Pope's speech ignites worldwide controversy/ Islam insulted

[Details]

Ok....but Bali isnt Australia..thats where I got confused.

We aren't terrorists, and don't indiscriminately kill children and the innocent to make a point is where I got confused.

 

[windovervocalcords]

"There are different ways in which people can offend Islam. We have seen the recent aggression against the people of Lebanon and the ongoing aggression against the suffering people of Palestine. We saw the Danish cartoons. We see on our television screens every day a false image of Islam. We see many Muslims discriminated against because of what they believe. All of these are offenses against Islam, but our response is different to each of them.

We need to keep in our minds all the time that Islam is a mercy to mankind. It is the world's religion of peace, which has existed since the beginning of time itself. In Islam, the world can find happiness and fulfillment.

So our response to people who attack Islam and Muslims should always bear this in mind. We don't want our response to give others a chance to see Islam as anything other than peaceful and merciful. Whenever we respond to people who offend our religion, we need to use it as a chance for calling them to Islam and away from ignorance.

Islam is strong and Muslims do not need the approval of anyone for what they believe. We must not forget, though, that Almighty Allah is in control of all things. It is He Who will punish the wrongdoers and it is He Who will restore the rights of those who have had their rights taken away. We mustn't feel the need to do the job of Almighty Allah.

There are some Muslims who see no other way out of the circle of injustice in which they find themselves than to resort to violence. But we are not Allah. It is not for you or me to decide who shall take up arms against oppression.

Many of those who attack Islam have never met a Muslim and they know very little about Islam. It is our duty as Muslims to show the world what Islam is really like, that it is so beautiful and so very sweet and that it offers a threat to no one.

We, as Muslims, just need to keep our cool and let others see what Islam is really like. By praying the five daily prayers and by reading the Qur'an and living good lives, we will be able, in sha' Allah, to present the real image of Islam to the world."
http://www.islamonline.net/english/index.shtml

 

[angelwngs]

I echo your sentiments!!

I am siding with the Pope on this one. I've had about enough of the terrorism and holy wars. That's what started all this crap eons ago!
Man of the "holy wars" occur: in the middle east. They originated there years and years ago. Where Jesus began.
It was all about one God versus another.
I am quite sure that the God I believe in doesn't condone tying a bomb to oneself and blowing up innocent people on the street.

AMEN! :angel:

I wonder when the world will listen to Julianne's signature quote here at WS:

"If you are not outraged, you are not paying attention."

As a society we human beings have become too complaisant. It is time that we voiced our opinions. There is power in unity. Outrage does does not have to lead to violence. To seek Peace in the name of a Higher Power by using guns, bombs and other terroristic tactics is the most convoluted logic imaginable. Power to the Pope for having the courage to speak up for his convictions! :clap:

 

[windovervocalcords]

The Free Muslims Coalition is a nonprofit organization made up of American Muslims and Arabs of all backgrounds who feel that religious violence and terrorism have not been fully rejected by the Muslim community in the post 9-11 era.

The Free Muslims encourages Muslims and Arabs to be proud of their faith and at the same time critical. The community of the faithful must now take steps to bring Islam into the 21st century. As the Free Muslims?s founder recently said, "The only way that we as a people can make a profound difference and improve the quality of life for all Muslims is if all of us make a difference individually."
http://www.freemuslims.org/about/

Ed Bradley: Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it the responsibility... Does not Islam, does not Allah require that Muslims police their own religion and rid themselves of extremists?​

​

Hamza Yusuf: Yes, absolutely. It's an obligation for Muslims to root them out. And I think it is a jihad now for the Muslims in the Muslim country to rid themselves of this element.​

CBS's 60 Minutes, September 30, 2001

"Who has the greatest duty to stop violence committed by Muslims against innocent non-Muslims in the name of Islam? The answer, obviously, is Muslims."​

Ingrid Mattson, Vice President, Islamic Society of North America

http://www.islamfortoday.com/terrorism.htm​

​

“There has been a collective decision at the level of the Muslim communities of America to become a part of the solution in the post 9/11 conflict as opposed to a part of the problem,” said Ahmed Younis, national director of the Muslim Public Affairs Council. He supported the imam’s view that mosques can ensure community integrity remains intact, that they are not manipulated “to engage in acts of extremism or acts of terrorism.”​

He said the discourse begins among Muslims themselves, with amplification of Islam’s message against terrorism and extremism, and financial accountability to congregations and transparency about where and how charitable funds are being spent.
http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/display.html?p=washfile-english&y=2006&m=September&x=20060918154620mlenuhret3.443545e-02


"Today, Islam has become synonymous, in the minds of many Westerners, with violence.

It is therefore the moment for American Muslims to infuse Islam with a moderate spirit that will make it an effective counterforce to radical Islam. American Muslims must utilize our intellect and talent to support America in the war on Islamic terrorism. In addition, we can use these same powers to help restore vitality to Islam worldwide, improving its response to the social, economic and political demands of a global society.

Since the Iranian revolution, radicalism had spread in Islam. But with the defeat of extremism, Islam may enhance human freedom and human dignity. This is the religious community we American Muslims must create for ourselves and for our children, and for the security of our neighbors, in the common combat against tyranny and for the expansion of freedom."
http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/homeland.php?id=274333

 

[Dark Knight]

Ok....but Bali isnt Australia..thats where I got confused.

I know that now, I was confused as in my mind the bombings were considered an attack on Australia, for some odd reason. :waitasec:

I know the Aussie embassy was bombed a couple years later in Indonesia, too, due to your support of the Iraq war, iirc.

 

[dingo]

We did loose a lot of Aussies in the Bali bombings...so I suppose it could be considered an attack on Australia...just not on our soil.

 

[southcitymom]

AMEN! :angel:

I wonder when the world will listen to Julianne's signature quote here at WS:

"If you are not outraged, you are not paying attention."

As a society we human beings have become too complaisant. It is time that we voiced our opinions. There is power in unity. Outrage does does not have to lead to violence. To seek Peace in the name of a Higher Power by using guns, bombs and other terroristic tactics is the most convoluted logic imaginable. Power to the Pope for having the courage to speak up for his convictions! :clap:

I am not outraged at the world I pay very close attention to. More often than not, I am deeply heartened by its progress. And I have no problem voicing my opinion about that.

 

[windovervocalcords]

I am not outraged at the world I pay very close attention to. More often than not, I am deeply heartened by its progress. And I have no problem voicing my opinion about that.

And if angelwings were to check with Julianne as to why she used that particular signature I venture to say that it would not be because Julianne thinks Muslims are violent by nature.

The Pope may have had positive intentions. However, he might have instead challenged his own congregations to maintain peaceful relations with Muslims, and to see them kindly as no different from Christians. Some good, some needing help, some bad.

He might have instead said we will show you our open hearts and minds and invite you to do the same.

Teach us about the ways Muslims and Christians share common goals. Help us to help you so that we may all live in peace.

 

[southcitymom]

And if angelwings were to check with Julianne as to why she used that particular signature I venture to say that it would not be because Julianne thinks Muslims should be wiped off the face of the earth.

Chances are!

 

[BarnGoddess]

"There are different ways in which people can offend Islam. We have seen the recent aggression against the people of Lebanon and the ongoing aggression against the suffering people of Palestine. We saw the Danish cartoons. We see on our television screens every day a false image of Islam. We see many Muslims discriminated against because of what they believe. All of these are offenses against Islam, but our response is different to each of them.

We need to keep in our minds all the time that Islam is a mercy to mankind. It is the world's religion of peace, which has existed since the beginning of time itself. In Islam, the world can find happiness and fulfillment.

So our response to people who attack Islam and Muslims should always bear this in mind. We don't want our response to give others a chance to see Islam as anything other than peaceful and merciful. Whenever we respond to people who offend our religion, we need to use it as a chance for calling them to Islam and away from ignorance.

Islam is strong and Muslims do not need the approval of anyone for what they believe. We must not forget, though, that Almighty Allah is in control of all things. It is He Who will punish the wrongdoers and it is He Who will restore the rights of those who have had their rights taken away. We mustn't feel the need to do the job of Almighty Allah.

There are some Muslims who see no other way out of the circle of injustice in which they find themselves than to resort to violence. But we are not Allah. It is not for you or me to decide who shall take up arms against oppression.

Many of those who attack Islam have never met a Muslim and they know very little about Islam. It is our duty as Muslims to show the world what Islam is really like, that it is so beautiful and so very sweet and that it offers a threat to no one.

We, as Muslims, just need to keep our cool and let others see what Islam is really like. By praying the five daily prayers and by reading the Qur'an and living good lives, we will be able, in sha' Allah, to present the real image of Islam to the world."
http://www.islamonline.net/english/index.shtml

Excuse me, but I see this as a veiled threat. Read very carefully:

There are some Muslims who see no other way out of the circle of injustice in which they find themselves than to resort to violence. But we are not Allah. It is not for you or me to decide who shall take up arms against oppression.

I am interpreting this by reading between the lines. "Hey, I may not attack you, but if some of my fellow Muslims, feel the urge, then who am I to condemn them?"

 

[windovervocalcords]

Excuse me, but I see this as a veiled threat. Read very carefully:



I am interpreting this by reading between the lines. "Hey, I may not attack you, but if some of my fellow Muslims, feel the urge, then who am I to condemn them?"

Just because you see it as a veiled threat, (which I do not) does not mean it is one. Does not mean the author intended anything other than to urge Muslims to respond peacefully to criticism when it occurs.

It is essentially quite kind and worth a read in its entirety.

But if you intend to hold a harsh view of all Muslims, even the ones who are trying to influence their brothers to be peaceful, no matter what they say, then it is your choice.

I don't see it leading to peace, that's all. Peace starts in one's own heart.

 

[windovervocalcords]

Shaykh Abdoulaye Dieye was a candidate for the presidency in Senegal, a member of the Parliament, deputy mayor of his hometown in Saint Louis, and spiritual leader of a branch of the Muridiyyah Sufi Order. He touched the hearts of many people in Santa Barbara and around the world where he gave lectures or workshops on many topics, including spiritual politics, global peace, Sufi healing, interfaith dialogue, African teaching stories and comparative religion. He emphasized the oneness of God’s message, while recognizing the many messengers from all the authentic traditions. Though he was a devout Muslim, people of different faiths, including rabbis, considered him their teacher.

Shaykh Abdoulaye Dieye’s exemplars were all of the divinely sent Messengers and saints of all religions. His closest companion in spirit, though, was Shaykh Ahmadou Bamba. It was perhaps one of Shaykh Dieye’s greatest desires was for more people to learn of Shaykh Ahmadou Bamba’s cultural and spiritual legacy and the significance his universal message and nonviolent struggle has for attaining peace in the world today.

Shaykh Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Habiballah, more popularly known as Shaykh Ahmadou Bamba.was a Muslim saint who led a successful and completely nonviolent struggle for peace within the last century. His life of teaching, amidst 33 years of imprisonment, exile and house arrest, was spent in western Africa, but his profound message is global and continues today in the vibrant tradition he transmitted. His form of nonviolent resistance against the French colonial oppression was based on spiritual tenets and the rich intellectual heritage of his forebears.

In 2003, professors Allen F. Roberts and Mary Nooter Roberts, of the University of California Los Angeles (UCLA), were able to showcase the sacred writings and arts from Senegal, Africa, by those inspired by Shaykh Ahmadou Bamba, through the UCLA Fowler Museum of Cultural History. The exhibition was called A Saint in the City: Sufi Arts of Urban Senegal.

http://www.intlpeace.org/mp-dieye.htm

Christian and Muslim Peacemaking Teams work together:
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/12/01/1525256

To encourage peace in the Muslim world after September 11, Abu Nimer recommends that the US pursue a three-pronged strategy: (1) criticize Arab regimes that repress their people and violate human rights, (2) provide significant direct support for civil rights groups and non-governmental organizations in the region, and (3) provide investment in economic development.
Not surprisingly, Abu Nimer challenges the US to look at its own foreign policy. “We need to look at those regimes and ask why they prevent elections, why they prevent protest, why they prevent freedom of expression of opinion, why they close the newspapers why they put anyone who criticizes them under house arrest. And the final analysis for us in the US as American residents is why our government supports these regimes.”
According to Abu Nimer, civil rights groups and non-governmental organizations in the Middle East come under four broad concerns – rights for women and children, the need for democratization, protection of human rights, and an emerging peace and conflict resolution category.
Alternatives to Al Quaeda, Hamas, and Hizbollah can be found in the Middle East Network for Democracy (MEND) which is a network of over 40 organizations dedicated to promoting democracy in the Middle East and North Africa, the Egyptian Organization for Human Rights whose campaigns include a Campaign Against Torture, a Campaign Against Female Genital Mutilation, and a Campaign for the Defense of Freedom of Thought and Belief, and the Lebanese Foundation for Permanent Civil Peace, to name just a few. It is nurturing this alternative vision that is alive, but hardly thriving, that should inspire American foreign policy in the region.
One of the fathers of this alternative vision is Chaiwat Satha-Anand. Abu Nimer’s Framework for Peace in Islam makes extensive use of Satha-Anand’s art
http://colorado.indymedia.org/newswire/display/1877/index.phpcle

 

[windovervocalcords]

A lot has been said and written about Tom Fox these days - how exceptional he was, how he is the example of peacemaking for our time. Tom, as I have known him, would be the first to deny it. He was not exceptional; he was an ordinary man - setting out vegetables on grocery racks, playing the clarinet for a livelihood, walking on the rooftop in Iraq for exercise, proudly telling about his children's accomplishments.

What is exceptional is that he listened to God. When Jesus said, "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' But I say to you, Do not resist an evildoer," Tom listened. When Jesus said, "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you," Tom took him seriously.

Who is going to accompany the 42 Palestinian children Tom walked with to the Jordanian border? Who is going to walk with the Muslim Peacemaker Team as they follow their own faith's call to be peacemakers? Who is willing to live through mortars falling on their roof and ask, "If this was happening in my hometown in America, how would folks respond?"
http://www.cpt.org/memorial/tomfox/ordinaryman.htm

 

[BarnGoddess]

Just because you see it as a veiled threat, (which I do not) does not mean it is one. Does not mean the author intended anything other than to urge Muslims to respond peacefully to criticism when it occurs.

It is essentially quite kind and worth a read in its entirety.

But if you intend to hold a harsh view of all Muslims, even the ones who are trying to influence their brothers to be peaceful, no matter what they say, then it is your choice.

I don't see it leading to peace, that's all. Peace starts in one's own heart.

Wind, until I see a mass of Muslim leaders, world wide, stand up in mass, as a united front, urging an end to the violent retaliations for an "infidel's" "free speech", I don't any Muslim not to turn on me.

 

[southcitymom]

Just because you see it as a veiled threat, (which I do not) does not mean it is one. Does not mean the author intended anything other than to urge Muslims to respond peacefully to criticism when it occurs.

It is essentially quite kind and worth a read in its entirety.

But if you intend to hold a harsh view of all Muslims, even the ones who are trying to influence their brothers to be peaceful, no matter what they say, then it is your choice.

I don't see it leading to peace, that's all. Peace starts in one's own heart.

What I see and experience usually begins with what I want to see and experience. In my life, my outer world tends to reflect my inner world.

Thanks for the link.

 

[windovervocalcords]

Wind, until I see a mass of Muslim leaders, world wide, stand up in mass, as a united front, urging an end to the violent retaliations for an "infidel's" "free speech", I don't any Muslim not to turn on me.

Until it occurs to us that we are ALL alike. We ALL want to be happy, we will have no idea how to create peace in the world.

Tom Fox understood this. He joined hand in hand with Muslim Peacemakers. He lived and died fearlessly and with integrity.

He was no Pope or President. He was an ordinary man. He had a change of heart. He is a source of inspiration.

 

[southcitymom]

Until it occurs to us that we are ALL alike. We ALL want to be happy, we will have no idea how to create peace in the world.

Truer words have never been written.

 

[windovervocalcords]

Truer words have never been written.

The Team

Nine men and women – Christians, Jews and Muslims from Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Israel, the Palestinian Authority, the former Soviet Union and the USA – came together in mind, body and spirit to cross the Sahara desert and the territories of five different countries and cultures.

"At this time, the government of Iran knows no greater enemy than Israel... and it doesn't make much sense to me when I look in the eyes of a fellow human being. I just see another person and wonder to myself, how would this world look if we all simply agreed to disagree and just looked at each other and fellow planet mates as equal children of God."
http://www.breaking-the-ice.de/index.php

 

[Karole28]

Until it occurs to us that we are ALL alike. We ALL want to be happy, we will have no idea how to create peace in the world.

Tom Fox understood this. He joined hand in hand with Muslim Peacemakers. He lived and died fearlessly and with integrity.

He was no Pope or President. He was an ordinary man. He had a change of heart. He is a source of inspiration.

ok, I call BS.

It's wonderful that you're happy and want to believe that we're ALL alike. Really. Very lovely. Sweet, even.


Until you can convince the people who are trying like hell to blow us all to kingdom come over the "outrage dujour" to believe the same way, I say enjoy your fantasy while the rest of us call this what it is. The pope is offering himself up to martyrdom in Turkey and when/if that happens, things will be completely out in the open. You won't be able to deny it any longer.

I keep hearing people equating the islamofacists with extreme Christians. Somehow you find comfort in believing that we're all alike and we all have the same "extremists" to deal with.
To this I say, would you rather be a Muslim living in backwater Arkansas, or a Christian living in Saudi Arabia?

 

[windovervocalcords]

ok, I call BS.

It's wonderful that you're happy and want to believe that we're ALL alike. Really. Very lovely. Sweet, even.


Until you can convince the people who are trying like hell to blow us all to kingdom come over the "outrage dujour" to believe the same way, I say enjoy your fantasy while the rest of us call this what it is. The pope is offering himself up to martyrdom in Turkey and when/if that happens, things will be completely out in the open. You won't be able to deny it any longer.

I keep hearing people equating the islamofacists with extreme Christians. Somehow you find comfort in believing that we're all alike and we all have the same "extremists" to deal with.
To this I say, would you rather be a Muslim living in backwater Arkansas, or a Christian living in Saudi Arabia?

It is not a fantasy that we are all alike. It is the truth.

We are all alike in that we all want to be happy and no living being wants to suffer.

I am happy to debate this with you.