I will take whatever John Ray told us with a pinch of salt
Possible Victim: Shannan Gilbert #2
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I will take whatever John Ray told us with a pinch of salt
Fabra
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Care to elaborate, marsyao?
I happen to believe John Ray is one of the only beacons of hope in this whole sordid mess, but am curious about differing opinions, as well.
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Fabra
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True, but is that such a bad thing?
Most attorneys would have walked by now. I'd settle for a little unorthodoxy if he's committed to propelling things forward.
JMO, of course.
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I am not saying this is a bad thing, just take whatever he told us with a pinch of salt
Please stop already with speculation on how Alex was. You make it as if he was an innocent bystander, in shannon's life. Speculating on him being depressed has no relevance. It seems you lost sight of the real victim. Her boyfriend was a , a criminal not a decent citizen of society. No decent man let's a woman sell her body for a living while he sits home playing xbox. Call a spade a spade!!
When did I ever say Alex was a decent citizen of society ? My only point is that Alex had nothing to do with how Shannon became a sex worker (She was working in this industry long before she met Alex) and the decision Shannon made to say in this industry, if you don't agree with me, it is totally fine
Her boyfriend isn't too relevant to finding the killer. As long as LE has been working on this case, if he were involved they would have arrested him years ago. He's likely not involved. The problem seems to be that, whomever it was, naming them as a suspect or arresting them may pose problems for others.
I wouldn’t bother getting into this argument. Some people are determined to paint SG in the worst possible life and blame everything on her so you won’t get anywhere. It’s disappointing because I thought this was supposed to be a victim positive website. Alex punching her so badly she needed a titanium plate in her jaw is an accepted fact and has been corroborated by Alex, Shannan’s family and LE so anyone insinuating she lied is way off base.
This isn’t a black or white situation that he’s involved with her murder or an angel. There is plenty of gray area in between. He was a domestic abuser who sat at home doing nothing while Shannan had to prostitute herself to support them. He didn’t even drive her to keep her safe.
Alex was the first one who reported her missing to the police, and was the first person who went door to door for the information of her disappearance, and he joined her family for the searching and many other events.
Changing the subject. I listened to the Lisk podcast. I think it was Robert Kolker who said he though the bodies of the GB4 had been kept elsewhere and all moved to Gilgo Beach together.
Also listened to the interview with Maureen’s sister Missy (who is an absolutely phenomenal woman). She said she believed LISK had stalked his victims before killing then which was why he’d been able to step in when Maureen was robbed.
Pure speculation, but it does make me wonder if Shannan was being stalked that night and her stalker saw her running out on drugs and intercepted her. It would be too much of a coincidence that the bodies were already there, but if he wanted them found he may have moved the GB4 with the intent of them being found when police activity began, probably also to distance himself if he was keeping the bodies somewhere else that was more easily linked to him.
Pure speculation and probably too far fetched, but it did make me think of where the stalking fitted and if it applied to Shannan too.
Also listened to the interview with Maureen’s sister Missy (who is an absolutely phenomenal woman). She said she believed LISK had stalked his victims before killing then which was why he’d been able to step in when Maureen was robbed.
Pure speculation, but it does make me wonder if Shannan was being stalked that night and her stalker saw her running out on drugs and intercepted her. It would be too much of a coincidence that the bodies were already there, but if he wanted them found he may have moved the GB4 with the intent of them being found when police activity began, probably also to distance himself if he was keeping the bodies somewhere else that was more easily linked to him.
Pure speculation and probably too far fetched, but it did make me think of where the stalking fitted and if it applied to Shannan too.
Another possibility is that that was the original dumping spot, and these four bodies were put there one by one, anyway the fact that two of the GB4 were murdered after Shannon's disappearance makes me believe that the LISK did not live in Gilgo Beach area, he was familiar with this area, but not live nearby at this time, otherwise he would have known things were rather hot and there was many searches going on in this area after Shannon's disappearance, and would not dump his victims in this area
It's not that I don't agree with some of the things you're saying, but I find it hard to understand the statement of Alex loving her. Besides the abuse that was documented and cavalier attitude of being ok with Shannon escorting, it's hard to call that love. Shannon was surrounded by leeches and parasites that only had use for her, when she would provide some kind of monetary assistance. The poor girl didn't stand a chance in life and never had anyone looking out for her best intrest. An you're right Alex didn't have a part in shannon becoming a sex worker, but he sure as hell had a part in her continuing as a sex worker. Especially being the fact she was the breadwinner and he just sat home not working...
Blueeyedbrowngirl
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I might not have agreed with that before listening to the podcast but now, after hearing all episodes, I think there could be some merit to that theory/opinion.
Amber Costello disappeared in early September and her remains were found 3 months later in December. Dave Schaller (Amber’s friend/roommate) said in the podcast that he identified Amber’s remains by a small tattoo on her arm. Now, this begs the question: what state of decomposition were her remains in when she was found?
September in New York is pleasant; warm and not usually hot by day, and cooler and breezy by night, especially in a coastal area. If Amber was killed when she disappeared and was left on Ocean Parkway immediately afterward, then weeks and months of constant exposure to the daily heat, sun, and other elements would have produced an advanced state of decomposition by the time she was found in December. However, if her remains were kept in a freezer/refrigerated environment for several months before they were left on the parkway, then she would’ve been well preserved when found. There’s also the possibility that she was held captive for a few months and killed mere days before she was found.
I don't think Alex had a say about how Shannon made her living, Shannon was a strong will girl, she made her own decision to continue escorting because she needed money, she did try a waitress job, but quit soon after because that job bring far less income.
What Can I say, she cannot choose her family, no one doubt Mari loved her daughter, I admire and respect her effort to search for Shannon and keep Shannon's case in the public spotlight, but still
To be fair to the Alex, he was never Shannon's pimp, he was just one of these drivers working for the escort agency Shannon used to work for, and he earned good money, I recalled he told Robert Kolker the good life Shannon and him was living, both of them brought home good money, they had their own place, dinning out, watching movie, shopping in the mall etc. only in the last 8-9 months, after World Class Party Girls was shut down by law, Alex sank into a depression and sat home doing nothing, and this caused many fight between him and Shannon, end up with he broke Shannon's jaw
I don't know, but according to Robert Kolker's "lost girls", "four sets of bones in all. Each was a full skeleton, kept whole and shrouded in burlap", and Law had to exclude Shannon by finding no metal disc, so I would say there was an advanced state of decomposition by the time by the time they were found
Blueeyedbrowngirl
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My point is this: how could Dave Schaller identify Amber by her tattoo if only her skeletal remains were found? Did he say something the public wasn’t supposed to know?
I think her body was in an advanced state of decomposition, but still there were some skin and flesh left on her body, her body was wrapped tightly in burlap, that may help preserve her body from element to a certain degree
I think you could be onto something with the public not supposed to be knowing. As many people have stated their opinion before I also think Amber's remains could have had the best chance of obtaining any kind of DNA. I also always wondered how fast Amber was killed because from where she got picked up and disposed of, is not that far of a car ride. Did he think to himself I have the perfect victim in close quarters of my dumping ground? I always wondered if she was killed right away or held and dumped at a later date. I wonder if Dave and most of us agreeing she must of been some what comfortable with this individual to leave her phone. So if she knew or googled something on this individual, is it possible LE looked through all her web searches via phone, computer, tablet etc. If the assumption that he must of been someone prominent or some kind of importance to the community, Amber could of easily looked him up and probably would of seen for herself. This is why the offer of five times the rate wasn't unbelievable to her. Still she would of had to have met him before, probably a part of the grooming process.. To many questions and what ifs.
I don't know whether Amber was kept alive for some time before be murdered, but it was possible, especially in Melissa Barthélemy's case, it was very likely she was kept alive for a while, because the killer knew some very detail information of her family
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