GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #4

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Elainera said:
Going once more back to the question whether WH was in the car at the gas station - I vaguely remember in one of the press conferences, I think on Thu or Fri, it was said that the car had been both to D Park and L Mountain before getting gas at 9:14, means he killed her in Dodge Park then drove on to Larch Mountain and dumped her, and then - without Whitney - went to get gas, possibly because he thought he'd need to get rid of her things at various locations and needed more gas for that.

I might be wrong, but if someone has the time to dig through thread 2 or 3 and check?
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If there are gas receipts showing the car was there buying gas, then it is not too hard to believe that an attendant could be correct in identifying Whitney as being in the passenger seat. The gas receipt reports are muddled, confusing, and the # of stops unverified by LE (why two stops within a short time period for gas?--SUVs have large tanks); I'll go back and see what I can find.

Another question--did JH bring along a tool for the license plate removal as well? (Likely a wrench of some variety to remove the 2-4 heavy duty nut bolts that attach plates.) So, how much hardware did JH plan to have on him (besides the gun) when he asked her for a ride that morning? Those nut bolts get rusty and stiff over the years (and hers were on a 1999 Explorer in rainy climate) so it would be a stretch of the imagination to suppose that 2-4 of them simply fell off, causing the plate to fall off on that mountain. So the perp must have removed it. (Was it mentioned anywhere that they found prints on the plate?) But, if it mattered enough to plan and take the time to do that, then why take off only ONE of the two plates?? The car is still identifiable with the other one. (LE reported that "one of the two plates" was still on the car when found.) Even more boggling...why take that license plate off and leave it on the mountain if the perp took pains to distribute all the other bits of evidence miles away from the mountain where the body was hidden?

I hardly believe he had a tarp or anything tucked under his arm that would cover blood when transporting a bullet-riddled body. But even if he HAD brought something along (somehow inconspicuously) to wrap her body in, there are trace amounts of blood that would have showed up even if he'd given the car's interior a thorough washing with bleach. (Add clean-up to the timeline on the mountain, as well.) Even with a thorough clean-up, there are blood traces that will show up in a luminol search. There had to be blood with such a violent death (4-7 gunshots variously reported); so where was it? And why was that DNA not mentioned as being the DNA on his clothing or person that gave 'probable cause'? Where is the gun with fingerprints?

Agreed...this whole sequence is not adding up yet.


**One more note; I find it frightening (actually appalling, though I'm the last person you'd call a bleeding-heart liberal) that someone can be held for such a horrific crime for this long without yet having had at least a court-appointed attorney. Esp. since it's obvious LE has been talking with him. It is every bit as dangerous to the prosecution (mistrial possibilities) as to the defense.
 
Can any locals post a map showing where Roslyn Lake is in relation to Dodge Park, Whitney's apartment, Larch Mountain, and the gas station(s), Wal-Mart, Starbucks, the Cell phones,and other other relevant places I may have forgotten? I've only been to Portland, so I'd never heard of Gresham or these places before this case. Thanks!
 
Id like to know what he was saying in those interviews I wonder if they will ever be made public
 
Solariis said:
I don't know if that could be possible due to the fact that it takes over 40 minutes without any traffic to get from their apartment complex (Heatherwood Apartments) to his work (Canteen Vending Services). Considering she was leaving only 15 minutes before 7am when she was scheduled, this would have been impossible for her to do for him without letting her employer know she was going to be significantly late. She would've had to have called her employer before that 5 minutes later when JH supposedly pulled the gun on her.

Map from the apartments to his work:
http://goo.gl/maps/2C8mr
Click to expand...

IDK, maybe he just asked her to drop him off down the street for what ever reason. I don' think she felt threatened by him and she willingly gave him a ride for what ever reason.

He has confessed so much of his actions already why not just say he took her at gun point from the start instead of saying he pulled out a gun a short time into the ride?

He has confessed to so much why not just say "I forced her into the car"
 
I seen a comment and went to see what I could find saying Roslyn lake had been drained years ago. I found this new article.

http://www.oregonlive.com/environment/index.ssf/2008/05/residents_say_their_goodbyes_a.html

Catherine Trevison/The OregonianPools form on part of the lakebed Thursday, four days after PGE cut off Roslyn Lake's supply of water from the Sandy River.

On Monday, workers closed the gate at the head of a long, wooden flume leading from the Little Sandy River. Since then, the shallow, 160-acre lake has been flowing slowly through the turbines of the Bull Run Powerhouse, leaving baffled birds and trapped fish in pools across the muddy bottom.

Each evening, neighbors in the rural community have been gathering on a boat ramp where people once fed ducks, watching the water recede.

"People grew up around that lake, swimming in that lake," said neighbor Beth Willhite, who has lived in the area since 1995. "It's heartwrenching."

PGE decided about 10 years ago that new rules protecting migratory fish made it too expensive to keep running the small Bull Run Hydroelectric Project, which included dams on the Sandy and Little Sandy rivers. The dams diverted water to manmade Roslyn Lake, which stored it above the power-generating station on the Bull Run River.
 
I'm a little behind, sorry. In the confession it says "Mr. Holt disposed of his cellular phone at Roslyn Lake after the shooting." Why would he dispose of HIS phone? That doesn't make any sense to me, especially before disposing of HER phone. I believe he killed her but I don't think he is being honest in his recount of what really happened.

ETA: kind of like he was throwing out reason for why things were found where they were. If that makes sense.
 
As for the bloody evidence, I recall reading earlier in the thread, although unsubstantiated, that her Starbucks black apron, and a bloody shirt were found. Perhaps LE is keeping this info under wraps until closer to prosecution.
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I think I remember reading one article where it mentioned some of her clothing found (dumpster?), but not the mention that it was bloody. If it was, the blood evidence is not being mentioned for some reason. *More than her clothing would have been bloody, so I'm talking about any/all blood evidence not being mentioned.
 
LinasK said:
Can any locals post a map showing where Roslyn Lake is in relation to Dodge Park, Whitney's apartment, Larch Mountain, and the gas station(s), Wal-Mart, Starbucks, the Cell phones,and other other relevant places I may have forgotten? I've only been to Portland, so I'd never heard of Gresham or these places before this case. Thanks!
Click to expand...


Btw, Dodge Park is right by Roslyn Lake, only 2 miles north.

Link to Interactive Map:
http://goo.gl/maps/75hWU

mapycm.jpg


article-2221422-1594F5E7000005DC-644_634x416.jpg
 
Joe Friday said:
IDK, maybe he just asked her to drop him off down the street for what ever reason. I don' think she felt threatened by him and she willingly gave him a ride for what ever reason.

He has confessed so much of his actions already why not just say he took her at gun point from the start instead of saying he pulled out a gun a short time into the ride?

He has confessed to so much why not just say "I forced her into the car"
Click to expand...
Someone explained this earlier- it's like criminals having standards of their own like saying for example "I murdered her, but I didn't sexually assault her!"
 
PoirotryInMotion said:
**One more note; I find it frightening (actually appalling, though I'm the last person you'd call a bleeding-heart liberal) that someone can be held for such a horrific crime for this long without yet having had at least a court-appointed attorney. Esp. since it's obvious LE has been talking with him. It is every bit as dangerous to the prosecution (mistrial possibilities) as to the defense.
Click to expand...

ETA: I guess that he wouldn't have been required to be mirandized until he was questioned as a suspect. I'm guessing that applies to his first, maybe second, talk with the police. Unsure about the third. He could be unaware that he didn't have to speak to them each time they asked to speak to him... he could be unaware that he could have requested an attorney be present at those discussions.

Certainly he was mirandized when they arrested him.

I reckon he didn't ask for an attorney...

In Oregon, guilty pleas are not accepted during arraignment on felonies.

I really think that, for whatever reason, he regrets his decision (i.e. what he did to WH). IMO, I think we can expect he will make a deal.
 
PoirotryInMotion said:
If there are gas receipts showing the car was there buying gas, then it is not too hard to believe that an attendant could be correct in identifying Whitney as being in the passenger seat. The gas receipt reports are muddled, confusing, and the # of stops unverified by LE (why two stops within a short time period for gas?--SUVs have large tanks); I'll go back and see what I can find.

Another question--did JH bring along a tool for the license plate removal as well? (Likely a wrench of some variety to remove the 2-4 heavy duty nut bolts that attach plates.) So, how much hardware did JH plan to have on him (besides the gun) when he asked her for a ride that morning? Those nut bolts get rusty and stiff over the years (and hers were on a 1999 Explorer in rainy climate) so it would be a stretch of the imagination to suppose that 2-4 of them simply fell off, causing the plate to fall off on that mountain. So the perp must have removed it. (Was it mentioned anywhere that they found prints on the plate?) But, if it mattered enough to plan and take the time to do that, then why take off only ONE of the two plates?? The car is still identifiable with the other one. (LE reported that "one of the two plates" was still on the car when found.) Even more boggling...why take that license plate off and leave it on the mountain if the perp took pains to distribute all the other bits of evidence miles away from the mountain where the body was hidden?

I hardly believe he had a tarp or anything tucked under his arm that would cover blood when transporting a bullet-riddled body. But even if he HAD brought something along (somehow inconspicuously) to wrap her body in, there are trace amounts of blood that would have showed up even if he'd given the car's interior a thorough washing with bleach. (Add clean-up to the timeline on the mountain, as well.) Even with a thorough clean-up, there are blood traces that will show up in a luminol search. There had to be blood with such a violent death (4-7 gunshots variously reported); so where was it? And why was that DNA not mentioned as being the DNA on his clothing or person that gave 'probable cause'? Where is the gun with fingerprints?

Agreed...this whole sequence is not adding up yet.


**One more note; I find it frightening (actually appalling, though I'm the last person you'd call a bleeding-heart liberal) that someone can be held for such a horrific crime for this long without yet having had at least a court-appointed attorney. Esp. since it's obvious LE has been talking with him. It is every bit as dangerous to the prosecution (mistrial possibilities) as to the defense.
Click to expand...

A 99 Ford Explorer uses a plastic license plate holder that is attached to the front bumper similar to the one pictured below. The screws will not corrode. The entire license plate holder could have been removed by just stepping or jumping on it with your foot.

images


images
 
Quester said:
At the top of the probable cause document, there is a "Date & Time Crime(s) Occurred" noting 10/16, 8:40. Could this be the time LE believes the murder happened?

http://media.oregonlive.com/gresham_impact/other/holtpc.pdf

RIP sweet Whitney.
Click to expand...


Hope I am 'quoting right' - this is my first post but I have been watching this thread since the beginning. (I live in OR and heard about it early on Tuesday as a friend of mine is a customers of hers at Starbucks and posted on fb Tues eve that she was missing)

Good catch on the 8:40 - I think that helps with the timeline.

I have been under the assumption this whole time that she was killed at Dodge Park (Lake Roslyn is pretty much the same area) and then after deciding to move her body to L Mountain realized he needed more gas to make that happen... The gas station is on his way to L Mountain.

And as it has been stated that mats were moved and placed on top of the seats (seats were laid down) My old roommate had a late model Explorer and the back had a thick/large rubber mat that covered the whole back. When she would transport large items she would often lay the seats down and place this mat down over the seats. I am assuming this large mat was placed over WH body to cover her when transporting to L Mountain. This would have hidden her body from view from the gas attendant at 9:14.

Also - from photos her car appears to have dark tinted windows so even if the mat was not used to cover her it would be hard for an attendant to see in.

(Remember the 9;14 gas station sighting that LE confirms and that video confirms is NOT the same gas station that an attendant claims to have seen her in the seat - that one was a TA in Troutdale, not the Shell that the LE confirmed)

And - even if the vehicle was at that troutdale station as CH and family suggest - the gas attendant who was interviewd could be confused if he really did see a woman in the passenger seat.

I live in OR and quite honestly the gas attendants are so busy they hardly even look at ME, the driver, through my window - much less notice anything or anyone in my car. Often I roll down my window a tiny crack if it is raining - hand them my card - and never make any conversation (besides saying fill please) or make any eye contact.

So between tinted windows, a large mat, and inattentiveness by OR gas attendants this all seems totally plausible to me. SADLY!!!
 
rmarie3 said:
Hope I am 'quoting right' - this is my first post but I have been watching this thread since the beginning. (I live in OR and heard about it early on Tuesday as a friend of mine is a customers of hers at Starbucks and posted on fb Tues eve that she was missing)

Good catch on the 8:40 - I think that helps with the timeline.

I have been under the assumption this whole time that she was killed at Dodge Park (Lake Roslyn is pretty much the same area) and then after deciding to move her body to L Mountain realized he needed more gas to make that happen... The gas station is on his way to L Mountain.

And as it has been stated that mats were moved and placed on top of the seats (seats were laid down) My old roommate had a late model Explorer and the back had a thick/large rubber mat that covered the whole back. When she would transport large items she would often lay the seats down and place this mat down over the seats. I am assuming this large mat was placed over WH body to cover her when transporting to L Mountain. This would have hidden her body from view from the gas attendant at 9:14.

Also - from photos her car appears to have dark tinted windows so even if the mat was not used to cover her it would be hard for an attendant to see in.

(Remember the 9;14 gas station sighting that LE confirms and that video confirms is NOT the same gas station that an attendant claims to have seen her in the seat - that one was a TA in Troutdale, not the Shell that the LE confirmed)

And - even if the vehicle was at that troutdale station as CH and family suggest - the gas attendant who was interviewd could be confused if he really did see a woman in the passenger seat.

I live in OR and quite honestly the gas attendants are so busy they hardly even look at ME, the driver, through my window - much less notice anything or anyone in my car. Often I roll down my window a tiny crack if it is raining - hand them my card - and never make any conversation (besides saying fill please) or make any eye contact.

So between tinted windows, a large mat, and inattentiveness by OR gas attendants this all seems totally plausible to me. SADLY!!!
Click to expand...

ITA with that! I rarely make eye contact with gas attendants, nor them with me, because they usually just grab my card and run because there are always several other cars waiting.

:welcome5:
 
Joe Friday said:
I think he probably gave her the old "My battery is dead in my motorcycle, If I don't get to work I'm going to lose my job, can you give me a ride"


Her knowing he recently had troubles with the bike made it believable and she didn't consider him a treat at the time.

JMO
Click to expand...

I also thought this same thing. WH - being so caring and nice - believed him (especially knowing Clint had jumped his motorcycle earlier) and agreed to give him a ride. (My 30 year old self would probably believe this too!!!)

OR - I was also thinking... perhaps when his 'motorcycle needed a jump' 2 weeks ago he had asked Whitney for help/a ride. At that time she went at got Clint which foiled his plan. Maybe he had actually tried to kidnap her 2 weeks ago?
 
PoirotryInMotion said:
If there are gas receipts showing the car was there buying gas, then it is not too hard to believe that an attendant could be correct in identifying Whitney as being in the passenger seat. The gas receipt reports are muddled, confusing, and the # of stops unverified by LE (why two stops within a short time period for gas?--SUVs have large tanks); I'll go back and see what I can find.

Another question--did JH bring along a tool for the license plate removal as well? (Likely a wrench of some variety to remove the 2-4 heavy duty nut bolts that attach plates.) So, how much hardware did JH plan to have on him (besides the gun) when he asked her for a ride that morning? Those nut bolts get rusty and stiff over the years (and hers were on a 1999 Explorer in rainy climate) so it would be a stretch of the imagination to suppose that 2-4 of them simply fell off, causing the plate to fall off on that mountain. So the perp must have removed it. (Was it mentioned anywhere that they found prints on the plate?) But, if it mattered enough to plan and take the time to do that, then why take off only ONE of the two plates?? The car is still identifiable with the other one. (LE reported that "one of the two plates" was still on the car when found.) Even more boggling...why take that license plate off and leave it on the mountain if the perp took pains to distribute all the other bits of evidence miles away from the mountain where the body was hidden?

I hardly believe he had a tarp or anything tucked under his arm that would cover blood when transporting a bullet-riddled body. But even if he HAD brought something along (somehow inconspicuously) to wrap her body in, there are trace amounts of blood that would have showed up even if he'd given the car's interior a thorough washing with bleach. (Add clean-up to the timeline on the mountain, as well.) Even with a thorough clean-up, there are blood traces that will show up in a luminol search. There had to be blood with such a violent death (4-7 gunshots variously reported); so where was it? And why was that DNA not mentioned as being the DNA on his clothing or person that gave 'probable cause'? Where is the gun with fingerprints?

Agreed...this whole sequence is not adding up yet.


**One more note; I find it frightening (actually appalling, though I'm the last person you'd call a bleeding-heart liberal) that someone can be held for such a horrific crime for this long without yet having had at least a court-appointed attorney. Esp. since it's obvious LE has been talking with him. It is every bit as dangerous to the prosecution (mistrial possibilities) as to the defense.
Click to expand...

Someone had good point about Oregon being a state you can't pump your gas - he could have done it to save time. If you only ask for 5 dollars in gas, they aren't going to leave the pump in your car while the gas is going to help someone else, they will help you pump a small amount and check you out. I used to live in Oregon, at a busy gas station it could take a while to get gas.

The second point about why remove only one plate - I thought he removed the front plate and backed it into a space against bushes, probably in an effort to obscure the car enough to delay identifying it?

IMO, I really don't think he planned this out that well or gave the police much credit.
 
Am I the only one thinking that possibly he had a stroke of conscience (which is baffling considering the crime he committed) and scattered her belongings and evidence because he WANTED her to be easily found. But did so in a way that he didn't feel would point directly to him?
 
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