Pope's speech ignites worldwide controversy/ Islam insulted

[Karole28]

The Qur’an is not a sword or a gun. It is a book of ideology. In such a case performing jihad with the Qur’an would mean an ideological struggle to conquer peoples’ hearts and minds through Islam’s superior philosophy.

Yeah, relax folks. They just want to struggle with the Pope.


"Another militant group in Iraq, Ansar al-Sunnah, also vowed to fight Christians in retaliation.

"You will only see our swords until you go back to God's true faith Islam," it said in a separate Internet statement."

Pops

 

[Karole28]

Here you can find pics and a first hand account of a "protest/threat" march in front of Westminister Abbey in London.

Jesus is the slave of Allah

I'm sure the condemnation from Muslims world-wide regarding this behavior is only minutes from release.

 

[BarnGoddess]

Wind Over Vocal Chords

I have posted a few links and folks seem to ignore the evidence that there are good muslims. One can read and educate oneself or stay in ignorance.

Ok, I got it. They can speak out on the internet, but not get together and hold a press conference. Perhaps they are afraid that showing a face with their sentiments might get them beheaded. Is that why they don't speak out? They're afraid for their lives?

 

[Karole28]

Wind Over Vocal Chords

Ok, I got it. They can speak out on the internet, but not get together and hold a press conference. Perhaps they are afraid that showing a face with their sentiments might get them beheaded. Is that why they don't speak out? They're afraid for their lives?

I'm sure in many cases, this is true. What does this REALLY say about the people perpetrating these acts and their religion?

Honor killings, honor rapes, jihad, dhimmi vs the chosen ones, burkhas, walls separating sexes in worship, fatwas, et-freakin-cetera.

 

[BarnGoddess]

Yeah, relax folks. They just want to struggle with the Pope.


"Another militant group in Iraq, Ansar al-Sunnah, also vowed to fight Christians in retaliation.

"You will only see our swords until you go back to God's true faith Islam," it said in a separate Internet statement."

Pops

Thanks for the links. Those pictures certainly said it all.

 

[windovervocalcords]

Wind Over Vocal Chords

Ok, I got it. They can speak out on the internet, but not get together and hold a press conference. Perhaps they are afraid that showing a face with their sentiments might get them beheaded. Is that why they don't speak out? They're afraid for their lives?

BG

Posters make absolute statements of "truth" that Muslims are violent and ignore the peaceful ones.

Any evidence of peaceful interpretations of Islam is met with derision and demands.

At the same time we ignore the violence in our own society.

 

[Karole28]

BG

Posters make absolute statements of "truth" that Muslims are violent and ignore the peaceful ones.

Any evidence of peaceful interpretations of Islam is met with derision and demands.

At the same time we ignore the violence in our own society.

Apparently you're the only person posting who doesn't truly believe that all Muslims are not waging holy war. It's patently obvious that none of us are talking about all Muslims. There is no need for you to keep pointing it out, unless you're trying to convince yourself?

As far as peaceful interpretations of Islam being met with derision, I'm sure you're not referring to non-Muslim responses, are you?

 

[southcitymom]

....Their angry and violent voices may only be a "fraction" of the Muslim groups, as you so imply; however, I don't see the then "majority" of Muslims demanding that their people stop their violence, or punishing them, or exiling them! Other Muslims could make a difference, if they are so "good" and in the "majority". But no, they are scared of their own people or they must agree for they never do anything to make these violent responses STOP happening.....

The highlighted part of this quote indicates that good Muslims could stop the behavior of violent Muslims, but - because they are afraid - they choose not too.

How can we expect good Muslims to stop the violent behavior of bad Muslims? No one in the history of mankind has yet been able to figure out how to stop people from killing other people in the name of Allah/God/_________(insert diety here). If you know someone who has figured out a way to stop violent responses from occurring among factions of humanity, please tell me so I can write their name in on the next presidential ballot.

Of course, devout Muslims speak out against this violence every day. Links to what some of these groups are saying have already been provided. Also, if any of you, like me, have Muslim friends in your life, you know that they are deeply saddened by terroristic behavior done in the name of what is most holy to them.

 

[southcitymom]

Apparently you're the only person posting who doesn't truly believe that all Muslims are not waging holy war. It's patently obvious that none of us are talking about all Muslims. There is no need for you to keep pointing it out, unless you're trying to convince yourself?

As far as peaceful interpretations of Islam being met with derision, I'm sure you're not referring to non-Muslim responses, are you?

Apparently you and I are not reading the same thread, because it's patently obvious that a number of posters are talking about all Muslims...one went so far as to opine that they don't worship a god but a devil.

 

[BarnGoddess]

BG

Posters make absolute statements of "truth" that Muslims are violent and ignore the peaceful ones.

Any evidence of peaceful interpretations of Islam is met with derision and demands.

At the same time we ignore the violence in our own society.

Not at all! Giving internet references to peaceful Muslims writing on the internet is not getting up and speaking out to show the world that these extremist fanatics are in the vast minority. On the other hand, words quoted from the 14th century incite the murder of a nun, multiple church burnings and violent words on posters vowing revenge. I still say that until this "vast majority" of peaceful Muslims take a stand against terrorism and jihadism, then the words of the "minority" are the only ones that stick in our minds.

We do not ignore crime and violence in our country. It's reported every day. Criminals are hunted down and prosecuted. Our jails are full to overflowing. Why this website alone is full of crime news, trying to locate missing people, and hopefully seeking to make a change by encouraging our lawmakes to establish laws against violence and exploitation of innocent children.

Islam allows honor killings of women, a man in the US committing such an act is called a murderer.

 

[southcitymom]

...a man in the US committing such an act is called a murderer.

Except if you're a washed-up football star/actor!

 

[Dark Knight]

Thanks for your post, windover.

You are absolutely correct in pointing out that the Judeo/Christian/Islamic traditions are closely related from an historical (and a spiritual) basis and, in many instances, inextricably intertwined!

The common denominator in all 3 is Abraham, iirc.

 

[Karole28]

Apparently you and I are not reading the same thread, because it's patently obvious that a number of posters are talking about all Muslims...one went so far as to opine that they don't worship a god but a devil.

Unless someone denotes a group using the term "all ____" why would you assume it to be true?

I haven't a clue as to which post you're referring to suggesting that Muslims worship a devil, but seriously, unless they're threatening to draw a cartoon of it :silenced: unbunch your undies.

I think the Muslim community is using up all of our patience with their weekly "outraged" barometer warnings.

I was pondering this morning, if they successfully "off" the Pope, will it be 1 or perhaps as much as 2 hours before the first article is written on the effect it's had on the local Muslim community and how the Mosque patrols will be increased.

In the US after 9-11, everyone was talking about the backlash against Muslims around the country. Some even had mean looks thrown their way!

One guy in NY actually overheard a firefighter telling customers not to buy street food from his vending cart because he was middle eastern.


An innocent nun was shot in the back 4 times - for belonging to the same religion as a man who quoted old text.

I'm bringing this up to highlight the Islamofacist apologists who equate burning a religious icon (the Pope) to our own religious kooks here in the states. (try illustrating Mohammed) There are no comparisons to be made.

 

[southcitymom]

The common denominator in all 3 is Abraham, iirc.

I should have known a good Catholic would know that!

 

[southcitymom]

LOL:laugh:

I haven't a clue as to which post you're referring to suggesting that Muslims worship a devil, but seriously, unless they're threatening to draw a cartoon of it :silenced: unbunch your undies.

 

[windovervocalcords]

The point I make is this.

If you posit that Muslims are "by nature of their religious teachings" violent, then you set the stage for allowing them to be wiped off the planet.

This is a POV that leads to genocide. IMO. It is what allows people to consider pre-eminent war.

Some folks say the Pope speaks "the Truth" by using that obscure quote that Muslims are more violent then other people.

It may not even be what the Pope means. And it is certainly not true that followers of Islam are more violent human beings then any other human beings.

Folks can't seem to distinguish between terrorists and Muslims and Arabs making them all equivalent.

This is faulty reasoning IMO.
[font=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Responding to Hate Speech: A Citizen's Guide[/font]

[font=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]American Muslims should be on the alert for two kinds of hate speech. The first is directed against Muslims, the second is spoken by Muslims.[/font]

[font=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]In American society, especially after September 11, there is an undercurrent of anti-Muslim sentiment. Without being paranoid, we should be prepared to respond to anti-Muslim rhetoric when we encounter it. [/font]
http://www.aicongress.org/hate.html

The Pope attempted to use an academic argument to dismiss the notion that Islam is a peaceful religion. This aspect of his attack on the faith has been under-reported. It is also a major tactical problem for those of us concerned with reducing Islamic terror. Not only is it false, it supports the arguments of radical Muslim extremists who make similar arguments to support the notion that it is permissible to kill civilians in a holy war.

The Pope's "apology" was no such thing. Although he claimed that the emperor's words were not his own, he alternate explanation for his use of them made no sense. More importantly, he did not withdraw his challenge to the notion of Islam as a peaceful religion. His apology essentially said, reading between the lines, that "Muslims believe in God, but I don't retract my statement that their religion is one of hate."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rj-eskow/spiritual-*advertiser censored*-islam_b_29663.html

 

[Karole28]

The point I make is this.

If you posit that Muslims are "by nature of their religious teachings" violent, then you set the stage for allowing them to be wiped off the planet.

This is a POV that leads to genocide. IMO. It is what allows people to consider pre-eminent war.

What leads to genocide is the thought that one race/religion/creed can dominate and force conversion to their 'cause', or ya know, be "wiped off the face of the earth" (not my quote, look to Iran). Which is what we're hearing from a certain religious group right now.

Is this coming from the Methodists? The Baptists? The Catholics? The Episcopalians? The Branch Davidians? Hmm...

Some folks say the Pope speaks "the Truth" by using that obscure quote that Muslims are more violent then other people.

It's an obscure quote coming from the same dark ages that some Muslim leaders want to drag us back into.

It may not even be what the Pope means. And it is certainly not true that followers of Islam are more violent human beings then any other human beings.

Ok, disclaimer, this does not by any stretch apply to all followers of Islam.
==========

How can you say this with a straight face? Are you even saying it with a straight face?

Is it true that all 9/11 bombers were Muslim? Is it true that the Sudanese are being killed by the hundreds daily under the guise of Islam? Isn't it also true that there are Imams right now in various countries sending young girls to death for daring to be the victims of rape??? I could go on and on and on with this. I won't bore you with messy details.

Folks can't seem to distinguish between terrorists and Muslims and Arabs making them all equivalent.

Some folks are waiting for the Muslims to divorce themselves from this, to let us know who and how to distinguish them from the angry faces, gunshots, burning Popes on sticks and death threats we're currently seeing.

 

[southcitymom]

Here is a terrific link to just some of the many Islamic statements against terrorism and violence that have been made publically over the last few years:

http://www.unc.edu/%7Ekurzman/terror.htm

Just a taste:

Shaykh Yusuf Qaradawi, Qatar; Tariq Bishri, Egypt; Muhammad S. Awwa, Egypt; Fahmi Huwaydi, Egypt; Haytham Khayyat, Syria; Shaykh Taha Jabir al-Alwani, U.S.:
“All Muslims ought to be united against all those who terrorize the innocents, and those who permit the killing of non-combatants without a justifiable reason. Islam has declared the spilling of blood and the destruction of property as absolute prohibitions until the Day of Judgment. ... [It is] necessary to apprehend the true perpetrators of these crimes, as well as those who aid and abet them through incitement, financing or other support. They must be brought to justice in an impartial court of law and [punished] appropriately. ... [It is] a duty of Muslims to participate in this effort with all possible means.”
[size=-2]Statement of September 27, 2001. The Washington Post, October 11, 2001, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A40545-2001Oct10.html[/size]
Full text of this fatwa in English and Arabic.

 

[Karole28]

Here is a terrific link to just some of the many Islamic statements against terrorism and violence that have been made publically over the last few years:

http://www.unc.edu/%7Ekurzman/terror.htm

Just a taste:

Shaykh Yusuf Qaradawi, Qatar; Tariq Bishri, Egypt; Muhammad S. Awwa, Egypt; Fahmi Huwaydi, Egypt; Haytham Khayyat, Syria; Shaykh Taha Jabir al-Alwani, U.S.:
“All Muslims ought to be united against all those who terrorize the innocents, and those who permit the killing of non-combatants without a justifiable reason. Islam has declared the spilling of blood and the destruction of property as absolute prohibitions until the Day of Judgment. ... [It is] necessary to apprehend the true perpetrators of these crimes, as well as those who aid and abet them through incitement, financing or other support. They must be brought to justice in an impartial court of law and [punished] appropriately. ... [It is] a duty of Muslims to participate in this effort with all possible means.”
[size=-2]Statement of September 27, 2001. The Washington Post, October 11, 2001, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A40545-2001Oct10.html[/size]
Full text of this fatwa in English and Arabic.

I totally appreciate these people (especially the Egyptians) putting themselves in possible harm's way to denounce this. But, until it starts happening in greater numbers and world-wide, it's just a tumbleweed in a hurricane.

They have got to start a movement and get their religion back.

 

[southcitymom]

Some folks are waiting for the Muslims to divorce themselves from this, to let us know who and how to distinguish them from the angry faces, gunshots, burning Popes on sticks and death threats we're currently seeing.

Fortunately, you won't have to wait long. I posted a link to many statements by Muslim leaders decrying the actions of the terrorists - these people have been divorcing themselves from the terrorists actions all along. Please read them if you are interested in knowing who is on the otherside of what the nightly news shows you.

Good doesn't sell the news. Evil does. The networks are going to give you burning Popes on a stick every time. But that never tells the entire story.