OR OR - Kelly James (dead), Brian Hall, 37, Jerry Cooke, 36, Mt. Hood Climbers, Dec 2006

scandi said:
Thanks Steve, sounds like a very interesting show, especially after all we have learned about Mountaineering as of late. It is the highest peak on the continent of North America, and some say more difficult to climb than Everest because it is colder. { :rolleyes: sorry, I wrote that in another post but thought it bore repeating}.
My understanding is that Everest is difficult mainly because of the lack of oxygen once you are near the top; you end up having to spend basically an entire (LONG) day hiking up to the top, spending 5 minutes there, and then rushing back down to avoid running out of oxygen, even with caches. It helps that many travel with groups of sherpas who do much of the work.

I have some friends who did Kilimanjaro in Africa (the highest peak on that continent), which apparently isn't very difficult at all if you are in decent shape. I've heard the same about Mt. Rainier here in Washington - heck, even Al Gore and his 16-year old son did it when he was still Vice President.

(FYI... I didn't even know that Mt. Hood is the second most climbed-mountain in the world, after Mt. Fuji in Japan. 10,000 people every year try.)
 
FYI at camping stores and some drug stores (at least here in New England) you can buy hand and foot warmers that last something like 8-12 hours. That would be a good thing to put in your car, too.

luvbeaches said:
Well, thank you. Sometimes I am a reader, other times I post. And when I do finally post...I do it a lot. But for the most part, I'm like you, everyone else seems to cover what I would have said.

Speaking of being prepared....we usually travel to a convention the first week of December, but this year we decided we were just too busy to attend. As it turned out, there was a huge blizzard and the highway we would have been on was closed (at the time we would have been on it). People were stranded for a day in their car. We usually have a blanket or two in the car, but after seeing what happened this year...we'll make sure and have extra blankets, water and food.

You're right...if you're not afraid of doing risky things, then it's really a good idea to be prepared for the worst.
 
I'm such a wimp but even looking at pictures of Mt McKinley makes me nervous. Mt. Everest i'm in an all out anxiety attack lol :waitasec:



Lurker Steve said:
Just a note... tonight at 11pm on the Discover Channel, they will be airing an episode of "I Shouldn't Be Alive" about three climbers trapped on Mt. McKinley during a blizzard.

What might have been :(
 
Lurker Steve said:
My understanding is that Everest is difficult mainly because of the lack of oxygen once you are near the top; you end up having to spend basically an entire (LONG) day hiking up to the top, spending 5 minutes there, and then rushing back down to avoid running out of oxygen, even with caches. It helps that many travel with groups of sherpas who do much of the work.

SNIP

climbing Everest is now an option for anyone who can afford the trip (over US $60,000), although they need to be in very good shape and understand that the mountain carries a lot of risk.

The climate of Mount Everest is naturally extreme. In January, the coldest month, the summit temperature averages -36° C (-33° F) and can drop as low as -60° C (-76° F). In July, the warmest month, the average summit temperature is -19° C (-2° F). At no time of the year does the temperature on the summit rise above freezing.

it's not without its risks; most of which stem from the extremely low Oxygen content in the air in "The Death Zone" above 22,000 ft. While conditions for any area classified as a death zone apply to Mount Everest (altitudes higher than 8,000 m), it is significantly more difficult for a climber to survive at the death zone on Mount Everest. Temperatures can dip to very low levels, resulting in frostbite of any body part exposed to the air. Because temperatures are so low, snow is well-frozen in certain areas and death by slipping and falling can also occur. High winds at these altitudes on Everest are also a potential threat to climbers. The atmospheric pressure at the top of Everest is about a third of sea level pressure, meaning there is about a third as much oxygen available to breathe as at sea level.[

When Jon Krakauer reached the summit of Mt. Everest in the early afternoon of May 10, 1996, he hadn't slept in fifty seven hours and was reeling from the brain-altering affects of oxygen depletion. As he turned to begin his long, dangerous descent from 29,028 feet, twenty other climbers were still pushing doggedly toward the top. No one had noticed that the sky had begun to fill with clouds. Six hours later and 3,000 feet lower, as the storm swept the peak with seventy knot winds and blinding snow, Krakauer collapsed in his tent, freezing, hallucinating from exhaustion and hypoxia, but safe. The following morning he awakened to learn that six of his companions hadn't made it back to their camp, and were in a desperate struggle for their lives. When the storm finally passed, five of his fellow climbers would be dead, and the sixth was so horribly frostbitten that he would have both of his hands and nose amputated after a dangerous helicopter rescue at 20,000 feet. By the time all expeditions had quit the mountain and departed Nepal, twelve people had perished on the slopes of Everest.

Life-threatening thefts
Other climbers have reported life-threatening thefts from supply caches. Vitor Negrete, the first Brazilian to climb Everest without oxygen and part of David Sharp's party, died during his descent, and theft from his high-altitude camp may have contributed.[17]

Euophrys omnisuperstes, a minute black jumping spider, has been found at elevations as high as 6,700 meters, possibly making it the highest known permanent resident on earth. They lurk in crevices and possibly feed on frozen insects that have been blown there by the wind.

Birds, such as the bar-headed goose have been seen flying at the higher altitudes of the mountain, while others such as the Chough have been spotted at high levels on the mountain itself, scavenging on food, or even corpses, left over by climbing expeditions.

Facts
As of the end of the 2004 climbing season, 2,238 people had reached the summit (1,148 of them since 1998) and 186 people died while summitting. The conditions on the mountain are so difficult that most of the corpses have been left where they fell; some of them are easily visible from the standard climbing routes.
Most expeditions use oxygen masks and tanks [13] above 26,246 feet (8,000 m); this region is known as the death zone. Everest can be climbed without supplementary oxygen but this increases the risk to the climber. Humans do not think clearly with low oxygen, and the combination of severe weather, low temperatures, and steep slopes often require quick, accurate decisions.
Mountain climbers are a significant source of tourist revenue for Nepal; they range from experienced mountaineers to relative novices who count on their paid guides to get them to the top. The Nepalese government also requires a permit from all prospective climbers; this carries a heavy fee, often more than $25,000 per person.[4]



 
RoughlyCollie said:
FYI at camping stores and some drug stores (at least here in New England) you can buy hand and foot warmers that last something like 8-12 hours. That would be a good thing to put in your car, too.
Costco has big boxes of hand warmers. Pretty cheap, and you can probably use the hand-warmers in your feet.

Keep some food in the car too... energy bars work really well, since they have calories and nutrients. I like Cliff and Luna bars. Trader Joes sells these by the box, and they're fairly inexpensive to get this way. I imagine anything would work - granola bars, trail mix, whatever.
 
Lurker Steve said:
Costco has big boxes of hand warmers. Pretty cheap, and you can probably use the hand-warmers in your feet.

Keep some food in the car too... energy bars work really well, since they have calories and nutrients. I like Cliff and Luna bars. Trader Joes sells these by the box, and they're fairly inexpensive to get this way. I imagine anything would work - granola bars, trail mix, whatever.
Hey Steve, the Costco stores around here don't carry hand-warmers--looks as if I need to make a field trip to your Costco. The Costcos around here didn't even carry thermal underwear this year. I should've driven up to Reno a month ago--they have the winter things at the Costco there.
 
Buzzm1 said:
Hey Steve, the Costco stores around here don't carry hand-warmers--looks as if I need to make a field trip to your Costco. The Costcos around here didn't even carry thermal underwear this year. I should've driven up to Reno a month ago--they have the winter things at the Costco there.
Maybe it's because we are so close to skiing areas.

For thermal underwear, I ordered some silk ones from Sierra Trading Post:

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/product.aspx?baseno=12040&CN=Terramar-Long-Underwear%3Cbr%3ESilk-Crew-Neck-Top---Long-Sleeve-For-Men

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/product.aspx?baseno=13040&CN=Terramar-Silk-Long-Underwear-Bottoms-For-Men

I used them on my last snowshoeing trip... nice and warm.
 
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=1027&memberId=12500226&storeId=226&catalogId=40000000226&langId=-1

http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=39157510&memberId=12500226&storeId=226&catalogId=40000000226&langId=-1

You can buy hand and foot warmers online at Campmor, links above, if you can't find them anywhere else.

I've ordered from this site many times and have never had a problem.

You can also buy folding and telescoping shovels, HeatSheet emergency survival blankets, and a 120-hour Nuwick Candle (used for light, heat and cooking) there.
 
Buzzm1 said:
climbing Everest is now an option for anyone who can afford the trip (over US $60,000), although they need to be in very good shape and understand that the mountain carries a lot of risk.

The climate of Mount Everest is naturally extreme. In January, the coldest month, the summit temperature averages -36° C (-33° F) and can drop as low as -60° C (-76° F). In July, the warmest month, the average summit temperature is -19° C (-2° F). At no time of the year does the temperature on the summit rise above freezing.

it's not without its risks; most of which stem from the extremely low Oxygen content in the air in "The Death Zone" above 22,000 ft. While conditions for any area classified as a death zone apply to Mount Everest (altitudes higher than 8,000 m), it is significantly more difficult for a climber to survive at the death zone on Mount Everest. Temperatures can dip to very low levels, resulting in frostbite of any body part exposed to the air. Because temperatures are so low, snow is well-frozen in certain areas and death by slipping and falling can also occur. High winds at these altitudes on Everest are also a potential threat to climbers. The atmospheric pressure at the top of Everest is about a third of sea level pressure, meaning there is about a third as much oxygen available to breathe as at sea level.[

When Jon Krakauer reached the summit of Mt. Everest in the early afternoon of May 10, 1996, he hadn't slept in fifty seven hours and was reeling from the brain-altering affects of oxygen depletion. As he turned to begin his long, dangerous descent from 29,028 feet, twenty other climbers were still pushing doggedly toward the top. No one had noticed that the sky had begun to fill with clouds. Six hours later and 3,000 feet lower, as the storm swept the peak with seventy knot winds and blinding snow, Krakauer collapsed in his tent, freezing, hallucinating from exhaustion and hypoxia, but safe. The following morning he awakened to learn that six of his companions hadn't made it back to their camp, and were in a desperate struggle for their lives. When the storm finally passed, five of his fellow climbers would be dead, and the sixth was so horribly frostbitten that he would have both of his hands and nose amputated after a dangerous helicopter rescue at 20,000 feet. By the time all expeditions had quit the mountain and departed Nepal, twelve people had perished on the slopes of Everest.

Life-threatening thefts
Other climbers have reported life-threatening thefts from supply caches. Vitor Negrete, the first Brazilian to climb Everest without oxygen and part of David Sharp's party, died during his descent, and theft from his high-altitude camp may have contributed.[17]

Euophrys omnisuperstes, a minute black jumping spider, has been found at elevations as high as 6,700 meters, possibly making it the highest known permanent resident on earth. They lurk in crevices and possibly feed on frozen insects that have been blown there by the wind.

Birds, such as the bar-headed goose have been seen flying at the higher altitudes of the mountain, while others such as the Chough have been spotted at high levels on the mountain itself, scavenging on food, or even corpses, left over by climbing expeditions.

Facts
As of the end of the 2004 climbing season, 2,238 people had reached the summit (1,148 of them since 1998) and 186 people died while summitting. The conditions on the mountain are so difficult that most of the corpses have been left where they fell; some of them are easily visible from the standard climbing routes.
Most expeditions use oxygen masks and tanks [13] above 26,246 feet (8,000 m); this region is known as the death zone. Everest can be climbed without supplementary oxygen but this increases the risk to the climber. Humans do not think clearly with low oxygen, and the combination of severe weather, low temperatures, and steep slopes often require quick, accurate decisions.
Mountain climbers are a significant source of tourist revenue for Nepal; they range from experienced mountaineers to relative novices who count on their paid guides to get them to the top. The Nepalese government also requires a permit from all prospective climbers; this carries a heavy fee, often more than $25,000 per person.[4]


Now if that doesn't sound like fun, I don't know what does.... :sick:
 
Good Morning,

Frostbite is narly. The flesh swells and turns black. Buzz, when people die from freezing in the wilderness, these bodies freeze to look normal, don't they?

I know that's kind of a bizarre question sweetie.

I was disappointed that the mountain show last night on Discovery was one I had already seen. It wasn't about Mt McKinley but rather about how a father, his wife and baby got stranded in the snow for 9 days. They all lived but the mom and baby had to have all of their toes removed as they were frostbitten. I woke up in the middle of the night and was visualizing the guy in the Everest show with the frostbitten hand that he held up. So awful!

Off to bake cookies Buzz! ;)
 
Lurker Steve said:
Maybe it's because we are so close to skiing areas.

For thermal underwear, I ordered some silk ones from Sierra Trading Post:

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/product.aspx?baseno=12040&CN=Terramar-Long-Underwear%3Cbr%3ESilk-Crew-Neck-Top---Long-Sleeve-For-Men

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/product.aspx?baseno=13040&CN=Terramar-Silk-Long-Underwear-Bottoms-For-Men

I used them on my last snowshoeing trip... nice and warm.


http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/s...00226&langId=-1

http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/s...00226&langId=-1

You can buy hand and foot warmers online at Campmor, links above, if you can't find them anywhere else.

I've ordered from this site many times and have never had a problem.

You can also buy folding and telescoping shovels, HeatSheet emergency survival blankets, and a 120-hour Nuwick Candle (used for light, heat and cooking) there.
Thanks for the info Steve, and RC. I've been shopping for thermals online, and have been patiently waiting for the sales. How long is the shelf-life for hand-warmers, and foot-warmers??
 
well geez, by the time you go through all that to get to the top, do you even have your wits about you enough to enjoy it at all?? that's what i wanna know.
 
Buzzm1 said:
Thanks for the info Steve, and RC. I've been shopping for thermals online, and have been patiently waiting for the sales. How long is the shelf-life for hand-warmers, and foot-warmers??
It depends on the brand, but I've heard four to six years as long as they are kept sealed.
 
Watched the Discovery program, thank you Lurker Steve. I am a firm believer in letting people know where you are going etc., and the route you are taking.

Here is some Colorado history that will be interesting reading for those who have never heard of Alferd Packer, happened in 1863.


http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/history/alfred_packer/index.html

Harsh winter conditions do terrible things to folks left in the cold for too long. Read some Colorado history about Alferd Packer, who ate his companions, and emerged from the cold with their wallets.

http://www.colorado.edu/umc/food/alferdPackerGrill.html
University of Colorado food court named the 'Alferd Packer Grill'.* Quite a menu

.
 
I watched the program, too, and found this on the web today. Very interesting for those who have seen the program. Gives a different perspective to it.

The most shameful act in the history of mountaineering: "Everest: Beyond the limit"

http://www.mounteverest.net/news.php?news=15288
 
Camper said:
Watched the Discovery program, thank you Lurker Steve. I am a firm believer in letting people know where you are going etc., and the route you are taking.

Here is some Colorado history that will be interesting reading for those who have never heard of Alferd Packer, happened in 1863.


http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/history/alfred_packer/index.html

Harsh winter conditions do terrible things to folks left in the cold for too long. Read some Colorado history about Alferd Packer, who ate his companions, and emerged from the cold with their wallets.

http://www.colorado.edu/umc/food/alferdPackerGrill.html
University of Colorado food court named the 'Alferd Packer Grill'.* Quite a menu

.
Kind of reminds me of the Donner party.
 
Ca-Sun said:
I watched the program, too, and found this on the web today. Very interesting for those who have seen the program. Gives a different perspective to it.

The most shameful act in the history of mountaineering: "Everest: Beyond the limit"

http://www.mounteverest.net/news.php?news=15288http://www.mounteverest.net/news.php?news=15288http://www.mounteverest.net/news.php?news=15288
I saw that article. I'm a bit skeptical of it - the writers seem to have an axe to grind, comparing the expedition leader to the Mafia (??), couching a lot of their accusations against him with "rumor has it..." and "allegedly...", which makes me suspicious as to their motives.

Heck, people were attacking the double amputee for not trying to rescue the dying man. He barely made it out as it was, they had to basically sled him down the mountain, and he was supposed to rescue somebody? Come on.
 
Ca-Sun said:
I watched the program, too, and found this on the web today. Very interesting for those who have seen the program. Gives a different perspective to it.

The most shameful act in the history of mountaineering: "Everest: Beyond the limit"

http://www.mounteverest.net/news.php?news=15288http://www.mounteverest.net/news.php?news=15288http://www.mounteverest.net/news.php?news=15288
Thats an extremely interesting site.........
I did see most of that program, and this really makes one wonder........
Although I remember seeing a ledge that they tip toe accross ......and wondering how you could bring someone injured thru that area.
 

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