing cowboy boots that morning. Camp Director Mrs. Day was wearing flip flops.
Ranger Ben was interviewed several times, like other staff there that day. He also took poly exams twice, gave hair and saliva samples, finger and palm prints. He had no criminal record.
HoneyWest
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It says "Girl Scouts" then underneath "Magic Empire Council".
missgulfsouth
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Thank you! I couldn't make out the words at all!
*figures I'd have cookies on the brain...*
missgulfsouth
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Just finished reading Barbara Day's testimony ... I have so many questions. Thanks for sharing that link!
Would anyone like to PM me if you have a female accomplice in mind for this?
Wish I could help, but I see no realistic scenario, nor any evidence for a woman to be involved in these murders. IMO, it's a red herring and not a very good one at that.
Apparently the rumor began when some DNA testing identified a small amount female DNA on one of the pillowcases of a victim. Could have been any number of legitimate sources for that.
First, none of the counselors at Kiowa were from the area. They were from Tulsa and one from Arkansas. When would they have encountered Hart to plan a murder of 3 innocent girls under their care? Which other staff at the camp would have been involved with Hart? The Ranger's wife with 3 kids and a husband who was at home full time?
What would be the motive for young women (late teens) working for Girl Scouts as counselors to molest and murder 3 young girls under their care? Women who came from good backgrounds and had no criminal or aberrant history? What would they gain from killing 3 young girls in a very high risk murder scenario, surrounded by over 100 young girls and adult staff?
If a stranger to the camp, who and why? What woman gains anything from hanging out with a dangerous rapist, murderer and pedophile? Why and how would she meet up with him and tramp through dark woods and fields in the middle of the night to stand watch while he murdered and raped 3 young girls?
If it's the print of a tennis shoe in the dirt outside the tent, well, they were in a camp full of young girls and women.
I don't mind taking a fresh look at this case, but I'm not anywhere near thinking a woman was involved. Just doesn't fit the evidence or profile for this type of crime.
missgulfsouth
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According to the pre-trial testimony link you provided, Barbara Day was questioned (almost) about her sexual history ... this line of questioning was objected to. But according to the questioning, detectives felt strongly that a female (lesbian) was involved in the murders. This pre-trial testimony was WELL before DNA was even a thing, so their suspicions couldn't possibly have been rumor-based on DNA samples.They strongly felt that a woman helped. The size 7 tennis shoe print was a factor in their suspicions because it was in the same line of questioning. As to the shoe print itself, it was outside the tent, in mud after the heavy rains would have washed away any other traces of shoe prints in the camp, no doubt. The shoe print would have been left in those wee morning hours after the rain had stopped. The only people who were at tent #7 that morning were the killers, Carla (checking for the girls after she saw the one body), Barbara Day when she showed the officers the tent where the girls had been, and police officers. All of the other girls were led straight from their tents to the kitchen for breakfast. Carla and Barbara's shoes were compared to the size 7 print.
I don't believe any of the killers worked at the camp. This case sort of reminds me of the movie The Strangers ... creeping around all night, being seen sneaking in the woods, touching different girls in the darkness on the way to the latrines, like it was some kind of game.
What kind of woman would hang out with rapists, pedophiles, killers? Many have. But Karla Homolka to name one.
I don't believe any of the killers worked at the camp. This case sort of reminds me of the movie The Strangers ... creeping around all night, being seen sneaking in the woods, touching different girls in the darkness on the way to the latrines, like it was some kind of game.
What kind of woman would hang out with rapists, pedophiles, killers? Many have. But Karla Homolka to name one.
Testimony from Dee Elder, Kiowa counselor
http://nebula.wsimg.com/86f8345cd1d...4109980B88DCD7256&disposition=0&alloworigin=1
Note: At the beginning of Dee's testimony, it was noted that Gene LeRoy Hart's mother was in the courtroom, observing. She was allowed to remain their, during the preliminary hearing testimony of the Kiowa Camp counselors Dee E and Carla W, as long as she didn't discuss their testimony with any other witnesses. Oookaaay. Wow.
Kids arrived about 2 or 3 pm on Sunday. Mrs. Day gave them the list of who would be in their camp. They helped kids get settled into tents.
Went up for dinner at 6 pm.
Left about 6:30 pm, went back to camp
Had kids stay in tents because of weather. Visited tents to make sure they were ok.
About 9 pm, went to Main Hall and staff area to get books to read (Winnie the Pooh) and cookies for the girls. Carla W and Susan E stayed back at camp with girls. Came back and took girls to camp kitchen for cookies and story time. Kids wore rain gear, still raining.
Took kids back to tents around 10 pm. Lights out at 10:30 pm. At that time, went to the door of each tent and talked to kids. Made sure they were ok. Each girl was required to bring their own flashlight, their only light. Closed flaps on tents because of weather.
Girls were noisy til late at night. Talking, yelling, etc. Normal for first night. Counselors had to yell a couple of times to tell them to quiet down. Finally quiet about 1 am. At 1:30 am, heard a door slam. Carla got up, it was two girls going to the latrine. She took them back to their tents. Was quiet after that. They all fell asleep, everyone was really tired.
Awoke at 6 am. Carla got up to got to showers in staff quarters. Dee heard her yell from the road that they had to check all the tents to see who was there. Carla started at Tent 1, Dee went to Tent 7. Saw the beds were empty, no kids, no sleeping bags, mattress covers gone. Saw blood on mattress and on floor. Couldn't see much else as it was dark inside. Ran out of tent. Kept counting kids. Thought someone had a nosebleed at first and went to another tent.
Heard Susan Emery who began to scream. Told her to be quiet and stay there with the kids. Ran down the road to her car and drove to Mrs. Day's cabin to get her. As she went by the scene she saw sleeping bags on the ground. On the way she saw the nurse coming. Stopped briefly to talk to her and said she thought some girls were dead.
By the time she got to Mrs.Day's they were already leaving to go to the scene- Mr & Mrs Day & Carla W. She paused, went to staff bldg. left her car and walked back to Kiowa. Barbara Day walked up and told her what happened. Dee went to where they were all standing near crime scene, but didn't go close enough to look.
Mrs Day told her to go wash her face and get back to Kiowa to take care of the kids. She went to Quapaw unit where a friend was counselor. Talked to her, they walked to staff house, but it was locked, so she went back to Quapaw with friend and counted all their kids, then went back to Kiowa.
Back at Kiowa talked to other staff and came up with something to tell the kids, then got them out of there using a different path so they didn't walk by the crime scene. Went to Main Hall with the kids to have breakfast. During breakfast, State Police questioned all 3 counselors in Mrs. Day's office about what happened.
After, they took the kids to the craft hut, where they worked on crafts til early afternoon. During that time they were questioned again by Barbara Huff, who worked for District Attorney.
Huff also asked the kids in Kiowa and nearby if they heard anything that night. They told the kids a story, didn't say there had been murders. Dee also asked kids in Kiowa if they heard anything and they said no.
Dee and other counselors were questioned again later by OSBI or FBI agent. He talked to all of the staff in Great Hall. He questioned everyone one at a time. It was after the kids left camp on the buses, around 4:30 or 5 pm. After that, she left in her car for Tulsa, where she was staying with friends.
During cross exam, Dee stated she saw no other men besides Mr Day and the Ranger at the camp on the day before camp began or the first day. Also questioned about a towel in the counselors tent that they used during the storm. She said it was hanging in front of the tent. They all used it to dry off, then later put it on the floor and wiped their feet on it. After putting the kids to bed, she wrung it out and hung it up on the end of Carla's bed.
She said no boyfriends were in camp during orientation, that she knew of.
She gave hair, fingerprints, saliva sample, and allowed photographs with investigators.
She said Jerry Thurman called on the phone later and questioned her. He asked if she was missing her glasses. She said no, she thought she was but found them later. When asked, she said she thought someone else at camp had reported missing their glasses.
(note, in his testimony, Ranger Ben reported that he was with other searchers when they found some eyeglasses under a bush by the road not far from the crime scene, shortly after the girls bodies were found.)
Dee didn't return to her tent until Wed, June 14. She was escorted there with the DA and other LE. They examined and inventoried her belongings at that time. Nothing was missing.
All three counselors at Kiowa were accompanied by officers when they returned to their tents. All their belongings were examined and inventoried by LE. They were then allowed to take their possessions with them. No one claimed the dirty wet towel, it was taken by the DA.
She was shown the flashlight and roll of tape, but didn't recognize them.
After inventorying her possessions, she was allowed to take them and leave, returned to Tulsa. On Thursday, she returned to her home in Arkansas. Was later called on the phone by Agent Thurman with follow up questions. In May 1978, she was in Tulsa where she was questioned by Thurman about shoes she was wearning and whether she had been in victims tent. She said no. She had only stood at the door when the girls went to bed and again in the morning when she went to check to see which campers were present. She was wearing old tennis shoes. The shoe imprints they were asking about had holes and lines on the soles.
Still on cross exam:
Was it light when she looked out at 1 am? No. It was very dark. No moon. Was not aware of anyone who left the camp that night. Only briefly talked with the prosecutor just before testifying. Hasn't talked to any lawyer except the one retained by the Girl Scount council.
How long did she know Ranger Ben? From 1975, when she counseled at camp before, then again a little when she came back summer of 1977. Knew Carla W from when she counseled at Camp Scott since 1975.
Why did Carla get up to respond to noise at 1:30 am? She was closest to the door of the tent.
Carla has never mentioned Gene Leroy Hart to her. No one has mentioned him to her during the investigation. She does not know him.
When Carla got up at 1:30 am to go to Tent 7, how long was she gone? A: She didn't go to Tent 7, she went to the latrine to escort 2 girls back to their tent. They were not from Tent 7.
Have you told everything you know about this event? A: I think so.
http://nebula.wsimg.com/86f8345cd1d...4109980B88DCD7256&disposition=0&alloworigin=1
Note: At the beginning of Dee's testimony, it was noted that Gene LeRoy Hart's mother was in the courtroom, observing. She was allowed to remain their, during the preliminary hearing testimony of the Kiowa Camp counselors Dee E and Carla W, as long as she didn't discuss their testimony with any other witnesses. Oookaaay. Wow.
Kids arrived about 2 or 3 pm on Sunday. Mrs. Day gave them the list of who would be in their camp. They helped kids get settled into tents.
Went up for dinner at 6 pm.
Left about 6:30 pm, went back to camp
Had kids stay in tents because of weather. Visited tents to make sure they were ok.
About 9 pm, went to Main Hall and staff area to get books to read (Winnie the Pooh) and cookies for the girls. Carla W and Susan E stayed back at camp with girls. Came back and took girls to camp kitchen for cookies and story time. Kids wore rain gear, still raining.
Took kids back to tents around 10 pm. Lights out at 10:30 pm. At that time, went to the door of each tent and talked to kids. Made sure they were ok. Each girl was required to bring their own flashlight, their only light. Closed flaps on tents because of weather.
Girls were noisy til late at night. Talking, yelling, etc. Normal for first night. Counselors had to yell a couple of times to tell them to quiet down. Finally quiet about 1 am. At 1:30 am, heard a door slam. Carla got up, it was two girls going to the latrine. She took them back to their tents. Was quiet after that. They all fell asleep, everyone was really tired.
Awoke at 6 am. Carla got up to got to showers in staff quarters. Dee heard her yell from the road that they had to check all the tents to see who was there. Carla started at Tent 1, Dee went to Tent 7. Saw the beds were empty, no kids, no sleeping bags, mattress covers gone. Saw blood on mattress and on floor. Couldn't see much else as it was dark inside. Ran out of tent. Kept counting kids. Thought someone had a nosebleed at first and went to another tent.
Heard Susan Emery who began to scream. Told her to be quiet and stay there with the kids. Ran down the road to her car and drove to Mrs. Day's cabin to get her. As she went by the scene she saw sleeping bags on the ground. On the way she saw the nurse coming. Stopped briefly to talk to her and said she thought some girls were dead.
By the time she got to Mrs.Day's they were already leaving to go to the scene- Mr & Mrs Day & Carla W. She paused, went to staff bldg. left her car and walked back to Kiowa. Barbara Day walked up and told her what happened. Dee went to where they were all standing near crime scene, but didn't go close enough to look.
Mrs Day told her to go wash her face and get back to Kiowa to take care of the kids. She went to Quapaw unit where a friend was counselor. Talked to her, they walked to staff house, but it was locked, so she went back to Quapaw with friend and counted all their kids, then went back to Kiowa.
Back at Kiowa talked to other staff and came up with something to tell the kids, then got them out of there using a different path so they didn't walk by the crime scene. Went to Main Hall with the kids to have breakfast. During breakfast, State Police questioned all 3 counselors in Mrs. Day's office about what happened.
After, they took the kids to the craft hut, where they worked on crafts til early afternoon. During that time they were questioned again by Barbara Huff, who worked for District Attorney.
Huff also asked the kids in Kiowa and nearby if they heard anything that night. They told the kids a story, didn't say there had been murders. Dee also asked kids in Kiowa if they heard anything and they said no.
Dee and other counselors were questioned again later by OSBI or FBI agent. He talked to all of the staff in Great Hall. He questioned everyone one at a time. It was after the kids left camp on the buses, around 4:30 or 5 pm. After that, she left in her car for Tulsa, where she was staying with friends.
During cross exam, Dee stated she saw no other men besides Mr Day and the Ranger at the camp on the day before camp began or the first day. Also questioned about a towel in the counselors tent that they used during the storm. She said it was hanging in front of the tent. They all used it to dry off, then later put it on the floor and wiped their feet on it. After putting the kids to bed, she wrung it out and hung it up on the end of Carla's bed.
She said no boyfriends were in camp during orientation, that she knew of.
She gave hair, fingerprints, saliva sample, and allowed photographs with investigators.
She said Jerry Thurman called on the phone later and questioned her. He asked if she was missing her glasses. She said no, she thought she was but found them later. When asked, she said she thought someone else at camp had reported missing their glasses.
(note, in his testimony, Ranger Ben reported that he was with other searchers when they found some eyeglasses under a bush by the road not far from the crime scene, shortly after the girls bodies were found.)
Dee didn't return to her tent until Wed, June 14. She was escorted there with the DA and other LE. They examined and inventoried her belongings at that time. Nothing was missing.
All three counselors at Kiowa were accompanied by officers when they returned to their tents. All their belongings were examined and inventoried by LE. They were then allowed to take their possessions with them. No one claimed the dirty wet towel, it was taken by the DA.
She was shown the flashlight and roll of tape, but didn't recognize them.
After inventorying her possessions, she was allowed to take them and leave, returned to Tulsa. On Thursday, she returned to her home in Arkansas. Was later called on the phone by Agent Thurman with follow up questions. In May 1978, she was in Tulsa where she was questioned by Thurman about shoes she was wearning and whether she had been in victims tent. She said no. She had only stood at the door when the girls went to bed and again in the morning when she went to check to see which campers were present. She was wearing old tennis shoes. The shoe imprints they were asking about had holes and lines on the soles.
Still on cross exam:
Was it light when she looked out at 1 am? No. It was very dark. No moon. Was not aware of anyone who left the camp that night. Only briefly talked with the prosecutor just before testifying. Hasn't talked to any lawyer except the one retained by the Girl Scount council.
How long did she know Ranger Ben? From 1975, when she counseled at camp before, then again a little when she came back summer of 1977. Knew Carla W from when she counseled at Camp Scott since 1975.
Why did Carla get up to respond to noise at 1:30 am? She was closest to the door of the tent.
Carla has never mentioned Gene Leroy Hart to her. No one has mentioned him to her during the investigation. She does not know him.
When Carla got up at 1:30 am to go to Tent 7, how long was she gone? A: She didn't go to Tent 7, she went to the latrine to escort 2 girls back to their tent. They were not from Tent 7.
Have you told everything you know about this event? A: I think so.
How would LE have known that a woman who was a lesbian was involved in the murders? Keep in mind, this was Oklahoma in 1977-78.
As for the shoe print in the mud outside tent 7, I haven't seen any evidence yet saying it was a size 7. Maybe it was, don't know for sure. There were quite a few people walking around Tent 7 that day: LE, photographers, Barbara Day, etc.
Yes, in 1977, there may have been rare cases of women murderers who hung out with pedophiles/rapists/kidnappers/murderers. How many would have gone to such great lengths, tromping through a mile of dense, hilly woodlands and fields on a hot, stormy night, to help kill 3 kids at Girl Scout Camp? What's the reward? Proving that you love your crazy boyfriend? A bottle of warm beer to drink? If such a woman were being forced to participate against her will, the dark stormy night in woods/fields would have provided her with ample opportunity to escape and get help. The town and local police station were not far away, within walking distance, as were houses to seek help.
For those who believe it was a woman co-conspirator inside the camp, how were they able to dispose of their bloody clothing without LE discovering it. From the time they were called, LE stayed on premises and restricted access for about 1 month. During that time, they searched everything. They escorted staff to retrieve their belongings and inspected and inventoried every item. Checked every vehicle that came and went.
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