Sentencing and beyond- Jodi Arias General Discussion #3

[krkrjx]

Thinking more about the camera in the washer: I think that was a last-minute decision. I believe initial plan was she would keep the camera and the photos and that's why she was asking about protection from submersion, or whatever. I think the photos were to be souvenirs to be treasured by the killer. Yuk.

But then at the scene she realized that was too risky. She figured the camera being missing from the scene might raise eyebrows in her direction and she could not risk that camera ever being found in her possession so she had no choice but to discard it with the rest of the evidence. Then at the last minute she decided that posed risks as well because it might possibly be found some day, so she knew she had to leave the camera at the scene. She then decided to delete the photos--I don't think deletion was in her original plan--and to make sure the camera did not have any of her blood on it (she realized she had cut herself during her attack and was bleeding) she tossed it into the washer with the sheets and towels. She added bleach to eliminate all blood evidence from everything.

I still think the camera could have ended up wadded in the bundle of sheets accidentally but even if it was deliberate I do not think it was planned in advance. I think it became necessary, along with deletion of photos, due to some aspects of the crime not playing out as they had in her dreams, to wit, Travis escaping from the shower and causing a mess that she had not planned on and also her having to work so much harder to annihilate him that she injured herself and got her blood on the camera.

JMO

 

[ElleElle]

I do not think the killer planned in advance to put the camera in the washer. In any premeditated crime there are probably crime-in-progress or immediate aftermath details that have not gone exactly as planned and require spur-of-the-moment decisions and I think it more likely the camera in the washer was either that or an accident.

Killer probably asked about coverage in case of submersion because she planned in advance to take shower photos and was thinking things could get intense and thus wetter than would be normally expected. Or possibly her advance planning involved tossing all evidence in a lake somewhere although that seems less likely because I can't figure why she would want to ensure he had insurance coverage of a damaged camera if she was planning on him being dead by the time the damage was discovered.

JMO

I think went in the washer by mistake on her part as well. I bet she was looking for it and gave up because time was running out, and she had to leave before the roomies came home and RB wondering where she is.

 

[ElleElle]

Psychopathy as other personality disorders, are on a continuum, there are varying degrees, severe versus not so severe. Depending on the degree or where they are on the continuum, nurture in the life of the child can make a huge difference. Maybe that's why we see psychopaths as physicians, attorneys and bankers, who live a normal life with families and never commit crimes of violence, or any crimes for that matter. I've ran into some successful attorneys that I would bet my life that they're psychopaths, cold, vacant eyes, etc. But they're successful and have families. I really don't know what women see in them though with their cold eyes ... oh, wait $$$ signs?

Hare’s test is simple: a list of 20 criteria, each given a score of 0 (if it doesn’t apply to the person), 1 (if it partially applies) or 2 (if it fully applies). The list in full is:

• glibness and superficial charm - JA
• grandiose sense of self-worth - JA
• pathological lying, cunning/manipulative - JA
• lack of remorse, emotional shallowness - JA
• callousness and lack of empathy - JA
• unwillingness to accept responsibility for actions - JA
• a tendency to boredom - JA
• a parasitic lifestyle - JA
• a lack of realistic long-term goals - JA
• impulsivity - JA
• irresponsibility - JA
• lack of behavioural control - JA
• behavioural problems in early life - JA
• juvenile delinquency - JA
• criminal versatility - JA
• a history of “revocation of conditional release” (ie broken parole) - ?
• multiple marriages, and promiscuous sexual behaviour.- JA

A pure, prototypical psychopath would score 40. A score of 30 or more qualifies for a diagnosis of psychopathy. Hare says: “A friend of mine, a psychiatrist, once said: ‘Bob, when I meet someone who scores 35 or 36, I know these people really are different.’ The ones we consider to be alien are the ones at the upper end.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/10737827/Psychopaths-how-can-you-spot-one.html

 

[wasnt_me]

The creepiest photo was at Havasu falls when she had her hands around TA's neck.

I never thought of them as "man's hands" though. The fingers are long and bony.

It just seems weird that TH would be commenting on JA's hands at all, especially if he was going to get his information wrong.

Have you ever seen female gymnasts' hands? From swinging bars, their arms go down to, like, their knees and their hands are disproportionately long. Unlike Jodi's, these are hands that work very hard.

The blood spatter "librarian" (I do admire her, so that's not meant to be disparaging) mostly keeps her hands on her lap, but all of a sudden, they peeked out. Woah!

The creepiest thing about that photo is the photoshopped person behind them. Someone is somehow missing from the photo, but the person's shoulder, thigh, or whatever body part it is remains.

http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/art...ATES/s615/Jodi-Arias-and-Travis-Alexander.jpg

Somebody tell me what that body part is behind Jodi's head! It freaks me out!

Thinking more about the camera in the washer: I think that was a last-minute decision. I believe initial plan was she would keep the camera and the photos and that's why she was asking about protection from submersion, or whatever. I think the photos were to be souvenirs to be treasured by the killer. Yuk.

But then at the scene she realized that was too risky. She figured the camera being missing from the scene might raise eyebrows in her direction and she could not risk that camera ever being found in her possession so she had no choice but to discard it with the rest of the evidence. Then at the last minute she decided that posed risks as well because it might possibly be found some day, so she knew she had to leave the camera at the scene. She then decided to delete the photos--I don't think deletion was in her original plan--and to make sure the camera did not have any of her blood on it (she realized she had cut herself during her attack and was bleeding) she tossed it into the washer with the sheets and towels. She added bleach to eliminate all blood evidence from everything.

I still think the camera could have ended up wadded in the bundle of sheets accidentally but even if it was deliberate I do not think it was planned in advance. I think it became necessary, along with deletion of photos, due to some aspects of the crime not playing out as they had in her dreams, to wit, Travis escaping from the shower and causing a mess that she had not planned on and also her having to work so much harder to annihilate him that she injured herself and got her blood on the camera.

JMO

If she wanted trophies, why not bring her own memory card, slip it in the camera, remove it after the shoot, put his back in there, and then put it in the machine? Why did it have to be his camera? Why not bring her own? Why not buy one cash somewhere, so her own cameras are not involved?

This is my theory. She planned to get there at 4am, maybe 3am depending on daylight savings time. I don't know how that works Yreka time. Did she gain or lose an hour? Anyways, probably kill him and head straight to Utah, making her only 6 or 7 hours late, which can be explained by her alibi she'd set up that she wanted to see Dead Valley or she was sleeping somewhere. She couldn't do that because a roommate was there when she got there. She had no choice but to wait. Waiting meant devising a new scheme to get Travis in a vulnerable position because she was no longer arriving at his bedtime for him to be tired and possibly asleep. The shower became the way to do it. She used his camera so he'd feel safe that the pics would never be released. She probably promised to leave straight after the shoot.

Maybe she wanted to do the shoot at 4am, but again, the roommate was home. The roommate really threw a kink in it, I think.

I think went in the washer by mistake on her part as well. I bet she was looking for it and gave up because time was running out, and she had to leave before the roomies came home and RB wondering where she is.

If she started the wash, she would have heard it -- unless she was back upstairs and somehow didn't hear it banging around.

 

[Tiger09]

I always thought Travis had his leg wrapped around her and that was his knee.

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[samspace070]

Snapped is showing the two part episode of the Jodi Arias right now began at 11:00 CST

 

[ElleElle]

The creepiest thing about that photo is the photoshopped person behind them. Someone is somehow missing from the photo, but the person's shoulder, thigh, or whatever body part it is remains.

http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/art...ATES/s615/Jodi-Arias-and-Travis-Alexander.jpg

Somebody tell me what that body part is behind Jodi's head! It freaks me out!



If she wanted trophies, why not bring her own memory card, slip it in the camera, remove it after the shoot, put his back in there, and then put it in the machine? Why did it have to be his camera? Why not bring her own? Why not buy one cash somewhere, so her own cameras are not involved?

This is my theory. She planned to get there at 4am, maybe 3am depending on daylight savings time. I don't know how that works Yreka time. Did she gain or lose an hour? Anyways, probably kill him and head straight to Utah, making her only 6 or 7 hours late, which can be explained by her alibi she'd set up that she wanted to see Dead Valley or she was sleeping somewhere. She couldn't do that because a roommate was there when she got there. She had no choice but to wait. Waiting meant devising a new scheme to get Travis in a vulnerable position because she was no longer arriving at his bedtime for him to be tired and possibly asleep. The shower became the way to do it. She used his camera so he'd feel safe that the pics would never be released. She probably promised to leave straight after the shoot.

Maybe she wanted to do the shoot at 4am, but again, the roommate was home. The roommate really threw a kink in it, I think.



If she started the wash, she would have heard it -- unless she was back upstairs and somehow didn't hear it banging around.

BBM ~ Good theory! I can't seem to remember a roommate being home, though? Wouldn't they have heard her? Or, was she that sneaky?

I believe she started the wash on her way out the door, when she was in her "fog".

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Has anyone heard that the reason no one has heard a peep from the butcheress is because she had a baby recently? It is all over the web with a pic of a little baby girl that I swear I have seen before. :thinking: E.S. is the dummy who posted this BS so go figure. I had just posted the screencap but deleted it because of the pic.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I am curious why the Alexanders are still raising money? I just popped over to the state page, and notice it is still ongoing even though the trial is over and they were granted restitution by the courts for their travel expenses. I hope people are not still giving money now, and if they are that they have plenty to spare for themselves first. The Alexanders have received a lot in donations over the past few years, and there are many other worthier causes at this stage IMO.

 

[RickshawFan]

I am curious why the Alexanders are still raising money? I just popped over to the state page, and notice it is still ongoing even though the trial is over and they were granted restitution by the courts for their travel expenses. I hope people are not still giving money now, and if they are that they have plenty to spare for themselves first. The Alexanders have received a lot in donations over the past few years, and there are many other worthier causes at this stage IMO.

The civil suit hasn't happened yet. Lawyers for that will be very expensive, as will investigators to ferret out the wads of $$$$ that Jodi's been hiding from the law.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

The civil suit hasn't happened yet. Lawyers for that will be very expensive, as will investigators to ferret out the wads of $$$$ that Jodi's been hiding from the law.

They should hire an attorney that doesn't charge unless they get a payout, or find someone willing to work pro bono on a high profile case then, however I notice some of the donations are for a holiday to Cancun, when is enough enough? When Katiecoolady started the donations drive for them before the trial it was appropriate and made perfect sense, however the fact that it is ongoing is no longer right. They can't milk it forever, and frankly that's what it looks like they are doing now.

 

[wasnt_me]

I always thought Travis had his leg wrapped around her and that was his knee.

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I had thought so at first, but if you look at how they are sitting, JA is on his lap. If she's not on his lap, that makes his torso SUPER long and twisted because she appears to be in the nook of his left shoulder. And if it's a knee, it's awfully smooth, and there appears to be a collar bone contour in it that knees don't have. According to the shower pics, Travis didn't shave his legs--unless he was being that snell character.....

 

[Tiger09]

Maybe someone is sitting to JA's left. But that's a big knee.

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[wasnt_me]

BBM ~ Good theory! I can't seem to remember a roommate being home, though? Wouldn't they have heard her? Or, was she that sneaky?

I believe she started the wash on her way out the door, when she was in her "fog".

Was she that sneaky? She told Travis she used to sleep on his sofa and leave before he got up. I assume Zach never caught her doing that, Naps never gave her away, so yeah, she's that sneaky.

So it seems to me that Enrique is one day off on when things happened. He said Thursday (June 5th) was when things seemed strange in the house. He has to mean Wednesday, June 4th. On that day, he says the morning was normal, but when he got home, the front door was uncharacteristically locked, the furniture was moved and the floor cleaner was out. (I wonder if that checked that floor cleaner for blood...anyways...)

This leads me to believe that Enrique was home the night of June 3rd into the morning of June 4th -- because he said the morning was normal.

Zach could have been there, but I get the impression that he had stayed at the house he'd been sitting while his girlfriend's parents were out of town. What's weird is Zach's assertion that he was at home from 3 to about 4pm on June 4th. He should know that he was because 1, it was his day off, and 2, he had to take the rental back and clean the house he was sitting. So I'd think he'd remember which day all three things happened. That, to me, means Travis and Jodi were still in the bedroom doing their sex tape and pictures. Zach did NOT note Naps being restricted from upstairs. He did note the floor cleaner was out, but Flores didn't write whether Zach noticed that between 3 and 4pm or if it was 9pm when he returned home again. It could be the 3-4pm time frame because Flores writes it before he writes that Zach returned home again around 9pm.

Enrique might be the only roommate Jodi never met and might not have known his name to sleuth out his schedule beforehand. I believe he'd JUST moved in.

What I wonder is--Enrique says he got home around 6pm. Jodi couldn't have cleaned all that up, cleaned herself up, and gotten out of there within 20 minutes. It doesn't say how long Enrique remained at the house until his girlfriend came to take him to Temple. I wonder if Jodi was in the house with Enrique, hiding until he left again or if the screen was off the office window because she slipped out of the house while Enrique was in there. That would explain why Travis' office was locked. I see no reason for her to lock the office. It wasn't the crime scene. But she could have locked it if she was hiding in there when she heard Enrique return home. He didn't indicate hearing a washer or dryer running either, but I don't know if he was asked.

I gotta say Enrique couldn't have gotten home at 6pm on the dot. I just can't see Jodi having that kind of time -- unless the clock on the camera was wrong. To figure that out, I guess we'd need to know how far, in time, the distance is to Kingston, AZ. (Or whatever the name of the place is that her cell phone came on a hit a tower.) Assuming she drove straight that way after the murder, we could guesstimate when she left the murder scene.

 

[Tiger09]

It's gotta be Kingman, AZ that her phone hit a tower on. It's 3 hrs away. ... and not too far on the map from Vegas. I'm not from the area, but I'm going to hypothesize with all the collective theories etc that... well my theory is that Gus Searcy knows a lot more than he's been letting on.

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[knt]

Has anyone heard that the reason no one has heard a peep from the butcheress is because she had a baby recently? It is all over the web with a pic of a little baby girl that I swear I have seen before. :thinking: E.S. is the dummy who posted this BS so go figure. I had just posted the screencap but deleted it because of the pic.

Can you provide more information? I don't know who E.S. is and I don't see anything on the web about it?

 

[Tiger09]

I want to see this

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[samspace070]

The civil suit hasn't happened yet. Lawyers for that will be very expensive, as will investigators to ferret out the wads of $$$$ that Jodi's been hiding from the law.

Exactly, that is why I donated. I don't want JA making any money that the Alexanders deserve.

 

[katydid23]

Over on the killer's fan site, they seem very excited about one of the parts of their appeal. Apparently they are blaming Nurmi for not investigating the partial bloody boot print coming out of the shower. They think it proves that a male was there while the blood was still damp and it may set her free. UGH

 

[Hope4More]

Over on the killer's fan site, they seem very excited about one of the parts of their appeal. Apparently they are blaming Nurmi for not investigating the partial bloody boot print coming out of the shower. They think it proves that a male was there while the blood was still damp and it may set her free. UGH

Someone with a strong stomach and an appreciation for dark humor should write a book about how trials of psychopaths seem to attract the unbalanced.