Place of Crime per Police REVISIT OLD THREAD

[tippytoes]

Legal question: Could casey actually be convicted of manslaughter and murder for the same incident or was that just LE covering their bases?

Manslaughter is the lesser included charge. If the jury feels there isn't enough evidence to convict on premeditated, they will likely have the option of the lesser included.

Rare cases (the nanny shaken baby in Boston a few years back) was an all or nothing strategy. Guilty of murder or nothing. That was a gutsy move on the part of her lawyer...(she was convicted and then it was overturned).

Jose may be hotdog enough to try something like this...although I don't know if the final decision lies with the defense.

 

[TigerBalm]

Why would they not have searched the house with the dogs? What made them search the backyard to begin with and if the back yard, why not the house?

I have not read nor heard any reports about luminol results. There must be some. Whether they "found" anything or not, a report was made. In fact a few people made reports. Like Annie D's statement, some things are not in documents that have been released.

They searched the back yard after they received a tip from the neighbor that Casey borrowed his shovel.

I have heard about luminol here on the forum.

 

[faefrost]

They have some evidence that at least a portion of the crime occured at or is directly related to that address. The dogs hit in the backyard.

 

[Sammiejam]

I agree with the A's didn't know at 1st. After the 911 calls they did know.

But with the killing that night, that's incorrect. GA saw KC & Caylee the 16th when KC was leaving for her imaginary job at 12:50.

I dont believe GA did see them. Apparently they stayed in the bedroom until nearly one o'clock in the afternoon? Made no noise and just stayed in the room, didnt go to the bathroom, have breakfast or anything. That makes no sense to me. I do not believe it.

CA said she could hear them breathing in the morning through a closed door and that is how she knows they were in there. Yeahhhh right CA.

I don't know what happened but I do not believe that version of events. JMHO of course

 

[Mysteeri]

My great Aunt said the same thing. She is convinced that ALL of them know exactly what happened and it happened when CA & KC were fighting then set this up to cover them all thinking KC would not be prosecuted if they made a kidnapping case out of it, but it backfired on them and now they are all trying to get her out of it. (how is that for a run on sentence?)

I don`t find that very credible. When people think the A`s are covering up for Casey, it`s mostly because they claim she`s alive and changed their opinion about the decomp smell. Now why would Cindy say "smells like da*n dead body" in the 9/11 call and George talk about the decomp smell to the police? Their behavior in the beginning doesn`t seem planned to me.

 

[Ripley007]

I dont believe GA did see them. Apparently they stayed in the bedroom until nearly one o'clock in the afternoon? Made no noise and just stayed in the room, didnt go to the bathroom, have breakfast or anything. That makes no sense to me. I do not believe it.

CA said she could hear them breathing in the morning through a closed door and that is how she knows they were in there. Yeahhhh right CA.

I don't know what happened but I do not believe that version of events. JMHO of course

Something that bothers me is the fact that this day was significant enough to GA that he can describe what Caylee was wearing as she left the house. But notice how he makes no comment such as "I was watching my fav Food Net show and 10 minutes before it was over, Casey and Caylee were leaving the house. Caylee ran up to me and gave me hug and kiss goodbye and I said "I love you"...thank god I got to say I love you before she dissappeared." Notice he says nothing of the sort. Isn't a "last goodbye" or "last I Love You" and important event when someone suddenly looses a loved one? Or how about the guilty reverse comment such as "I didn't even get to hug and kiss Caylee goodbye that day."

 

[allure]

Something that bothers me is the fact that this day was significant enough to GA that he can describe what Caylee was wearing as she left the house. But notice how he makes no comment such as "I was watching my fav Food Net show and 10 minutes before it was over, Casey and Caylee were leaving the house. Caylee ran up to me and gave me hug and kiss goodbye and I said "I love you"...thank god I got to say I love you before she dissappeared." Notice he says nothing of the sort. Isn't a "last goodbye" or "last I Love You" and important event when someone suddenly looses a loved one? Or how about the guilty reverse comment such as "I didn't even get to hug and kiss Caylee goodbye that day."

Another thing I noticed was in one of the numerous doc dumps out there (I'll have to find a link, unless someone can help) George, in one of his interviews, said that he was usually the one to feed Caylee her breakfast, they would walk to the mailbox together, etc. I got the feeling that the "morning time" was their time together. If this is true, then why would George only see the girls at 10 to 1 that day? You know the baby was hungry/thirsty hours before that. Very strange... I just don't think either Casey or Caylee was at home after that fight on the 15th... maybe at Lee's house... I don't know yet.

 

[TxLady2]

I'm not sure but I think the address is listed because that was the address that OCSO responded to with the 911 calls. Can't be positive about that, but I don't think they can put down a location of an incident unless they have positive proof that it did occur there, such as the body. Since the body's whereabouts is unknown... they must have positive proof that she died on the premises, or whatever happened to her that caused her death, happened there... and it would have to be more than the cadaver dogs hitting on the backyard, IMO.
I really don't believe that any of Casey's family could have witnessed Caylee's death and stayed quiet about it all this time. If her death did happen at their house.... say, a drowning.... I believe the Anthonys were not home at the time. I know they are a little "out there" but that is just too..... bizarre.

 

[tiredofthis]

I agree with the A's didn't know at 1st. After the 911 calls they did know.

But with the killing that night, that's incorrect. GA saw KC & Caylee the 16th when KC was leaving for her imaginary job at 12:50.

Are we certain that GA saw KC and Caylee on the 16th? I'm still sure if I believe this.

 

[Sammiejam]

Another thing I noticed was in one of the numerous doc dumps out there (I'll have to find a link, unless someone can help) George, in one of his interviews, said that he was usually the one to feed Caylee her breakfast, they would walk to the mailbox together, etc. I got the feeling that the "morning time" was their time together. If this is true, then why would George only see the girls at 10 to 1 that day? You know the baby was hungry/thirsty hours before that. Very strange... I just don't think either Casey or Caylee was at home after that fight on the 15th... maybe at Lee's house... I don't know yet.

ITA. So we are to believe Caylee didnt even say one word to him? She just stood there silently while KC told him that she wasnt coming back with Caylee for a day and a night? I dont buy it. NOT. ONE. BIT.

It also goes to what a load of crap the Zani story was. I dont know any kids who wouldnt say "Im going to kindy/the playground/Zani's house. Bye Grandad."

 

[TxLady2]

Manslaughter is the lesser included charge. If the jury feels there isn't enough evidence to convict on premeditated, they will likely have the option of the lesser included.

Rare cases (the nanny shaken baby in Boston a few years back) was an all or nothing strategy. Guilty of murder or nothing. That was a gutsy move on the part of her lawyer...(she was convicted and then it was overturned).

Jose may be hotdog enough to try something like this...although I don't know if the final decision lies with the defense.

The defense lawyer does not determine which degree of murder anyone is charged with, that is up to the DA.
And it is not law enforcement that decides on the charges, either. Once she is charged, LE has nothing more to say about it. HER attorney can ask for a plea deal, but the DA can turn it down.
In many cases, lesser charges are offered to a jury, and in many instances, they will convict on lesser charges rather than Murder One, because the evidence does not support the higher charge.

 

[woodforest]

I might be crazy, but someone in LE needs to look under that pool in the A's backyard...I know it seems impossible, but I get chills when I see it.

 

[athy]

they might be using that address because its the last known and verified place caylee was seen alive or known to be.

 

[tippytoes]

The defense lawyer does not determine which degree of murder anyone is charged with, that is up to the DA.
And it is not law enforcement that decides on the charges, either. Once she is charged, LE has nothing more to say about it. HER attorney can ask for a plea deal, but the DA can turn it down.
In many cases, lesser charges are offered to a jury, and in many instances, they will convict on lesser charges rather than Murder One, because the evidence does not support the higher charge.

Thanks! I wasn't sure about Florida law, but the Woodward case I referenced, it was certainly the defense who opted for the all-or-nothing strategy. (I thought I was losing my mind so I googled it)

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache...+or+nothing&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us&ie=UTF-8 CNN

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache...+or+nothing&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&ie=UTF-8 BBC

Maybe Massachusetts is different?

 

[DesSands]

I might be crazy, but someone in LE needs to look under that pool in the A's backyard...I know it seems impossible, but I get chills when I see it.

I'm with ya on that one !! I wrote that in another thread at least 2 weeks ago. The ground around and underneath the pool is usually soft. All she would have to do is use the shovel to tunnel a hole from the edge and under. Also the new slab the A's put down on July 4th? Another place as she herself said My gut tells me SHE IS CLOSE. !!

Now back to this exact topic. She chloroformed and then put her in the pool to stage a drowning, she even may have BEEN DYING at that point. Now you would have shallow breathing if she hasn't expired yet, OR SHE WAS ALREADY DEAD and it was too late to have her gulp water and thus she knew the drowning idea wouldn't fly.
Don't forget she is the daughter of a nurse and hom detective, also a real CSI buff. She knew if there was no water found in the lungs that would not fly. Also accounts for the indent in the side of pool, probably leaned in with her knee. It is pretty hard to reach over and pull dead weight UP and OUT, especially if you are short and your arms aren't too long. I know cause I'm petite and short. lol The shovel may have been used for that purpose. Really threw a wrench into her original plan. So therefore she had no other ideas planned, never expected to be caught, thus the lies and making up stories to LE as she went along.

Second thoughts here, it bothers the heck outta me when she says to CA from her jail cell call, "you don't know what my involvement is? " Then CA says KC and she sarcastically snips back, "Mom." She also makes mention to Lee, Mom would know. Not in that context, but it was A speak if u know what I mean.

 

[cocoamom]

sounds to me that le think KC killed Caylee at the house, put her in back yard and then moved her imo between 6-16 and 7-16 at unknown time

This post gets my vote!

15th fight, kills Caylee. Comes home and puts body in playhouse or sandbox during the night while GA and CA sleeping - they will never look there in the next day or so. She can get in by the side gate, know where the latch is, etc.

 

[cocoamom]

Are we certain that GA saw KC and Caylee on the 16th? I'm still sure if I believe this.

So many of their dates are "off" by a week. The 16th minus a week = 9th! Maybe THAT is the day he saw them. I don't think any of this family have gotten a single date right! Took CA forever in the 911 call to give Caylee's birthdate even...

 

[cocoamom]

I'm with ya on that one !! I wrote that in another thread at least 2 weeks ago. The ground around and underneath the pool is usually soft. All she would have to do is use the shovel to tunnel a hole from the edge and under. Also the new slab the A's put down on July 4th? Another place as she herself said My gut tells me SHE IS CLOSE. !!

Now back to this exact topic. She chloroformed and then put her in the pool to stage a drowning, she even may have BEEN DYING at that point. Now you would have shallow breathing if she hasn't expired yet, OR SHE WAS ALREADY DEAD and it was too late to have her gulp water and thus she knew the drowning idea wouldn't fly.
Don't forget she is the daughter of a nurse and hom detective, also a real CSI buff. She knew if there was no water found in the lungs that would not fly. Also accounts for the indent in the side of pool, probably leaned in with her knee. It is pretty hard to reach over and pull dead weight UP and OUT, especially if you are short and your arms aren't too long. I know cause I'm petite and short. lol The shovel may have been used for that purpose. Really threw a wrench into her original plan. So therefore she had no other ideas planned, never expected to be caught, thus the lies and making up stories to LE as she went along.

Second thoughts here, it bothers the heck outta me when she says to CA from her jail cell call, "you don't know what my involvement is? " Then CA says KC and she sarcastically snips back, "Mom." She also makes mention to Lee, Mom would know. Not in that context, but it was A speak if u know what I mean.

I believe it was "pavers" they put down, not pouring a slab. Pavers are loose bricks put down on a smoothed and compacted surface (usually dirt) and sand is worked between the cracks to stabilize the bricks.

 

[DesSands]

I believe it was "pavers" they put down, not pouring a slab. Pavers are loose bricks put down on a smoothed and compacted surface (usually dirt) and sand is worked between the cracks to stabilize the bricks.

Thanks Cocoamom, I couldn't remember what they were called. Still bothers me, smoothed over and compacted surface, usually dirt = grave possibly?

 

[tiredofthis]

This post gets my vote!

15th fight, kills Caylee. Comes home and puts body in playhouse or sandbox during the night while GA and CA sleeping - they will never look there in the next day or so. She can get in by the side gate, know where the latch is, etc.

I agree with the 15th being the time of death as well.