PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #16

[embufum]

Here are the stats on the airport: AirNav: 3PA6 - Fox Hollow Airport

On another note I know we talked about a good friend of Ray's having a FB friend from Belarus. Belarus is not too far from Slovenia and even closer to Ukraine. I'm sure that's just a coincidence most likely but it is kind of curious that this friend is no longer FB friends with him. Also, Ray has another good friend who makes mention that he thinks Ray left on his own accord. Don't want to name either of these guys here but it's not too hard to figure out who they are.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

On another note I know we talked about a good friend of Ray's having a FB friend from Belarus. Belarus is not too far from Slovenia and even closer to Ukraine. I'm sure that's just a coincidence most likely but it is kind of curious that this friend is no longer FB friends with him. Also, Ray has another good friend who makes mention that he thinks Ray left on his own accord. Don't want to name either of these guys here but it's not too hard to figure out who they are.

I'm not familiar with the Belarus friend.

One good friend who has publicly said that he thinks RFG walked away is Sloan.

 

[embufum]

I'm not familiar with the Belarus friend.

One good friend who has publicly said that he thinks RFG walked away is Sloan.

I wish I would have saved the name of the girl in Belarus. Sloan actually refers to Ray in a picture ny saying this was taken before Ray left.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I wish I would have saved the name of the girl in Belarus. Sloan actually refers to Ray in a picture ny saying this was taken before Ray left.

I have seen that. The photo was taken at a New Year's Eve party.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

A podcast with a lot of garbled information: The Disappearance Of Ray Gricar // 23 - Keystone State of Mind

 

[J. J. in Phila]

A bit of a Christmas gift. There is a podcast series in the works about Ray Gricar. It is likely to come out early in 2021.

 

[minazoe]

how much credence do you give to friends of Rays? obviously he is not a stupid man and I'm sure his friends are not silly men who believe in fairy tales.

what is it about ray that makes those close to him think he took a walk?

maybe the deep clues to ray are in his persona, something we have no access to.

think about it...think about a close friend you have, you know this person well enough..maybe you know some personal things about the person, naturally as you are friends...then your friend disappears off the face of the earth.

are you going to come out publicly and say you think that person staged their own disappearance?

something to think about..I know denial is a stage of grief but this claim that ray just took off is either based on something they know about ray from knowing him well? or i it just frivolous and beyond denial.

mOO

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Well, some of it could be wishful thinking. They don't want RFG to be dead, so they believe the scenario that he is alive.

Some of it is knowing that he liked to travel. At least at one point, Sloan thought he was in Europe visiting historic battle sites.

Some of it is the information that has come out. The lack of large assets, the interest in Mel Wiley and tie to 2020 Vision.

 

[Ozoner]

Well, some of it could be wishful thinking. They don't want RFG to be dead, so they believe the scenario that he is alive.

Some of it is knowing that he liked to travel. At least at one point, Sloan thought he was in Europe visiting historic battle sites.

Some of it is the information that has come out. The lack of large assets, the interest in Mel Wiley and tie to 2020 Vision.

I remain convinced that Mel Wiley staged a voluntary disappearance in order to cover up his suicide, which he may have committed far from home.

I think that Ray would have reached the same conclusion, so for me, the interest in Mel Wiley points to suicide. For whatever reason, he did not want his body to be found; perhaps he wanted his family members to believe whatever narrative they chose. The ones that couldn't handle the fact of his suicide would be free to believe that he walked away.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I remain convinced that Mel Wiley staged a voluntary disappearance in order to cover up his suicide, which he may have committed far from home.

I think that Ray would have reached the same conclusion, so for me, the interest in Mel Wiley points to suicide. For whatever reason, he did not want his body to be found; perhaps he wanted his family members to believe whatever narrative they chose. The ones that couldn't handle the fact of his suicide would be free to believe that he walked away.

it is possible, but the media was unanimous that Wiley left voluntarily. RFG could only rely on the media reports.

 

[skoogmagoo]

Well, some of it could be wishful thinking. They don't want RFG to be dead, so they believe the scenario that he is alive.

Some of it is knowing that he liked to travel. At least at one point, Sloan thought he was in Europe visiting historic battle sites.

Some of it is the information that has come out. The lack of large assets, the interest in Mel Wiley and tie to 2020 Vision.

Insisting that he walked away could be a way of deflecting suspicion.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Insisting that he walked away could be a way of deflecting suspicion.

It you mean Wiley, yes. RFG, however, could not have known that. He only knows what has been published.

 

[Ozoner]

it is possible, but the media was unanimous that Wiley left voluntarily. RFG could only rely on the media reports.

Everyone brings his or her own experience to media reports. Just because the media was pushing the walk-away scenario, that doesn't mean that Ray had to believe it. He was fully capable of assessing the facts of the case and reaching his own conclusion.

To be clear, I do think that Mel Wiley walked away voluntarily, but I don't believe he did it in order to start a new life. I believe that he did it with the intention of committing suicide far from home—possibly in San Francisco. The only other possibility is that he drowned himself deliberately and simply wasn't found. Mel's comment, "It's a one way trip, so I'm told," is clearly a thinly veiled reference to death.

 

[skoogmagoo]

I remain convinced that Mel Wiley staged a voluntary disappearance in order to cover up his suicide, which he may have committed far from home.

I think that Ray would have reached the same conclusion, so for me, the interest in Mel Wiley points to suicide. For whatever reason, he did not want his body to be found; perhaps he wanted his family members to believe whatever narrative they chose. The ones that couldn't handle the fact of his suicide would be free to believe that he walked away.

I watch a lot of " Unsolved Mysteries " and it seems that people who don't want their family members to think they committed suicide spend a lot of time setting up the "someone is after me" " I found out some things" " my life is in danger" etc before attempting to make their death look like murder.

 

[skoogmagoo]

It you mean Wiley, yes. RFG, however, could not have known that. He only knows what has been published.

No, I meant people who are saying Ray just walked away may have something to hide, like a body.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

No, I meant people who are saying Ray just walked away may have something to hide, like a body.

It is possible, but so are the people with a favorite suspect (who wasn't involved) or who insists it was suicide.

 

[skoogmagoo]

It is possible, but so are the people with a favorite suspect (who wasn't involved) or who insists it was suicide.

I don't understand how a suicide can hide their own body. They can only bury themselves partially, there will always be that one arm...

 

[Ozoner]

I don't understand how a suicide can hide their own body. They can only bury themselves partially, there will always be that one arm...

You're kidding, of course! But there are a number of ways a person could commit suicide without leaving a body that would be easily found:
1) A person could climb into a dumpster with a contractor garbage bag, climb into the bag, and then tie the bag shut from the inside. I am certain that this method has been employed often.
2) A person could find an abandoned well or mine shaft, an out-of-the-way manhole, or even a hollow tree and climb into it with a razor or a bottle of sleeping pills. The body might be discovered eventually but perhaps not for decades.
3) A person could find an abandoned house, fill a bathtub in the house with a strong solution of lye, and then climb into the tub. The body would likely dissolve before anyone entered the house.
4) A person could break into a funeral parlor at night, turn on the cremation chamber, and then climb in. If the undertaker discovered any bone fragments in the cremation chamber, he would probably assume that they were from the last corpse that he had cremated.
5) A person could find a mucky area of marshland and burrow into the muck. In a matter of hours the wet muck would ooze back into any holes or depressions created on the surface.
6) Pigs will eat anything. A person could strip naked and climb into a pen filled with large hogs, and he could be fairly assured of being eaten alive fairly quickly. This method would include some risk of not being completely devoured, though. (It doesn't apply in this case, but a person who lived near an alligator swamp could try the same basic approach.)
7) If a person knew that concrete footings for a large building were due to be poured on a particular day, he could climb into one of the holes for the footings, cover himself lightly with dirt in order to avoid being spotted by the workers, and wait for the cement to be poured.
8) A person could break into a steel mill and jump into a vat of molten steel; he would be incinerated almost immediately. It would have to be done when no workers were present. (Someone living in an area with active volcanoes could use a volcano instead of a vat of molten metal.)
9) A person could drown himself in a deep body of water while weighting himself down in such a way that his body wouldn't rise. Care would have to be taken to ensure that no body parts could break free and float to the surface. Climbing into a metal cage with weights might do the trick. The person could position the cage on a paddle board or on the gunwale of a motor boat, lock himself in with the weights, and then shift his own weight in such a way as to make the cage fall into the water.
10) It would be possible to dig a hole and position the soil in such a way that the hole would fill itself back in; the person could position the soil above the hole, perhaps using a board or tarp that could be pulled away from inside the hole. It might even be possible for the person to use explosives to fill in the hole after taking his place at the bottom of it.

These are just a few possible methods that I've thought of; some are more likely than others, of course. I'm sure there are many, many more methods—infinitely more methods—than what I've been able to think of.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

In fairness, many of these methods were not available in Lewisburg or the surrounding area.

 

[minazoe]

I have heard of hangings deep in the woods where one hangs themselves up high in the trees and is not discovered or is overlooked in searches. mOO