President Obama commutes sentence of Chelsea Manning

[RANCH]

IMO Manning caused severe damage to America because people in other countries will not wish to covertly help us because the fear that it will be made public.

 

[human]

IMO Manning caused severe damage to America because people in other countries will not wish to covertly help us because the fear that it will be made public.

There was the bizaare Iran Contra affair

https://www.brown.edu/Research/Understanding_the_Iran_Contra_Affair/h-on-gallery.php

 

[K_Z]

I come from a military background.
What price is treason? Your post mentioned that President Obama assuring that it is understood that Manning broke the law and paid a harsh price. How is the price harsh if Manning does not complete the full sentence?
Also, an abominable abuse of her civil rights? Well... if Treason was not committed then Manning wouldn't be in ANY prison. Manning caused Manning's issues of being in prison.
I respect your opinion. In that same principle, I respectfully disagree. No, Obama did not do the right thing, in my opinion. What kind of precedence does this example show for future traitors?

IMOO.

BBM. Indeed. What price is treason?

In a just world, Bradley/ Chelsea Manning, after having the just sentence that was imposed after due process, and then commuted by an outgoing demagogue, would have U.S. citizenship stripped, and be expelled permanently from U.S. soil and installations. Manning would be countryless, unless another country wanted to offer citizenship.

That would be justice for the crimes Manning committed, after having his sentence commuted by Obama. For the oaths and promises broken, for the trust betrayed. For the massive damage done.

The punishment does not fit the crimes, IMO. Manning should not remain on U.S. soil. I wish there was a quick way to revoke his citizenship and expel him. Let him start over somewhere else, on their dime, since he hates the U.S. so much. I'm sure he'd be much happier somewhere else. Anywhere but the U.S. The U.S. should have a right to be rid of Manning permanently, IMO.

Manning is a traitor, not a martyr, or a "whistleblower".

 

[Sherlockknows]

To be honest over the years American Troops have been involved in sex crimes abroad, and torture. The country refuses to accept the International Court of human rights and the International Criminal Court, where rape may equal ten years. They are sent back to America where the sentences are much less. This person isn't serving a sentence for a crime against another person but a breaking of a contract. I'd be more worried about the troops in Europe and the signal it's sending the rest of the world, and A 2012 Pentagon survey found that approximately 26,000 women and men were sexually assaulted. Of those, only 3,374 cases were reported. A bigger problem....


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[Elley Mae]

There was the bizaare Iran Contra affair

https://www.brown.edu/Research/Understanding_the_Iran_Contra_Affair/h-on-gallery.php

There was the bizarre atf gun walking scandal which was first time o used executive privilege.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal

 

[Elley Mae]

To be honest over the years American Troops have been involved in sex crimes abroad, and torture. The country refuses to accept the International Court of human rights and the International Criminal Court, where rape may equal ten years. They are sent back to America where the sentences are much less. This person isn't serving a sentence for a crime against another person but a breaking of a contract. I'd be more worried about the troops in Europe and the signal it's sending the rest of the world, and A 2012 Pentagon survey found that approximately 26,000 women and men were sexually assaulted. Of those, only 3,374 cases were reported. A bigger problem....


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bbm I wonder where this # came from, I don't like words like that.

 

[Elley Mae]

The defense named 48 people it wanted to appear on Manning's behalf. The list was believed to include President Barack Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. Clinton had said that the diplomatic cables published by WikiLeaks "did not represent significant consequences to foreign policy."[30] Obama was named because of an April 2011 statement[31][32][33][34][35] that Manning "broke the law":[36]

The defense requests the presence of [redacted] in order to discuss the issue of Unlawful Command Influence (UCI). Under Rule for Courts-Martial 405(e), the defense is entitled to explore the issue of UCI. Under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), a superior officer in the chain of command is prohibited from saying or doing anything that could influence any decision by a subordinate in how to handle a military justice matter.

Obama's statement was later echoed by the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Martin Dempsey, who said "We're a nation of laws. He did violate the law."[37]

bbm



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Manning#cite_note-36


With closing arguments concluded, Col. Lind began her deliberations. Manning chose to have her court-martial heard by the judge only instead of a jury.


On July 30, 2013, Judge Lind issued her findings regarding the charges. Manning was acquitted of aiding the enemy by knowingly giving out intelligence through indirect means, and was convicted of 19 of the 21 or 22 specified charges, including theft and six counts of espionage.[12][13][14] The hearing on sentencing began on July 31, 2013.[59] Manning initially faced a maximum sentence of as much as 136 years' imprisonment.[10][11][60][61] This was subsequently reduced to 90 years after the defense successfully filed a motion to merge some of the 20 counts that Manning was being charged with on the grounds that they overlapped.[62]

 

[Tawny]

<modsnip>

bbm I wonder where this # came from, I don't like words like that.

Off topic but: Those numbers are likely highly accurate. In my military experience, sexual violence (from harassment to flat out rape) was rampant. It has gotten better since, but it's still highly prevalent. The culture in the military is to cover up the incident. In my case, the course of action was to "protect" me by... putting ME on restriction. Not the male soldiers who assaulted me. Just me.

Sexual assault in the armed forces is a gigantic problem.

 

[CoolJ]

Its astounding to me how a person can be both a traitor and a patriot at the same time. It really says a lot about the state of the nation IMO.
Is treason still treason when it is against a corrupt government?

 

[La Louve]

I don't have personal feelings on this person, as a person. But I did find it odd, seems no one had heard that the person was trans, and chose the day they knew they would be going to a male military prison to disclose. Fine with me, but it would seem to make the sentence a little harder, IMO.
I put in the he/she just in case this was a ruse on their part, not to disparage them.
All MOO only

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...97ab3b3c677_story.html?utm_term=.1e045362dac7

In April 2010, while serving as an Army intelligence analyst in Baghdad, Manning sent an e-mail to Master Sgt. Paul Adkins, a superior, with the subject line, “My problem.” The e-mail described struggles with a gender-identity disorder. In a photo attached to the e-mail, Manning is wearing a blond wig and makeup.“I have had signs of it for a very long time. It’s caused problems within my family,” Manning wrote in the e-mail, which, along with the photo, was submitted as evidence.

“I thought enlisting in the military would get rid of it. .&#8201;.&#8201;. I’ve been trying very, very hard to get rid of it. It’s haunting me more and more as I get older. Now the consequences are getting harder.”

Adkins said he did not inform his superiors about the e-mail until after Manning was arrested.

 

[Tulessa]

Denied! :tears:

https://www.democracynow.org/2017/1/18/breaking_leonard_peltier_denied_clemency_by

 

[Sherlockknows]

bbm I wonder where this # came from, I don't like words like that.

Approximately might mean there were about 26,000 opinions processed with more to come in. In opinions I mean anonymous statements or maybe doctors stating so many cases with no personal information given. I am sure others went to state hospitals. Imagine being afraid to say you were raped by a colleague? And why?

For most Military people what Manning dud was wrong, and Snowden, but to be honest the technology was not being used solely for defence purposes and if any claims of industrial espionage comes out it will be bigger then these two.


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[Elley Mae]

Chelsea Manning to lose transgender benefits with dishonorable discharge

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...der-benefits-dishonorable-discharge/96742180/

“If Pvt. Manning is discharged with a dishonorable discharge, she will lose her entitlement to (military) benefits, including gender-transition care at (military) medical treatment facilities,” Smith said.



Manning to reportedly lose transgender benefits with dishonorable discharge

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/01/1...der-benefits-with-dishonorable-discharge.html



Chelsea Manning to lose military health benefits upon release, Army says

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jan/19/chelsea-manning-lose-military-health-benefits-upon/

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Its astounding to me how a person can be both a traitor and a patriot at the same time. It really says a lot about the state of the nation IMO.
Is treason still treason when it is against a corrupt government?

BBM
All governments are corrupt.

JM (cynical) O

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[K_Z]

Commuting the sentence of Chelsea Manning, one of the great traitors of our time, is finger-in-the-eye willfulness. Obama took 28 years off the sentence of a soldier who stole and then released through WikiLeaks almost half a million military reports, plus another quarter-million State Department documents.

Even the word “leaker” is misleading. Leak makes it sound like a piece of information a whistleblower gives Woodward and Bernstein to expose misdeeds in high office. This was nothing of the sort. It was the indiscriminate dumping of a mountain of national security secrets certain to bring harm to American troops, allies and interests.

Obama considered Manning’s 35-year sentence excessive. On the contrary. It was lenient. Manning could have been — and in previous ages, might well have been — hanged for such treason. Now she walks after seven years.

What makes this commutation so spectacularly in-your-face is its hypocrisy. Here is a President who spent weeks banging the drums over the harm inflicted by WikiLeaks with its release of stolen materials and emails during the election campaign. He demanded a report immediately. He imposed sanctions on Russia. He preened about the sanctity of the American political process.

Over what? What exactly was released? A campaign chairman’s private emails and Democratic National Committee chatter, i.e. campaign gossip, backbiting, indiscretions and cynicism. The usual stuff, embarrassing but not dangerous. No national security secrets, no classified material, no exposure of anyone to harm, just to ridicule and opprobrium.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/obama-revealing-final-acts-article-1.2950771

BBM for emphasis

 

[DexterMorgan]

Was Manny at first a whistle blower whom was ignored by the powers that be?

Or did he just leak things without trying to notify any higher rank personnel?

 

[DexterMorgan]

BBM
All governments are corrupt.

JM (cynical) O

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Agree to the fullest

 

[Elley Mae]

Was Manny at first a whistle blower whom was ignored by the powers that be? Not that I have read. Well if you consider the nyt and the wash post as a platform for whistle blowing, but they didn't seem to be interested.

Or did he just leak things without trying to notify any higher rank personnel?

Yes, From what I read.



My answers in orange


Manning said her first contact with WikiLeaks took place in January 2010, when she began to interact with them on IRC and Jabber. She had first noticed them toward the end of November 2009, when they posted 570,000 pager messages from the September 11 attacks.[55]


Manning contacted The Washington Post and The New York Times to ask if they were interested in the material; the Post reporter did not sound interested and the Times did not return the call. Manning decided instead to pass it to WikiLeaks, and on February 3 sent them the Iraq and Afghan War logs via Tor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelsea_Manning

much more at link.

 

[human]

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/obama-revealing-final-acts-article-1.2950771

BBM for emphasis

Huh? The sanctions were because of the Ukraine

 

[Elley Mae]

Huh? The sanctions were because of the Ukraine

huh?

Statement by the President on Actions in Response to Russian Malicious Cyber Activity and Harassment

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.go...ons-response-russian-malicious-cyber-activity

Today, I have ordered a number of actions in response to the Russian government&#8217;s aggressive harassment of U.S. officials and cyber operations aimed at the U.S. election.

All Americans should be alarmed by Russia&#8217;s actions. In October, my Administration publicized our assessment that Russia took actions intended to interfere with the U.S. election process.

I have issued an executive order that provides additional authority for responding to certain cyber activity that seeks to interfere with or undermine our election processes and institutions, or those of our allies or partners.