Oscar Pistorius - Sentencing - 6.13.2016

[Trooper]

Haven't heard anything yet that would oblige Masipa to exercise her discretionary powers ( the reasons for which would have to be compelling , overwhelming and unarguable ) to reduce the prison sentence for murder. ... not anything even close..

I know Barry is jacking it up, ratcheting it up to sonic boom in the sympathy stakes, but it has to be a whole lot more for the discretionary element of Masipa's finding to allow her the elbow room she requires to lower the amount , the mandatory amount below that which is set for every other murderer in South Africa , be he/she black , white, brown or brindle..

Or Masipa makes this her last appearance in any court in South Africa....

 

[LemonMousse]

yes she did, it was one of her errors that unfortunately carried over. It was another fly in the ointment on here for many a page last year.

Even scholtz said Day 1 of this trial , that in his first WSKoppies report he only found that OP was close to the GAD diagnosis/cut-off number.

Ah, right, thanks.

That's absolutely outrageous.

 

[sleuth-d-]

He murdered the wrong person

That is effectively Roux's argument.

This was always going to be Roux's closing as it is essentially the same arguments he used in the SCA

Of course the idea that the intent was "only" indirect does not stand up to much analysis

1. He intended to murder someone

2. Intruder not proven. Per Leach "he did not know the identity"

3. No fear.

So it boils down to an execution of the victim either way.

I don't see how it is exculpatory that he murdered the wrong person.

re: 3. fear... roux was very strong on including the op fear factor... 'he couldn't be fearful of his loved one, then who was he in fear of' - it must have been fear of an intruder angle.

 

[Tortoise]

From the Guardian:

During the break, reporters in court say Pistorius has changed his clothes, from a suit to a hoodie and shorts – possibly the defence is going to discuss his prostheses.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...ius-sentencing-live-day-three-reeva-steenkamp

That is just sickening if true. Hurry up and get this show off the road.

 

[cottonweaver]

Haven't heard anything yet that would oblige Masipa to exercise her discretionary powers ( the reasons for which would have to be compelling , overwhelming and unarguable ) to reduce the prison sentence for murder. ... not anything even close..

I know Barry is jacking it up, ratcheting it up to sonic boom in the sympathy stakes, but it has to be a whole lot more for the discretionary element of Masipa's finding to allow her the elbow room she requires to lower the amount , the mandatory amount below that which is set for every other murderer in South Africa , be he/she black , white, brown or brindle..

Or Masipa makes this her last appearance in any court in South Africa....

He hasn't subverted the SCA
But I still think she will allow mitigation for ruining his own life based on how far he has fallen, I am VERY sorry to say. Hope I'm wrong.

 

[LemonMousse]

Roux bringing up the timeline, screams, bat marks etc gives Nel scope to go through all of the evidence again showing a) the defence's deceit and b) how badly Masipa got her evaluation wrong. I hope, hope, hope that he does.

 

[Trotterly]

He murdered the wrong person

That is effectively Roux's argument.

This was always going to be Roux's closing as it is essentially the same arguments he used in the SCA

Of course the idea that the intent was "only" indirect does not stand up to much analysis

1. He intended to murder someone

2. Intruder not proven. Per Leach "he did not know the identity"

3. No fear.

So it boils down to an execution of the victim either way.

I don't see how it is exculpatory that he murdered the wrong person.

BIB He did not know the identity not that he did not think it was Reeva.

BIB Not so. SCA "He may have been anxious"

Leach also said when asked by Roux "Then why did he fire" said wtte "Because he was fearful"

 

[JudgeJudi]

How Roux can compare OP to Visagie is beyond me.

Visagie shot once.
When he got to the scene, his daughter was immediately taken to hospital.
He handed himself over to the local police station.

One only has to look at the crime scene in OP’s home to know this was not just a case of mistaken identity. It had all the hallmarks of a murder scene.

 

[cottonweaver]

John Ray (@johnrayitv)
June 15, 2016
#OscarPistorius Ditches suit for hoodie during court recess. But the familiar head in hands look is unchanged pic.twitter.com/MAEHmUXD7h

 

[sleuth-d-]

i hope that this time nel makes. it. very . clear. and simple. for masipa.

 

[sinth]

Does anyone know for sure what the minimum time before he will be eligible for parole is? I know I am putting the cart way before the horse but have read both 75% and 50% of the total sentence. It always seems to be the case with SA law and regulations that we get conflicting reports.

In this case for Oscar Pistorius it will be 50%.

There is provision in law that it must be 80% (or reduced to two-thirds if the sentencing court states so) if the murder meets certain requirements:
1) Planned or premeditated
2) Victim was a law enforcement officer or witness.
3) Rape and/or robbery was a factor
4) Organized crime was a factor
5) Victim was killed for organ extraction
6) Witchcraft was involved

My sources:

• Correctional Services Act 1998 §73 (6b)(v)
• Criminal Law Amendment Act, 1997, Schedule 2 (Section 51) Part I

 

[Really?]

Are we back ?

 

[Marfa Lights]

Having just made a cup of Yorkshire, my timing was perfect!

Well that has been tortuous, a little worrying, disenegenuous and a very clear example of why good lawyers earn so much money.

Although I don't think it should really bear on the crime = sentence equation, it is true that his life is forever changed, and all for the negative. If Masipa goes the soft sentence route that is some comfort. Anytime he i out in public there will be side looks and whispers but unlike the 'old days' few autograph requests.

Very much looking forward to how Nel approaches the aggravation side though, as much as I admire him, was disappointed overall in the State's case in this section. Yes Barry's testimony was very powerful and the nurse gave a good insight into the privileged prat's behaviour but as I said yesterday, would have liked to see more in the way of prison officials, a State psychologist etc. Anyone feel the same re this?

Yes, none of this sentencing hearing has been what I expected except for Barry Steenkamp's and Kim Martin's victim impact statements. I thought there would be insightful testimony from several expert witnesses on both sides that would assist the court in knowing what his mitigating and aggravating factors really are.

I am still dumbfounded that the defense would lead with the sweet but utterly inconsequential testimony of the young mother from Iceland. Shheeesh... that was a load of fluff.

Then the pastor.... that was useless, but gotta get God in there.

The psychologist could have been enlightening but he was just another Pistorius family shill taking direction from Roux. What would his recommend hospital treatment entail and how long would it be necessary and what was the expected outcome? What other treatment would he receive at another hospital that he could not receive in his hospital ward at Kgosi?

I would have thought the State would have had an opportunity to evaluate his mental state during incarceration since he was under their "care." It would have been helpful to have heard from a State Psychiatrist and not just Mashabane, the ward nurse.

Mashabane did provide some insight into how Oscar has accepted rehabilitation in prison but her somewhat rambling testimony lacked focus at times and was hard for me at least to follow. I wonder if she could have been prepared better to deliver more succinct testimony.

I would like to have heard more about his activities while under house at Uncle Arnie's. Were there any issues the State experienced with him during this time (other than the multiple malfunctioning location monitors).

A big disappointment in general.

 

[mrjitty]

Only difference = Masipa found it bordered DE. Yet SCA found it was DE

He is being quite misleading here

CH (Manslaughter) often does overlap with Murder and in NZ both traditionally can attract life sentences

So if you think about it as a Venn diagram, really bad cases of negligent killing can attract sentences similar to murder.

However Murder carries a far higher minimum tariff.

So the idea that his sentence should stay the same is misleading.

Indeed there are SCA cases where sentence was reduced from murder to CH and obviously the sentence came down as well

See for instance jubjub whose 20 year murder sentence was reduced to 8 for CH

 

[cottonweaver]

i hope that this time nel makes. it. very . clear. and simple. for masipa.

Yes sleuth, there is no excuse not to tailor it to her deficiencies & propensities this time.
He also knows everything off by heart now due to all the delays for justice. Nothing really new has been presented by Roux except some BS from Scholtz.

 

[Marfa Lights]

Are we back ?

Yep, refresh your screen.

 

[mrjitty]

In this case for Oscar Pistorius it will be 50%.

There is provision in law that it must be 80% (or reduced to two-thirds if the sentencing court states so) if the murder meets certain requirements, for example:
1) Planned or premeditated
2) Victim was a law enforcement officer or witness.
3) Rape and/or robbery was a factor
4) Organized crime was a factor

My sources:

• Correctional Services Act 1998 §73 (6b)(v)
• Criminal Law Amendment Act, 1997, Schedule 2 (Section 51) Part I

Please can we all book mark this post as this question has been answered so many times!

 

[mrjitty]

The psychologist could have been enlightening but he was just another Pistorius family shill taking direction from Roux. What would his recommend hospital treatment entail and how long would it be necessary and what was the expected outcome? What other treatment would he receive at another hospital that he could not receive in his hospital ward at Kgosi?

I would have thought the State would have had an opportunity to evaluate his mental state during incarceration since he was under their "care." It would have been helpful to have heard from a State Psychiatrist and not just Mashabane, the ward nurse.

The State cannot led their own psych expert as they have no access to the accused.

At best such an expert could critique the report.

 

[Trooper]

Oscar grizzling again.

 

[cottonweaver]

here's the "new" development BIB

Court resumes

Roux is continuing with his closing argument for the defence. He is reconfirming the findings from Scholtz’s report: anxiety, depression, post-traumatic stress disorder. He says the PTSD is because of the shooting.

Scholtz said Pistorius should be hospitalised, he reminds the judge.

But a psychiatrist is the leading and treating doc surely, in the "hierarchy,"( not a psychologist) so only Dr Bosch could have recommended that and he clearly didn't and didn't testify.